Completed Let's actually win the Second Punic War in Rome & Carthage

[Modron]

Was hoping with last round's reinforcements we could start mopping up islands, but yeah that card means Hannibal needs reinforcements.

 

[ValeVelKal]

So Hannibal has only 8000 men left? I'd say sending reinforcement in Italy is the more important choice.

Yeah.
1 assume one element of infantry is 4000 men (as a legion is) and one of cavalry is 1000 horse (from 2000 in earlier turns) so Hannibal is 8000 plus elephants, Hasdrupal is 16 000 and Mago is 27 000.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Oh boy, that was one messy victory. Surely nothing like the elegance of a Cannaes.

Of course, Send reinforcements to Italy.

Yeah, the previous year battle was really comparable to Lake Trasimene (clean victory against the Romans as they were to catch back Hannibal heading to Rome) but here it would have been a travesty to show it as a Cannae. Sadly I was lacking a Punic trick card, which could have allowed me to close the battle in 2 rounds at 10 or 11 hits a round, I’m which case I would have lost maybe 2 or 3 units.

Also, that pursuit was careless.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Paradox :

DarthShizNit : Sardinia & Corsica, Infantry or Cavalry
Andrzej 1 : Italy
Jorlaan : Italy, Navy
hyme : Italy
Barsoom : Italy, "soldiers"
alxeu : Italy
BBBD316 : Do not reinforce Hannibal
Lamahorse : Italy
Nostra : Sardinia & Corsica

RPGCodex :

baud : Italy
Grimgravy : Italy, "soldiers"
Andnjord : Italy
Modron : Italy


13 votes, 10 for Reinforce Italy. Italy it is.​

215 BC - CARTHAGE

The tear is 215 BC. In Carthage, news from Italy plunged the Senate in massive bickering. Should Carthage secure Sardinia as a foothold against Italy ? Should they reinforce the depleted Barcid army ? Should they recruit North in the relative safety of Cisalpine Gaul ? But wouldn't abandoning Neapolis make a waste of Hannibal victory ?

No agreement could be found, disagreement became disputes, which turned into rage. To spite the other sides, all parties seemed put their vote on the least likely proposal to win...

… reinforce Spain !

(the first draw was "reinforce Africa", which would have been better with 3 recruitments)



The Senate also recruited cavalry, and sent it to Spain with Hanno.

In Italy, Hannibal could only say one thing :

"Why ?"

"Certainly they know something I don't".

The siege were going well. The garrison of both Neapolis and Genua had been halved, though one more season of siege would have been necessary before the city fell.



Hannibal considered two plans :
- The first one would be to order his brother Mago to storm Genua, and force-march to the Latium, in order to reinforce Hannibal own army. Neapolis would also be stormed, and local Italic troops recruited. The caveat would have been that the Romans would have been able to easily retake Cisalpine Gauls - including Genua. In addition, while the Punics could have been able to rely on Neapolis, Neapolis would have been extremely liable to revolt against the Punics without a strong garrison - which would have weakened the rest of the army.
[Neapolis and Rhegium are the two Roman cities that can easily switch back to Rome just by a Roman card if there is not a strong "regular" army garrison ; it is not impossible that Rome has such a card]

- The second one would be to regroup in Cisalpine Gaul and finish the total conquest of it, allowing reinforcements to come from Spain (through Genua) next year. The move was less risky, but it would allow the Roman a full turn of recruitement (since Praetors and Consul could spread out in Italy to recruit).

Hannibal knew he could not risk his army to die without support in front of Rome, nor to lose all the achievements in Cisalpin Gaul, so with great regret, he regrouped with his brother and moved his army North.

In Cisalpine Gaul, Mago had seized Genua by brute force - without additional losses, and had started to siege Placentia.

Hannibal used Genua has a recruitement centers for the many Italians disappointed by the Roman rule :



He also ordered his brother to protect the city with a strong garrison of Italians. He expected the strong walls of Genua, the quality of the command and the discipline of the newly recruited to dissuade to attempt anything against the city.

Finally, the fleet was moved to the Spanish sea.



The campaigning season had been calm, but Hannibal needed to regroup and the Senate needed to get clarify its instructions.


215 BC - ROME

The Roman started there campaigning season by the kind of recrutement drive they knew how to do :



At the head of a powerful army in Rome, Scipio had only one target : catch Hannibal and destroy him. He knew he was maybe not the better commander, but he had the best men.

Between him and Hannibal, Genua stood. Scipio had no time to lose and immediately assaulted it, much to Hasdrupal's surprise - who suddenly felt not so sure about the quality of the walls.







The Romans were determined, and received less losses in the assault than the Carthaginians had planned. Finally, Hasdrupal led the last of the defense - to no avail.



