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KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

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Update #61: KotC 2 Version 1.43 Upgrades The Barbarian, Rogue And Monk!​


Hello everyone! The latest version of KotC 2 is version 1.43. It can be downloaded here for both Windows and macOS. It can also be downloaded on Steam and GOG. In the past month, I've been focusing mainly on the upgrade of three character classes: the Barbarian, Rogue and Monk. I've also spent time on the upgrade of the code in order to accelerate gameplay.

Here are the details of the upgrade of each class.

KotC 2 Barbarian Class Upgrade​



The main change to the class is the addition of Spirit Animals, which are supernatural abilities that the Barbarian can activate a number of times per day equal to Strength Modifier + Dexterity Modifier + Constitution Modifier. You must select two Spirit Animals at level 1 and you'll add one more Spirit Animal at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, eventually giving you access to six Spirit Animals.

Here's the list of available Spirit Animals, which can also be found on the Barbarian webpage:

  • Spirit Animal, Bear: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Activating this spirit grants you 50% Energy Damage Reduction (all energy types) for 3 + Constitution Modifier rounds.
  • Spirit Animal, Bull: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Activating this spirit allows you to take one extra Bull Rush, Slide, Pull or Swap combat manoeuvre as a free action each round for 3 + Constitution modifier rounds.
  • Spirit Animal, Cobra: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Upon activation, you gain the Tumble ability for 3 + Dexterity Modifier rounds, allowing you to avoid enemy attacks of opportunity while moving. This version of Tumble does not prevent you from wearing Medium or Heavy Armour.
  • Spirit Animal, Crocodile: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Upon activation, you gain the [Water] subtype for 3 + Dexterity Modifier rounds, allowing you to fight very well while Underwater or Swimming. You also receive a +2 bonus to Attack Rolls even if you're not underwater or swimming.
  • Spirit Animal, Eagle: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Upon activation, you gain the [Flying] subtype for 3 + Dexterity Modifier rounds, allowing you to fly to areas of different altitude as well as ignore ground-based terrain effects.
  • Spirit Animal, Elephant: This is a Standard Action supernatural ability. Activating this spirit allows you to deal sonic damage in a 20' cone as a Breath Weapon. The damage is equal to 1d4 points per level + half of your Strength Modifier. A Reflex Saving Throw reduces the damage by 50%. The Difficulty Class is based on your Constitution. Enemies who fail their save receive the condition Shaken for 1d4+1 rounds. After using this ability, you must wait for two rounds for the ability to recharge, allowing you to use it again.
  • Spirit Animal, Jaguar: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Activating this spirit grants you the Pounce ability for the current turn, allowing you to perform a Full Attack at the end of a Charge.
  • Spirit Animal, Porpoise: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Upon activation, you gain the Blindsight ability for 3 + Constitution Modifier rounds, allowing your attacks to ignore all Concealment, Invisibility and Mirror Images, and giving you immunity to the Blinded condition.
  • Spirit Animal, Rhinoceros: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Activating this spirit grants you an increase in Damage Reduction equal to your Strength Modifier for 3 + Constitution Modifier rounds.
  • Spirit Animal, Satyr: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Activating this spirit grants you a +10 bonus to your Willpower Saving Throws for 3 + Constitution Modifier rounds. You also get a +2 bonus to Armour Class.
  • Spirit Animal, Scorpion: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. For the current turn, you gain an extra attack with your main (primary) weapon. If you are fighting with two manufactured weapons, you instead gain two extra attacks, one with each hand.
  • Spirit Animal, Spider: This is a Free Action supernatural ability. Upon activation, you gain immunity to movement-hampering effects for 3 + Dexterity Modifier rounds. You also receive a +10 bonus to Speed and 20% Concealment.
Barbarians can also select the following new feats:

