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LARPFEST

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I'm for burning Terra not just for the lulz.

Terra is the heart and mind of the Human Empire. It is the cradle of humanity, a symbol of communality and a common origin.

It is also a single point of failure.

If Terra is destroyed and humanity is free to expand, new and wonderful things can be created. Independence of governance, creed and thought will only make humanity stronger.

Burn the past, break the walls of Terra influence that limit humanity and truly spread amongst the stars!
 

Storyfag

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Yaar Podshipnik said:
I'm for burning Terra not just for the lulz.

Terra is the heart and mind of the Human Empire. It is the cradle of humanity, a symbol of communality and a common origin.

It is also a single point of failure.

If Terra is destroyed and humanity is free to expand, new and wonderful things can be created. Independence of governance, creed and thought will only make humanity stronger.

Burn the past, break the walls of Terra influence that limit humanity and truly spread amongst the stars!

Never liked that train of thought, ever since Asimov introduced it. Technology is what limits humanity. The sole thing to do so, in fact. Once we manage to reverse-engineer inertialess drives, we should be able to expand beyond the Milky Way...
 
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Storyfag said:
Yaar Podshipnik said:
I'm for burning Terra not just for the lulz.

Terra is the heart and mind of the Human Empire. It is the cradle of humanity, a symbol of communality and a common origin.

It is also a single point of failure.

If Terra is destroyed and humanity is free to expand, new and wonderful things can be created. Independence of governance, creed and thought will only make humanity stronger.

Burn the past, break the walls of Terra influence that limit humanity and truly spread amongst the stars!

Never liked that train of thought, ever since Asimov introduced it. Technology is what limits humanity. The sole thing to do so, in fact. Once we manage to reverse-engineer inertialess drives, we should be able to expand beyond the Milky Way...

But Terra (and Mars, so burn it too) does limit humanity technologically! The existence of astronomican, the centralization of knowledge repositories hinders the ability of humans to flourish.

Also, where did Asimov introduced this idea? As far as I remember, Earth got depopulated and irradiated quite early in the robot stories saga, and is pretty much just a myth during the Foundation series.

The evils of centralization, and dependence on one planet is more of a Herbert thing in my opinion. And the whole train of thought I've outlined is pretty much the Golden Path.
 

Storyfag

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Yaar Podshipnik said:
Also, where did Asimov introduced this idea? As far as I remember, Earth got depopulated and irradiated quite early in the robot stories saga, and is pretty much just a myth during the Foundation series.

And that's where Asimov introduced it (though Herbert might have been first... I'm known to have gotten my dates wrong on more than one occasion!). Only Earth's demise allowed it's colonies to spread throughout the Galaxy and ultimately form the Empire from the Foundation series.

While it kind of made sense with Herbert (Arrakis and the Spice were a real and severe limit to Mankind), I fail to see why the assumptions of Asimov, or yours, would prove true. Yes, the light of the Astronomican is presently humanity's limit. But is it presently operating in that capacity at all? I somehow doubt that, what with the Emperor's death and all... And we don't have to destroy Terra to adopt inertialess drives. Thanks to the Void Dragon half the Imperium is using them already!
 
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The Foundation novels preclude Dune about 10 years.

I did get a feeling that centralization wasn't what limited humanity in Asimov's books. In my opinion it was the extreme reliance on robots. When they shut themselves off humanity had to fend for itself and took to the stars.

In later books, reliance on Trantor was indeed a limiting factor.

Now, back on topic. Regardless of all of the Storyfag's arguments I'm still for baiting and burning Terra. Another reason in favor is that once it dies as a symbol and center of power of old empire, it can be remade as a symbol of new empire. An epitome of human sacrifice and ingenuity. Completely devoid of any practical and strategical value, and definitely without any power. Make it into a legend and a warning.

That is, of course, assuming that humanity will not die terrible death due to us fucking everything up again :smug:

EDIT: oh you sneaky post editor you Storyfag...

As I said, Terra has to be wiped so that it serves as a warning against centralization. I don't want anyone to get an idea that humanity can be ruled from one place. Nor do I like an idea that humanity should be absolutely undivided - more than one Empire of Mankind would be nice.

Also, I said to burn the planet when Tyrannids feast upon it. If all goes well we can destroy both the Hive Fleet and Void Dragon and his servants.
 

Storyfag

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Yaar Podshipnik said:
As I said, Terra has to be wiped so that it serves as a warning against centralization. I don't want anyone to get an idea that humanity can be ruled from one place. Nor do I like an idea that humanity should be absolutely undivided - more than one Empire of Mankind would be nice.