Hasdrupal was dead - Scipio had avenged his humiliation in Spain, the route to Spain was closed again - and now Scipio would present the head of Hasdrupal to Hannibal himself.

Carrying on his march, Scipio entered in Cisalpine Gaul. As Hannibal saw his army marching unhampered, he knew it could only mean one thing about the fate of Genua, and thus about the fate of Hasdrupal.

Hannibal was waiting :




The two armies prepared for battle.



Or I should have said - Scipio was preparing for battles, and Hannibal had already preparing. As the Romans where still getting ready, they heard a thunderous noise - and the Carthaginian cavalry was on them.







The battle barely lasted one hour (1 round...). The Romans were devastated by the shock, and in full retreat toward Genua. Hannibal gave a ruthless pursuit - only a few cavalrymen - including Scipio, ever reached Genua.
Of the 9 legions and 3 cavalry units that had left Rome at the beginning of the season, it is all that was left. Of course, Carthage had lost 3 Phalanx, 2 units of Spanish infantry and 1 cavalry - and more importantly Hasdrupal

[I also had a weird bug where the pursuit against Scipio was considered a defeat, so the Romans got to draw a card and not me - oh well]

With their traditional vigor, the Romans sent the rest of their Consul & Praetor everywhere in Italy to raise new legions.



The Romans also proceeded to do new elections, with Otacilius AGAIN being elected despite being totally worthless



The man has connections !


The rest is not that great either - actually they are worse overall. But at least some of them come from good families !





The Carthaginian also received a newcomer :


Another Hanno. It won't help explaining what is occurring.


Here is the situation as 214 BC is starting :








(The Romans have 4 cards, I have 3 including one allowing Himilco to receive 3 extra Spanish troops anytime]

Here are the Roman forces :


(the units in red and the units with Sulpicius with an U are static garrisons)

Senate of Carthage, the Suffet implores you !

It is time for YOU to decide of the course of the war.



It is also to YOU that we ask to provide which troops should be recruited in Carthage next year !​

 

[Grimgravy]

Gaul and infantry

 

[oscar]

Gaul and infantry

 

[baud]

Cavalry to Gaul

 

[Andnjord]

Yeah, Gaul and Infantry too

 

[Anomander Rake]

I can't seem to find any place selling this - this game seems to be obscure. Anyone knows where can I get this game?

 

[Popot]

I can't seem to find any place selling this - this game seems to be obscure. Anyone knows where can I get this game?

http://slitherine.com/store/product.asp?gid=388

 

[ValeVelKal]

So I am back and I collected the vote :

RPG Codex

Grimgravy : Cross to Gaul, recruit infantry
oscar : Cross to Gaul, recruit infantry
baud : Cross to Gaul, recruit cavalry
Andnjord : Cross to Gaul, recruit infantry
Moistcloister : Cross to Gaul, recruit infantry

Paradox Interactive Forum

TheLoneGunMan : Reinforce Italy
DarthShizNit : Raid Corsica and Sardinia
hyme : Raid Corsica and Sardinia
Avernite : Reinforce Italy
Nostra : Raid Corsica and Sardinia
Andrzej I : Raid Corsica and Sardinia
Lamahorse : Reinforce Italy
Jorlaan : Reinforce Italy

So we have 13 votes :
- 5 Cross to Gaul, from the RPGCodex voting block. This feels like Eurovision.
- 4 Reinforce Italy
- 4 Raid Corsica and Sardinia


I ll process the turn this week-end latest. I will take votes until Friday afternoon.

 

[ValeVelKal]

214 BC - CARTHAGE

The tear is 214 BC. In Carthage, confusion reigned as what should be the next decision. Should Carthage be master of the sea, or try to stab Italy once and for all ? Is Hannibal powerful enough to destroy Rome.
Like last year, the vote almost went to reinforcing Spain - again, but a compromise was found - Carthage would reinforce using the ferocious Gauls.

(the first draw was "reinforce Spain", which would have been horrible. I would have preferred "Italy" directly but Gaul is OK)



Carthage also recruit Punic infantry (elephants would have been better imo, but infantry is a good second best)
Himilco in Rome immediately recruits as much as he can, and crosses in Gaul :



Meanwhile, Hannibal merges his force with his brother, and assaults Otacilius in Genua :





Otacilius has not a chance, the city falls almost immediately and the old veteran of Roman politics (consistently reelected in those years of war) find his death in his first battle).





This propaganda victory make some of the Romans desert the Praetorian armies in the East of Italy (thanks to the card I drew)

After also assaulting Placentia (losing some Gallic infantry in the process), Hannibal does an Extended March straight to Rome. Moving back to Cisalpine Gaul had been a mistake, and Hannibal hoped that a siege of Rome would attract once again what was left of the Roman armies in a trap... and if they would not come, then Rome would fall.