  • Extended Spirit Animals: The duration of your Bear, Bull, Crocodile, Cobra, Eagle, Porpoise, Rhinoceros, Satyr and Spider Spirit Animals increases by two rounds.
  • Fast Spirit Animal Elephant: You activate your Spirit Animal Elephant with a Move Action rather than a Standard Action.
  • Improved Spirit Animal Elephant: The radius of the Breath Weapon produced by your Spirit Animal Elephant increases by 50%, from 20' to 30'.
  • Breath Weapon Shaping: Your Breath Weapon no longer affects allies in the area of effect.
  • Stilled Spirit Animals: You can activate your Spirit Animals silently and without moving. Consequently, you can activate a spirit animal even when you are subject to the effect of spells like Silence and Hold Person (Wizard). You can also activate a Spirit Animal even when you are using a Heavy or Tower Shield.

KotC 2 Rogue Class Upgrade​

During character creations, Rogues must now select a Rogue Specialisation option. You can choose between Assassin, Fencer, Ninja and Swashbuckler.

  • Rogue Specialisation, Assassin: As the focus of your extensive training, you have learnt secret killing techniques that work even against seemingly invulnerable opponents. You receive a +1 bonus to all Damage Rolls. Your Sneak Attack ability works even against targets that are immune to Critical Hits. The Sneak Attack damage against them is reduced to four-sided dice.
  • Rogue Specialisation, Fencer: As the focus of your extensive training, you have mastered the art of using thin swords like the Rapier and light weapons like the Short Sword to inflict a maximum amount of damage to your opponents. You receive the feat Weapon Finesse for free at level 1. In addition, you gain the Greater Weapon Finesse ability: whenever you're attacking with a Finesse or light weapon, and you're not Grappling, you apply your Dexterity Modifier to Damage Rolls instead of your Strength Modifier if your Dexterity Modifier is higher than your Strength Modifier.
  • Rogue Specialisation, Ninja: You are a Shinobi, a dreaded master of espionage, stealth, deception and assassination. Your exacting training grants you benefits related to your magical abilities. You receive a +2 bonus to Willpower Saving Throws. You get the feat Fast Spells for free at level 1. In addition, you gain one extra spell slot of each available spell level.

KotC 2 Rogue Specialisation, Swashbuckler​



Rogue Specialisation, Swashbuckler: The Swashbuckler is also known by many other names: Cavalier, Musketeer, Buccaneer, Marauder, Privateer, Freebooter, Treasure Hunter, Scoundrel, Rascal or Blackguard, to name but a few. The Swashbuckler is a jack-of-all-trades, a flamboyant fighter with enough guile to charm the unsuspecting and sufficient adroitness to pick locks and evade dangerous traps. This Rogue specialisation option is quite different from the others, as you will not gain any spell slots. However, you can still activate Wizard spell scrolls and wands containing a Wizard spell.

The following abilities are restricted to the Swashbuckler:

  • Insightful Strike: You gain the feat Weapon Finesse and you receive a bonus to Damage Rolls equal to your Intelligence Modifier on all Finesse attacks against targets not immune to Critical Hits, when you're not grappling.
  • Panache: If your Charisma Modifier is at least one, you gain a bonus on all Saving Throws and Initiative Rolls. This bonus is equal to your Charisma Modifier (after modifications).
  • Precise Swing: Your melee attacks, including attacks with a Reach weapon, ignore both Cover and Light Concealment.
  • Death Blow: You can perform a Coup De Grace as a Standard Action rather than a Full Round Action, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when doing so.
The following feats are restricted to the Swashbuckler:

  • Enhanced Sneak Attack: Your Sneak Attack damage increases by 1d6 points. Requires: Level 12.
  • Shake It Off I: Each round, the character gets a free saving throw to remove the following effects: blind, sleeping, fascinated, reduced, shaken, agony, bane, prayer, fatigued, sickened. The saving throw type and DC is the same as the original saving throw against the effect. If the effect resulted from a spell without a saving throw, the character gets a Fortitude save versus the normal spell DC. Effects that did not originate from a spell or SLA cannot be removed using Shake it Off. Effects in the list that were supposed to persist after the end of combat are automatically removed when combat ends. The Fighter character class also has access to this line of feats.
  • Shake It Off II: Same as Shake It Off I, but the character also gets saving throws against the following effects: dazed, held, slowed, confusion, berserk, hideous laughter, command, cowering, exhausted, baleful polymorph. Requires: Shake It Off I.
  • Shake It Off III: Same as Shake It Off II, but the character also gets saving throws against the following effects: stunned, dancing, controlled, dominated, cursed, malison, crushing despair, frailty, enfeeblement, nauseated. Requires: Shake It Off II.
  • Resistance I: The character gains Damage Reduction 1 / -. Requires: Level 6.
  • Resistance II: The character gains Damage Reduction 2 / -. Requires: Level 12, Resistance I.
  • Resistance III: The character gains Damage Reduction 3 / -. Requires: Level 18, Resistance II.

KotC 2 Monk Class Upgrade​

During character creation, Monks must now select a Monk Specialisation option. You can choose between the following options.

  • Monk Specialisation, Way Of The Candle: Your focus on pious meditation in a candlelit monastery has granted you profound insights into energy manipulation through mystical means. You receive a +1 bonus on all Damage Rolls. You also gain an Energy Shield personal-range Free Action supernatural ability, as the spell Energy Shield (Wizard). You can use this ability once per day from level 1 to 3, twice per day from level 4 to 6, three times per day from level 7 to 9, four times per day from level 10 to 12, five times per day from level 13 to 15, six times per day from level 16 to 18, and seven times per day from level 19.
  • Monk Specialisation, Way Of The Heavens: Your long and exacting training as an ascetic Whirling Dervish has granted you an extraordinary sense of balance, precision and speed. You receive the feat Weapon Finesse for free at level 1. In addition, you gain the Greater Weapon Finesse ability: whenever you're attacking with a Finesse or light weapon, and you're not grappling, you apply your Dexterity Modifier to Damage Rolls instead of your Strength Modifier if your Dexterity modifier is higher than your Strength modifier.
  • Monk Specialisation, Way Of The Oasis: Your past life as an ascetic Desert Monk has granted you deep insights into Fata Morganas and other mirages. You get a Mirror Image personal-range Free Action supernatural ability, as the Wizard spell Mirror Image. You can use this ability once per day from level 1 to 6, twice per day from level 7 to 12, three times per day from level 13 to 18, and four times per day from level 19.
  • Monk Specialisation, Way Of The Pillar: You have spent long periods of time living ascetically atop a stone pillar, like an ancient Stylite. As a result of this harsh lifestyle, your body has become extraordinarily robust. You receive the feat Toughness for free at level 1. Your Stunning Fist attack works even against targets that are immune to Critical Hits. In addition, your Stunning Fist attack benefits from a damage bonus equal to your level.
  • Monk Specialisation, Way Of The Seer: Like the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, you are a practitioner of the art of divination through dreamlike trances. Consequently, no enemy creature can hide from your sight. You receive a +1 bonus on all Attack Rolls. You also gain a True Seeing personal-range Free Action supernatural ability, as the spell True Seeing (Wizard). You can use this ability once per day from level 1 to 6, twice per day from level 7 to 12, three times per day from level 13 to 18, and four times per day from level 19.

KotC 2 Mage Knight Upgrade​

I'm planning to upgrade the Mage Knight character class, too. However, I don't think that it will have a specialisation option. I'm just planning to create a bunch of new feats for the class. I've got ideas for around 15 to 20 new Mage Knight feats.

Now, let's review the list of changes in versions 1.43 and 1.42.