So that is where we fundamentally disagree. Mankind should be united. Diverse, but still anwsering to one voice.
 

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I'm with Yaar here, Terra must die so that humanity can live. The idea of a gigantic empire speaking for all humanity has always been repugnant to me anyway.
 

Kayerts

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Regarding Iblis's intentions, I have a few ideas:

The Swarmlord lay prostrate in front of the Norn Queen’s spawning pools. The backlash from Slaanesh’s destruction had severed its synaptic link for too long and allowed the voices to take over. It dreamed of ancient ruins under the searing, yellow radiation of a sickly sun. It felt the ghosts who spoke in its mind swarm around it, whispering the promise of liberation. It saw an old man, bent with regret, being carried by a lithe, white-dressed figure towards a monolith that sprung from another monolith and this one sprung from another, an infinitely high column of these geometry-defying structures stretching towards the sky and looking back at it with no eyes. Where the Swarmlord was, they needed no eyes to see. The Swarmlord navigated through the landscape, swatting the ghosts of the Necrontyr aside, following the two figures inside the monoliths. It cried out for them, but heard only their voices crying out for itself. The blazing sun bore the face of a young man and every shaft of light was a spear through the Swarmlord’s body, weakening it with every step it took.

It wanted to look up, to pierce the sun with its rending talons as it had done with the ghosts, but it could not; in the land of the dead, the Swarmlord could only follow the trail of its own shadow across this twisted dreamscape. It saw the shadow of a great winged serpent across the sand, circling the sun and baring its fangs at the star; the shadow fangs glinted silver. The sun’s face smiled at the serpent’s posturing, all the while the ghosts gathered round the serpent and tried to drown it. The serpent spat out a carved gemstone, a ruby that dwarfed even the star’s brightness, and the ghosts were consumed by its light. The Swarmlord came at last to a hall of mirrors on the doorway to the monolith and saw thousands of trapped souls screaming for release, now out of reach of that baleful sun. It rested its immense bulk against a pillar of grey stone, thankful for the respite of the darkness within the monolith. And then it travelled on, finally reaching the place where knowledge went to die, and knew what it had to do.

Here's my crack at interpreting this: the only white-dressed man in the entire story's been the Deceiver, which would probably make the old regretful man Marius Hax. The serpent is the Dragon; the silver fangs would either be the Grey Knights or the Necrons; the sun seems like it might be the Outsider (again, relative shortage of other young men in the character roster). I'm not really sure what any of this means, but it seems like the Swarmbro's broken completely with the Hivemind and wants to do . . . something, probably something unfortunate for the C'tan. I suspect Terra is his true target here.

VD's plan right now seems to involve becoming a warp god. Also, he still has a turbocharged sorceror spy in our ranks; it's not Lucius, but it is someone who's been with us since the dawn of our crusade. Which probably means he just heard about our Scroll of Armageddon.

Assuming the Swarmbro's headed to Terra anyway, I don't see a ton of differences between Hoodoo's option and the Scorch Earth plan. I don't mind standing a bit to the side and letting the Swarmlord take a swing at VD--his warp shadow should at least prevent any apotheosis-related shenanigans during the fight--but I suggest popping the scroll at the first sign of trouble. Maybe make a copy of that thing or two, too, just in case VD's operative figures out that our plan to shatter the galactic empire can be foiled with a pack of matches.
 

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Yaar Podshipnik said:
I'm for burning Terra not just for the lulz.

Terra is the heart and mind of the Human Empire. It is the cradle of humanity, a symbol of communality and a common origin.

It is also a single point of failure.

If Terra is destroyed and humanity is free to expand, new and wonderful things can be created. Independence of governance, creed and thought will only make humanity stronger.

Burn the past, break the walls of Terra influence that limit humanity and truly spread amongst the stars!

Seconded!
 
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Ulminati

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Since Hoodoos plan seems to be the crowd favourite, let's throw in another vote for it to cement the victory and give us a faster update!
 

Baltika

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Supporting Hoodoo's plan. Although, a'splodin' Terra with a FUCKHUEG 'sploshun seems like a waste. Symbol of the old empire and centralization and all that, it's a repository of knowledge, sceince, research, etc... Think of all the millenia of scientific progress and research that will be lost with it's destruction.

No, better to lure the Swarmbro to Terra's atmosphere, forcing the VD to roll in his fleet and try to stop them. Both sides are likely to severely damage each other, if not outright destroy at least one. And in the meanwhile, Jeremiah and his Bro's will land in VD's castle and start fuckin' his shit up.