Note that Hanno also moved to Gaul. The Spanish recruiting pool is almost depleted, and I plan to move Himilco to Italy as soon as possible, so Hanno will be the recruiter.
[I also used a card to remove two Romans legions from armies outside Rome]


214 BC - ROME

It is time for the Romans to react, and it starts with a bang as the Romans dive into some sort of unexhaustable manpower pool :




Centumalus is chosen to muster a significant Roman and socii force (though surprisingly not the forces in Capua), and challenge Hannibal siege.



Hannibal breaks the siege, but his objective is reached - there is an army ready to be attacked next to him, and one Roman leader not recruiting troops while he is in the field.*

Other movements are just Roman Consuls and Praetors going all around Italy recruiting, adding 7 units to the Roman force (+ 1 fleet) :



Rome elects a new round of leader.



Clearly the death of Otacilius made not-so-great leaders wary of vying for a position, and well seeing a Punic army seen from the walls of Rome made the Romans very wary of electing unfit leaders.



Scipio is back too, though not as leader of the most powerful Roman army in the field.

Here is the situation at the start of 213. I have a treachery card in my hand, allowing me to take instantly Neapolis (and its port), or Capua (destroying 2 legions at the same time) - or I could keep it to recruit 4 units later.



Senate of Carthage, the Suffet implores you ! What should we do ? Should take Neapolis, or Capua. Should we move South in Bruttium where the Romans are hated and recruitment should be easy ?



It is time for YOU to decide of the course of the war. (just don't propose "reinforce Spain". Seriously)







It is also to YOU that we ask to provide which troops should be recruited in Carthage next year !




*

Spoiler

[At this point, I knew I could have accepted battle and have more or less 50% chance of winning this battle - and the war since I would have killed the troops from the garrison at the same time - and 50% of chance of losing the battle - and also the war immediately, with the results of the battle depending on how much hits vs routs I inflict (routs are better as I need 1 rout vs 2 hits to get rid of a legion in battle, and how much cavalry I would have left after the end of the battle for pursuit ; if it had not been an AAR I would have taken the chance since I give myself less than 30% chance of winning the war at the this point, but that would have made for disappointing ending)

​

 

[Grimgravy]

Reinforce Italy
Recruit Cavalry
take Capua

 

[Modron]

What Grimgravy said seems the most sensible.

 

[oscar]

+1 to grim

 

[ValeVelKal]

You guys are really an hivemind There are epic battles on the correct strategy on the Paradox forum !

 

[hoothoot]

Where you get this game. looks r cool

 

[ValeVelKal]

OT Paradox Forum

Avernite : Take Neapolis
DarkShizNite : Take Capua, recruit numidian cavalry
Barsoom : Take Neapolis
Andrzej I : Take Neapolis
BBBD316 : Take Capua
Hyme : Take Neapolis

RPG Voting block :

Grimgravy : Take Capua, recruit Cavalry
Modron : Take Capua, recruit Cavalry
oscar : Take Capua, recruit Cavalry
​

Take Capua it is. Bummer.

​

Where you get this game. looks r cool

http://slitherine.com/store/product.asp?gid=388

 

[BANANA CONDUCT]

 

[ValeVelKal]

213 BC - CARTHAGE

The year is 213 BC. Once again, the Senate jokingly first proposed to reinforce Spain (really...) but finally decided to go for Italy.



And as chosen by DarkShizN… the Senate, cavalry was recruited.



Just putting that above so you see what you can choose next time. Please.

Hannibal took his army and trieds to engage Valerius who - surprise surprise - did not manage to evade battle this time.



Hannibal did not have time for subtleties, so the battle started with a fairly classical deployment - mix of infantry, cavalry on the wings, elephants.



The beginning of the battle was without surprises, with even losses on both sides :



Suddenly, it turned for the worse for the Romans :



With his armies dissolving in front of his eyes, Valerius immediately called for the retreat, but there was little chance he could salvage anything. After all, Hannibal had a massive amount of barely winded cavalry to pursue him :





And yet, the miracle happened. Most of the victorious Carthaginians preferred to secure the spoil, and the rest was delayed enough by the courageous Roman cavalry which sacrified itself. A Roman legion, and critically Valerius himself, would make it to the walls of Rome.







[with 14 attacks including 6 with +20% to hit, I only managed 2 good damn hits !! RNG for the win. This means that Valerius is now a skill 9 general, just like Scipio !]