Knights of the Chalice 2 Version 1.43​

  • Rogue upgrade: during character creation, you must now choose between Assassin, Fencer, Ninja and Swashbuckler. Each Rogue variant has cool benefits.
  • Monk upgrade: during character creation, you must now choose between Way of the Candle, Way of the Heavens, Way of the Oasis, Way of the Pillar, and Way of the Seer.
  • All the Rogues and Monks in Augury of Chaos and the Tutorial Adventure have been upgraded. However, I haven't upgraded the pre-created characters in the Character Roster yet, because I don't want to overwrite the player's file. I'll look into that soon.
  • Added the feat 'Dwarven Armour Training' for Dwarves. With this feat, you do not receive any penalty to Speed when wearing Medium or Heavy Armour. If you are a Samurai or you have the feat Divine Armour of the Champion, and you're wearing armour, you gain a bonus of +1 to your Armour Class, instead.
  • Added a new feat for the Barbarian: Stilled Spirit Animals. With that feat, your Spirit Animals are stilled and silenced automatically, and you can activate them even when using a Heavy Shield or Tower Shield.
  • Fixed AI issues with Energy Shield, Mass Energy Shield, and summon elemental spells. Also, enemies won't use Blinding Strike on someone who's blinded, or Stunning Fist on someone who's stunned. Also tweaked the AI for Break Enchantment / Greater Break Enchantment.
  • Fixed a bug with the Rogue losing the 'Improved Sneak Attack' ability when the sneak attack damage gets updated on level up. Obtained at level 4, Improved Sneak Attack allows the rogue's sneak attack to work when the enemy is Nauseated, Cursed, Confused, Slowed or Prone.
  • Fixed bugs with the Fighter's feat Precise Swing. Also clarified the meaning of 'light concealment' in the Precise Swing help entry.
  • Fixed a bug with the Monk getting concealment from the Empty Body ability even when holding a shield or wearing armour.
  • Fixed several errors in the in-game help system. Also added the help entries associated with each Rogue and Monk specialisation option, as well as extra information in the help entries about the Barbarian, Rogue, Monk, the feat Cleave, the feat Whirlwind Attack, controls out of combat, and the 'Alarmed' condition.
  • Added some code to accelerate gameplay in combat and elsewhere.
  • Updated the webpages for the KotC 2 Barbarian, Rogue, Monk, Paladin, Psychic Healer, Psychic Warrior, and the KotC 2 Download & Buy page at www.heroicfantasygames.com.

Knights of the Chalice 2 Version 1.42​

  • Upgraded the Barbarian class with the 12 Spirit Animals and several new feats: Extended Spirit Animals, Fast Spirit Animal Elephant, and Improved Spirit Animal Elephant. Barbarians with the Elephant Spirit Animal can also take the feat Breath Weapon Shaping (it will apply both to the Elephant Spirit Animal and the Drake's Breath Weapon). The Barbarian class now also gets the feat Die Hard for free at level 1, a bonus feat at level 2, two Rage uses per day from level 1 and more afterwards, and a higher Damage Reduction that increases to DR 10 by level 20. Also, entering a Rage now does not take any time at all. Previously, it was processed as a free action. The change means that you can enter a Rage and then use a free-action Spirit Animal power, and you'll still have your move action and standard action available this turn.
  • Improved the AI. Enemy Barbarians will be able to use their Spirit Animals correctly. Also, enemies will be able to take a swift combat manoeuvre, or a Death Knight Life Drain, immediately after a charge. Also, enemy Psychic Warriors will be able to use the Psionic Pounce power correctly.
  • All the Barbarians in Augury of Chaos and the Tutorial Adventure have been upgraded, so they have Spirit Animals and the other benefits of the class. However, I haven't upgraded the pre-created characters in the Character Roster yet, as I don't want to overwrite the player's file. I'll look into that.
  • I was also able to upgrade the Barbarian enemies in Dorateen's module Hearkenwold. The updated creatures will appear in the next version of the module, expected to be released by the end of summer. Thank you so much for your efforts and for this awesome adventure module, Dorateen!!
  • Reworked a lot of the code to improve gameplay speed during combat and elsewhere. You should be able to see a difference both while playing and when using the Module Editor.
  • Fixed a bug with the effect of the Druid's Earth Sphere on the spell Magic Stone.
  • Fixed a bug preventing you from unlocking Archmage mode Steam/GOG achievements when you have a Cloudtop or Guardian Half-Giant in the party. Please start a new game to obtain the achievements.
  • Fixed several bugs concerning the Paladin's spell Holy Sword. Also, the spell Holy Sword will now grant a +2 bonus to all Damage Rolls, increasing to +4 from level 17.
  • Fixed a bug with the Ratmen in the Low Sewers when you select the [Assassin] skill option. Also fixed a scrolling issue when you select that option.
  • Fixed a bug with the Creature Wizard applying the effect of some Barbarian and Samurai feats two times when creating a character or monster.
  • Fixed errors in the help entry for the Haste condition. Fixed errors in the spell descriptions for the Death Knight Life Drain and the spells associated with supernatural Cleric Domain Powers. Improved the help entry for Special Abilities with some details about supernatural and extraordinary abilities.
  • Fixed a bug with the Damage Reduction ability of the Barbarian and Samurai, and the feats that increase the DR.
  • Fixed a tooltip issue in the Level-Up screen.
  • In Augury of Chaos, when leaving the inn, any blood stains on the floor of the first level of the inn resulting from your battles will be cleared. Also added a script command to do this for any map of any module.