I only hope that Ghengisbro isn't the mole.
 

Kayerts

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root said:
eh, breaking the sigils won't just 'burn' terra. it'll ensure mankind is never able to do what the old ones did all those millenia ago...permanently. Terra's more than just a center of political power and a symbol of Man's rule over the universe.

Use of Armageddon Scroll considered harmful, got it. Under those terms, Hoodoo's plan looks like the better option. It seems Iblis gets to challenge God again.
 

Baltika

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Depends on how many bros Ghengis is taking with him. If it is a significant number, stay clear of Grey Knights, and rape, pillage and burn Mars.
If not, get rid of the Arnie wannabes.
 
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Rest of the fleet should concentrate on Mars. That's where VD was imprisoned for a long time, maybe there's something interesting left there.

Also, whatever remains of the cult of omnissiah must fall, along with its old center of power. Machines aren't gods, they do not have spirits. Neither they are holy or servants of humanity. They are just tools, to be created, used and discarded as required. So let's kick the shits out of Mars and whatever it did/does represent now.
 

Kayerts

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Here's my proposal:

First, meet with a handful of our most trusted, most loyal commanders and order them to start using encrypted vox channels to discuss plans to desert our crusade and flee the system. I trust the Machine God's SIGINT division is good enough to decrypt their mutinous mutterings, and the resulting disinformation will make our erratic behavior in the rest of this plan seem more believable. It's the sort of behavior you'd expect from the Highly Dependable Marines, anyway.

Second, I just remembered: our flagship is a refit of Abaddon's old battle barge. This is Abaddon's old battle barge. I note that it is called the Planet-Killer and, in a rare lack of duplicity, has a planet-destroying gun. Terra apparently cannot be destroyed without dire consequences for all mankind, but the rest of the planets and moons in the system are fair game.

So, if the Ordo Malleus isn't airborne yet, deploy a large number of ships piloted by skeleton crews to orbit over Titan. With any luck, the Grey Knights will prepare to repulse the anticipated assault. When the Tribunal's in range, instruct all "invading" ships to scatter, and obliterate Titan with the Armageddon Gun. Alternatively, if the Grey Knights have already taken to the skies, or if Titan's aerial defenses render it impractical, try the same trick on Mars. (We could even attempt to marshal Magnus's bros and our own now-godlike sorcerors to create illusionary ships, or cloak the Tribunal; this will augment the apparent invasion force and bait VD to deploy more troops to planetary defense. I forget whether pariahs can disbelieve illusions, though; if they can, discard that idea.)

Depending on how the gun works, we could take out Titan AND Mars. In this wretched system and across the galaxy, let the False Emperor's worshippers look upon his most loyal servants and see that the fruit of their faith is death.

Other than that, though, I suggest caution, and that we avoid direct engagement until Iblis arrives. Our planet-nuking tricks are flashy and all, but we still can't win a straight fight on land or in the air, and mankind can't afford for us to get shot down before the battle on Terra begins.

I do recommend that once Iblis hits Terra, we waste no time waiting for a clear victor to emerge. My guess is that when the hive fleet is readying for invasion, the Emperor will recall nearby ships to Terra's defense. We should move in then and pick off as many as we can when they're en route; the ones that make it to Terra will be caught between us and the Iblis. If we make it that far and the Swarmlord's plan with regard to VD does indeed turn out to be DEVOUR SOUL!!!, I suggest we harass the Terran defenses; this will either force the Emperor to divert forces from the Swarmbro, or he will ignore us and allow us to establish a beachhead on Terran soil.

Keep the scroll on Jeremiah's person at all times. Use it if things are dire and conventional means of destroying VD seem implausible. If he tries to DEVOUR our SOUL, he'll choke on it.
 
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Kayerts said:
Second, I just remembered: our flagship is a refit of Abaddon's old battle barge. This is Abaddon's old battle barge. I note that it is called the Planet-Killer and, in a rare lack of duplicity, has a planet-destroying gun. Terra apparently cannot be destroyed without dire consequences for all mankind, but the rest of the planets and moons in the system are fair game.

dr-evil.jpg


I say it is time we unleash our proverbial "Death Star" and aim our "Laser Beam" at Mars

dr%20evil%20laser.jpg
 

Baltika

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I'd suggest not using our sorcerers just yet. Root said that they are in danger of Warp overdose, better not to risk them until they are really needed.
 

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