With Valerius defeated, the betrayal of Capua was made all the more easier [I had to use my cards though when a Roman army is defeated in the field there is chance for a city switching side]







Hannibal left his brother Mago and some troops to defend Capua, and thereafter marched to Brutium. Consentia was seized (with a few losses), and Hannibal then moved to the city of Rhegium, which was put under siege.

Meanwhile, Himilco moved into Cisalpine Gaul.









For the first time, Carthage was able to solidly recruit - no less than 5 units joined them.









213 BC - ROME



Consul Valerius knew he was now Consul-Valerius-the-defeated, so he knew he had to act strong before his year ended. Conveniently, he also knew that at the moment Consul Marcellus was stuck in the siege of Rhegium. Therefore, Valerius did what any Roman Consul with his fellow Consul under siege in the South and with a few months to make his name honorable again would have done :



He took all the armies in Rome, and moved North in Cisalpine Gaul to fight Himilco.









Valerius assaulted and seized Placentia without losses, then tried to engage Himilco army.

Himilco did not agree with this plan, and this time it is Himilco who refused battle :







Better to wait for Valerius to exhaust his army in successive assaults. And indeed, Valerius assaulted city after city in a rage, though he only lost 2 units in the process. By the end of the campaigning season, all the Cisalpine Gaul was in Roman hands again.









Meanwhile, Marcelus courageously escaped Rhegium by ship, and went recruiting in Brundisium. The other Romans did little.



The Romans then recruited for next campaigning season and elected their leaders.








​

Tuditanus is the only leader new to us :







For the rest, it is mixed news for Carthage. Valerius did not have his reputation saving battle, and is out, but Scipio is given command of the last Roman army in the field. Marcellus managed to convince his defence of Rhegium was spirited, and Livius and Fulvius convinced the Senate they were very good at recruiting.



Here is the situation at the opening of 212 BC :







And here are the significant armies in the field :





(I have 3 cards :

- Macedonian Aid (Gallic Aid has been used already)

- One card to make Hannibal shine in battle

- Recruit one more unit in Carthage.)



Senate of Carthage, the Suffet implores you ! What should we do ?



It is time for YOU to decide of the course of the war !







It is also to YOU that we ask to provide which troops should be recruited in Carthage next year !​

 

[Modron]

So does controlling a region give you the ability to recruit there every season? Would there be benefit to securing sicily/sardinia/corsica or are they close enough that they can be easily retaken by the Romans?

 

[Grimgravy]

Italy
Africa
Elephants, maybe a boat if that would help control the sea
play cards - what can the Macedons do for us?

 

[ValeVelKal]

So does controlling a region give you the ability to recruit there every season? Would there be benefit to securing sicily/sardinia/corsica or are they close enough that they can be easily retaken by the Romans?

You get ability to recruit in cities you own and where you have a leader, every season. It also depends on the cities (Consentia hates the Romans) and how much exhausted the supply pool is (if you over recruit somewhere, there will be no one left).
No one can't recruit in Corsica, Sardinia has a fairly limited pool, Sicily is OK but I am not going there because I would trigger the Syracusan army (which can't leave Sicily) and I prefer to wait for the old guy to die.​

Italy
Elephants
play cards - what can the Macedons do for us?

Nothing as long as I don't have a port on the Adriatic, nothing USEFUL as long as I don't have 2 cards of Macedon Aid, at which point they'll land a significant army.

In addition, I would specify that there is nothing I can do against Scipio army with Himilco. His army is slightly more powerful than mine, and he is the better leader. Since I will be intercepted, I cannot move either.
I cannot move from Gaul to Cisalpine Gaul either, since the passes / cities are not owned by me any more.
So for Himilco I either wait for a shitty leader to take over the local Roman army (fat chance), or I need to bring Scipio's army somewhere else thanks to the threat of Hannibal to Rome.

 

[ValeVelKal]

A few mentions :

- I don't have much to reinforce Italy (3 units in Carthage, 1 in Gaul that can't move anyway), and critically I can't land stuff from Carthage with the Romans controlling the seas.
- I am not going to control the seas on which I don't have a port. Super risky as attacking means leaving my fleet there and then one storm => No more fleet. I actually did it earlier, but it was a mistake.
- Raid Corsica / Sardinia could allow me to seize one of these ports... It also allows me to attack with my fleet and come back (as a special rule) avoiding the port problem. I could potential land dudes and start sieging.
- The Spanish recruitment pool probably improved so I could actually be OK with a reinforce Spain.
- "Reinforce Africa" allows me to recruit 3 units there.
- It will take me 2 - 3 turns to siege Tuditanus, and having cities in more region will not allow me recruit more as I need cities and a commander to recruit, and I only have Mago and Hannibal "free" in Italy.

 

[Grimgravy]

Updated my vote