Next Steps for Knights of the Chalice 2​

In the coming month, I will probably focus on the new feats I'm planning to add to the game, as well as replies to forum messages and bug fixing. For the most part, the next development steps remain unchanged from the list presented in the previous update:

  • Reply to posts on the Steam Forum, GOG Forum and the website Forums, and fix any remaining bugs and issues in the game mentioned by the players on the forums or by email.
  • Work on the Kickstarter Social Goal promises. They include: custom spell effect sounds, the new Druid spells Vampiric Spores, Creeping Doom and Iron Grip, a new option to display spell icons during level-up, a new option to display the monster injury status rather than Hit Points, and a new option to distribute only 80% of Combat Experience Point awards.
  • Work on planned features: the upgrade of the Mage Knight character class, the iconised combat actions menu, newfeats (including epic feats), new subraces, new spells, new Wizard familiars, new items, and new sound effects. The new spells I'm interested in include Wail of the Banshee, Mass Hideous Laughter, Reach, Mass Reach, Fly, Mass Fly, Vampiric Spores, and Creeping Doom.
  • Hire a graphic designer to create new sprites, new maps and other types of artwork.
  • Work on the three upcoming adventure modules. Create the new world map & new dungeon maps.
As always, if you find bugs or if you have any feedback, thoughts and suggestions, please feel free to let me know here, or in the Forums, or by email at enquiries@heroicfantasygames.com.

Thank You For Your Awesome Support, Legendary Heroes of the Realm! Enjoy!! :)
 

Humanophage

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Is something done about scrolls in later versions? They cram up inventory and it is getting unbearable towards the late mid-game. Bags aren't helping. I wish there was some separate interface for them. Or at least that they had icons on top so they looked different.
 
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Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Scrolls that are used no longer clog up your inventory. Don’t HAVE to save them for scribing - maybe you’ll find more.

Rogues are especially fond of helping you clear inventory space.
 

Jermu

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Quite sure there is no benefit for skipping village but I have never tested it

middle-late game you can just sell scrolls that you are pretty sure you are not going to use or spam em in random encounters
 

Darth Canoli

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Monk subclasses are not too useful other than way of the heavens (dex to damage rolls)
Rogue on the other hand has 3 very good options (all but ninja)

Way of the pillar = stunning fist works on everyone and with increased damage.
Way of the Seer = free action True Seeing, aka the most powerful buff for fighters at least on chapters 3 and 4 + some extra fights like the crones.
 

Jermu

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Monk subclasses are not too useful other than way of the heavens (dex to damage rolls)
Rogue on the other hand has 3 very good options (all but ninja)

Way of the pillar = stunning fist works on everyone and with increased damage.
Way of the Seer = free action True Seeing, aka the most powerful buff for fighters at least on chapters 3 and 4 + some extra fights like the crones.

I have done 1 unarmed monk playthrough and it was kinda shit so if buffed stunned fist monk is better than pre patch monk using weapons I would be surprised.

yeah yeah true seeing is great but my point was that compared to dex to dmg its not that close of an choice. There are obviously few fights that require true seeing if u are doing ironman attempts such as coffin vampire and spider queen but u get few true seeing items late game anyway (helm + blindsight amulet) and wasting 1 spell for few fights so your grappler can pin some1 is not that big of an deal compared to benefit of dex to dmg for the whole playthrough.

If u are going for str monk for some reason then sure then u actually have an decision for subclass.
 
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Darth Canoli

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I can't find the messages about oversized dual-wielding with a reach weapon in your main hand but it's a feature, Pierre is going to put on the help somewhere, soon.

If anything, it makes the fighter even more powerful.

Main hand : +5 dispelling Reach weapon
Secondary +1, x3/5 crit high damage weapon with barbed and weapon damage enhancements.
 

Humanophage

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I started my first Archmage playthrough:
half-giant fighter
mantis fighter
half-giant psychic warrior
halfling bishop
elf psionicist
human fire wizard
-
water elemental storm warrior
mantis druid (to be replaced with Pizarra later on)

The two fighers, the psychic warrior, and the storm warrior are all wearing reach weapons. Even early on, the combined damaged from AOOs is quite impressive. For now, the half-giant fighter is much stronger than the mantis (way more damage, no to hit penalty, better tripping), but I hope wielding stat-boosting weapons will compensate the mantis. Having additional immunities will also be useful.

I am apprehensive about using a bishop instead of a psychic healer, but evidently the domains can make for pretty powerful spells. Psychic healer was very useful with all the flexibility and the abundant spells. The Warlock was also great.
The psychic warrior is experimental as well, but he should be good for grappling. He synergises with other psionics users because you can transfer PP from them.

Paying for level-ups is inhuman though. It's so costly I can't even afford to level up my whole party. Feels like a cockblock.
 
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Dorateen

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I uploaded a video to showcase some of the new content that will be appearing as part of the Edinmoor adventure in the next version of Hearkenwold. While exploring the estate of a dubious minstrel, the party runs into some disagreeable fellows. The fight went badly because of enemy mages acting before our cleric's turn. Still, our paladin was able to survive the battle as the last man standing.



I'm hoping to have the updated module ready by the end of this month, or early September at the latest. Pierre helped me adjust all Rogue and Monk enemies to the latest class upgrades, and these will be present along with other improvements to the module.
 

Humanophage

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Do people actually play with paying for level-up on? You can't upgrade all of your party even if you sell almost all of the items early on. I think it's probably too much for me; I'll consider myself defeated and I'll restart with it being turned off.
 
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Jermu

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Do people actually play with paying for level-up on? You can't upgrade all of your party even if you sell almost all of the items early on. I think it's probably too much for me; I'll consider myself defeated and I'll restart with it being turned off.

For first playthrough without knowledge regarding classes/spells/encounters and other meta shit archmage with all the settings is probably very brutal so I saved it for my second playthrough. If I could play again first time I would probably do hard-archmage run with gold for level option turned off. Hard is probably the most reasonable option unless you know to pick couple key classes.

The party you listed should be very solid for casual archmage run and is pretty close to my ironman setup which is fighter, rogue, bard, bishop, wizard and psionicist. If I was tryharding I would probably bring 2 or 3 psionicists but I dont find that enjoyable.

Been grinding ironman on and off for 6 months now and my strategy is to sell pretty much every item before losing all the gear so I can get enough levels for
crypt
(king Arhur sword is the prime example). After
crypt
money is not really a problem even for levels but you might need to postpone crafting a little bit.

You also get more xp when underleveled.
 
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Humanophage

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Do people actually play with paying for level-up on? You can't upgrade all of your party even if you sell almost all of the items early on. I think it's probably too much for me; I'll consider myself defeated and I'll restart with it being turned off.

For first playthrough without knowledge regarding classes/spells/encounters and other meta shit archmage with all the settings is probably very brutal so I saved it for my second playthrough. If I could play again first time I would probably do hard-archmage run with gold for level option turned off. Hard is probably the most reasonable option unless you know to pick couple key classes.

The party you listed should be very solid for casual archmage run and is pretty close to my ironman setup which is fighter, rogue, bard, bishop, wizard and psionicist. If I was tryharding I would probably bring 2 or 3 psionicists but I dont find that enjoyable.

Been grinding ironman on and off for 6 months now and my strategy is to sell pretty much every item before losing all the gear so I can get enough levels for
crypt
(king Arhur sword is the prime example). After
crypt
money is not really a problem even for levels but you might need to postpone crafting a little bit.

You also get more xp when underleveled.
That is an interesting thought about not levelling up to maximise your experience gain. Perhaps it's more efficient in the long run to abstain from levelling up except before rest in very tough fights.

I did a 3/4 playthrough on Enchanter (Hard), but my party was getting a bit too dominant whilst at the same time having some annoying bottlenecks and build mistakes, so I decided to restart on Archmage. It actually had a bard and a rogue, but I found the bard wasn't doing much beyond casting silence, a single buff, and confusion, then just standing there doing nothing. Probably should have made a more close combat-oriented bard. On the other hand, the songs are quite useful, it's just that you hoard them too much. The rogue was all right, but ultimately like an inferior fighter. I liked the self-cast for true seeing, but I thought a mantis fighter in a robe of eyes would probably be more useful. The dialogue options were mainly duplicated anyway. Meanwhile, the fighter was seriously overwhelming and I wish I had more of them.

How useful is the bishop? I found the low daily limit on spells very limiting compared to psionics. I was also too late to notice that Smite is only useful for Clerics, since there is a sharp level limit on Bishop smite, rendering the Reach domain questionable.
 
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Jermu

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I did a 3/4 playthrough on Enchanter (Hard), but my party was getting a bit too dominant whilst at the same time having some annoying bottlenecks and build mistakes, so I decided to restart on Archmage. It actually had a bard and a rogue, but I found the bard wasn't doing much beyond casting silence, a single buff, and confusion, then just standing there doing nothing. Probably should have made a more close combat-oriented bard. On the other hand, the songs are quite useful, it's just that you hoard them too much. The rogue was all right, but ultimately like an inferior fighter. I liked the self-cast for true seeing, but I thought a mantis fighter in a robe of eyes would probably be more useful. The dialogue options were mainly duplicated anyway. Meanwhile, the fighter was seriously overwhelming and I wish I had more of them.

How useful is the bishop? I found the low daily limit on spells very limiting compared to psionics.

Bard Im rolling full spell build with little bit bow potential. Songs are useful whole game and spells are great they fall off little bit end game. Pipes of pain does great cc + dmg early and single aria of chaos ends quite many encounters and is still useful end game. I have tried hybrid bards with either melee/bow but after early game their dmg is bad since you cant afford too many feats for melee combat and by allocating stats into str you are missing daily uses for songs/spells.

Rogue Im mainly using for dialogues and early game utility to make ironman grinding more bearable. Combat potential is not even close to fighter after wade-in so for harder end game encounters his job is pretty much to cast true seeing on my fighter.

Bishop is imo better than cleric at least for early game but it is quite overwhelming for newer player to pick out domains. Domains are very flexible you have shitload of options to build bishop whatever u wish.

And it is pointless to compare other classes to psionicist it is the strongest class by quite a large margin (wizard comes to closest). But yeah for early game many casters such as bishop/wizard are just passing turns since you dont have enough spells or other resources.
 
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Humanophage

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Jermu Does the Bishop have a fixed number of spell slots unaffected by wisdom modifier? The description only mentions other classes. Meaning they should be probably doing charisma instead of wisdom?

Also, what's your view on warlocks? I thought Pizarra was extremely powerful. You can easily cast high-level buffs like spell preparation for free, then focus on the big wizard spells.
 
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Mauman

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Jermu Does the Bishop have a fixed number of spell slots unaffected by wisdom modifier? The description only mentions other classes. Meaning they should be probably doing charisma instead of wisdom?

Also, what's your view on warlocks? I thought Pizarra was extremely powerful. You can easily cast high-level buffs like spell preparation for free, then focus on the big wizard spells.
Bishop spells are strictly decided by wisdom just like a cleric (with the exception if you take the magic domain which is a decent choice for a bishop but a bad one for a cleric).

As for the Bishop vs Cleric debate, a bishop can be great and all but a cleric with the reach domain and improved sound burst/holy smite feats hits INCREDIBLY hard, does damage and CC at the same time, and with a stupidly huge AoE to boot.

I agree with Jermu about Wade-in issues. I personally think that the Swashbuckler would be a great candidate for a third wade-in class. Thematically it fits because a swashbuckler is a highly mobile type of person who takes on multiple foes at once (example - Zorro). Mechanically I think it would be balanced because we now have the SAD Dex and Strength gods of death that are a Heavens monk and a strength based fighter. Even with the (reduced) sneak attacks, a swashbuckler is extremely MAD and can't quite compare to the former 2 in the death dealing department.
 
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Jermu

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Jermu

Also, what's your view on warlocks? I thought Pizarra was extremely powerful. You can easily cast high-level buffs like spell preparation for free, then focus on the big wizard spells.

Better that sorc because

1. psionicist spells are better than cleric
2. sorc shares spell uses for cleric+wiz spells

my go-to strategy for companions is to pick mantis druid, do 7man until sorc and replace sorc with piza. Sorc I save xp for crafting and craft after I get piza. My buddy who grinds ironman with same party picks fire druid which is better for early game.

For Bishop I dump charisma and focus on wis, dex, con. Most of my ironman runs are decided by the initiative rolls so pumping dex for key classes (grappler/wiz/psio) is kinda mandatory. Thats very frustrating to grind to middle-late game and then get fucked by initiative rolls and there is pretty much nothing you can do about it since for some encounters even giving 1 turn for enemy to cast kills/disables 50-75% of your party.
 
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Darth Canoli

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Also, what's your view on warlocks? I thought Pizarra was extremely powerful. You can easily cast high-level buffs like spell preparation for free, then focus on the big wizard spells.

Warlock is good but it's worse than a pure wizard and worse than a pure Psionicist because you need more attributes to make it work.
So you'll end up with less spells slots than a pure caster and with weaker DC.

Also, even if i'm no a big fan of KOTC 2 Sorcerers, they get wizard's transformations, not Warlocks.
 

ionic atomic

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Feb 21, 2017
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Bard Im rolling full spell build with little bit bow potential. Songs are useful whole game and spells are great they fall off little bit end game. Pipes of pain does great cc + dmg early and single aria of chaos ends quite many encounters and is still useful end game. I have tried hybrid bards with either melee/bow but after early game their dmg is bad since you cant afford too many feats for melee combat and by allocating stats into str you are missing daily uses for songs/spells.
Late game the bard can be used as a spell-like ability chassis; their DC depends on CHA. Acorns of EQ can do decent work in castle mage duels. Necklace of fireballs should be enough to disrupt treant's spells. There are also bracers allowing a 1/day cast of the prismatic void for sale in Finchbury, but that comes at the expense of the arms slot. I think

What I find the most interesting is who is the best user of cleric's spellbook, from a purely powergaming perspective. Is it even worth running one in lieu of another wiz/psi?
 
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Does this not have a necromancer class then, since the milestone wasn't hit on KS?
 

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