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Incline Let's brainstorm a new Icewind Dale game.

Lagole Gon

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
Economy and items:
- If you wear it, you drop it.
- Items should get a nice subtle color-coded frames, so the player can just ignore the mundane items. Nice big item interface to see it all at once.
- We should try (and probably fail, but that's fine) making D&D economy a bit less silly. Make the gap between magical and mundane smaller, tinker with item value. Cut prices of magical items in half?
- Small merchants have mundane items, one or two lesser magical items. No poor village blacksmith with a gallery of +4 weapons. I hate this shit...
- Instead make a story excuse and place an epic merchant in the main hub area. An exiled Djinni from Calimshan is hiding in small town and posing as merchant. He can afford to buy all the magical crap from you and has serious artifacts in stock. Done! Perfect!
 
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jac8awol

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Don't forget to include a lava level.
We make a lot of edgy jokes here on Codex, but you just took things too far.
Get out of this thread. Get the fuck out. There will be no lava level. Reported!

maxresdefault.jpg


:prosper::prosper::prosper:

There will be a lava level. Of course there will be a lava level, when you go down deep enough into a mountain. Then you fight those snake people and a Balrog or whatever. And if it's done right with the heavy snow gear inventory system, it will trick you into dropping your snow survival equipment to pick up shiny crap to sell. Then you'll end up outside in a blizzard and die and be forced to reload and it will teach you a valuable life lesson. That aha moment will be glorious, brothers!
 
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Rinslin Merwind

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Perhaps I would repeat someone's else words, but for now I want to say one thing: TB combat and no romances.
If someone wants to make a RTwP game - he/she should making his/her own setting with specific ruleset, instead of cramming mutant of a combat system that can exist only in computer games into a game that uses D&D rules developed for tb combat.
Sometimes I think that people, who wants RTwP combat in isometric D&D CRPG, actually want to play a Diablo or it's clones, but they suck at real time games (and at games in general) and need a crutch in the form of a pause as in RTwP.
And romances are just horrible idea in game which supposed to be about bunch of murderhobos on a quest.
 

Lagi

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when PC drop to 0 HP, he dont die. You can bring him back after rest, or something.
So you can limit amount of quickloads, only to occasion when whole party is wipe out. And if you ironman, then you dont have to sell all magic items to pay for resurrections in temple (and its less of a chore to go back and forth to city)
 

Lagole Gon

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
when PC drop to 0 HP, he dont die. You can bring him back after rest, or something.
Sounds like decline.
Negative HP system is a better solution. Let's say max negative HP = CON + 1HP/level. Most enemies will simply ignore fallen characters.
 

Max Heap

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Maybe the weather should play a greater role. It's Icewind Dale after all.
There are some AD&D rules about the effects of cold environments.
Maybe give armor a temperature stat to avoid damage in certain areas.

Then for certain encounters, like fighting an ice dragon in its cave, you'd be forced to find the perfect balance between protection and warmth.
 

Dorateen

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I picked up Rime of the Frostmaiden last month. It has a few issues, but if we disregard some of the nonsense Wizards of the Coast inserts for nuD&D players, and stick with the overarching campaign, it would make an appropriate conversion for Icewind Dale III.

Party chooses one of the Ten Towns to start in, and gets to explore the other settlements and surrounding areas, building toward a confrontation with Auril.
 

Roguey

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I'd just want Kingmaker's set-up (world map with smaller areas off the critical path and generous time limits to discourage rest spamming and reward limited resting) with full party creation using 2e or 5e rules.
 

Corvinus

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Great thought experiment, Lagole Gon. Some interesting ideas so far.


If I was put in charge, I'd make something along the lines of...



image124.jpg


No POZ, obviously. Perhaps you could get to slaughter a few pozzed characters to even things out though.

OD&D ruleset (3 LBBs only, which means Fighting-man, Magic User and Cleric, except I'd also add the Thief class as an option).
2D elements only as Baldur's Gate; isometric fixed camera.
Gorgeous artwork, painted by hand by actual artists which means no shitty digital painters - REAL paintings and drawings only. This is then scanned and imported into the game. It doesn't hurt if the resolution is limited (no plastic-looking HD graphics allowed).
The artstyle itself should be as far removed from the garbage of the 3rd edition and onwards as possible. Realistic designs for clothing, weapons, armour and locales, preferably as much down to earth as possible.
Extra attention would be given to the death animations, which should be realistic, gruesome and varied. The aim would be to surpass Fallout (1997).
The PCs would select their portraits from one large gallery. NPC portraits come from another. Only characters of import has a portrait. Plenty of voices to choose from.

The music would perhaps be a more ambient "dungeon synth" or similar offering, with tunes fitting with the enviroment.

The story would be about a party of adventurers who are in Icewind Dale to get rich by plundering the countryside before the short summer is over. Any connection to earlier games would be minimal. The overall atmosphere would be grim and unforgiving and a struggle against the terrible cold would play a major part. The entire campaign would be just that, a campaign, and exploration would take place on a nicely drawn world map. If you don't have enough supplies you will freeze to death, there would be a good possibility of getting lost, plenty of random encounters and not only with monsters, etc. The adventure ends when the player is either thwarted, gets on a ship to leave Icewind Dale or as winter sets in. As long as you have enough coin to leave by ship, you could as said do so at any time (when in port) and a tally and a high score list will appear, detailing your exploits. Of course there would be story details as well - how the PCs actions changed events in the region. If the player reaches certain thresholds of wealth, different aftermath screens an short films would play. The lowest tiers would simply have the PCs die in poverty or freeze.

The party would be up to eight 1st level characters (though as low as four would still be viable) who would all be created by the player. Attributes and starting gold would be rolled once from top to bottom for each character, and then you pick a class which suits him. As Lagole Gon wisely said in the beginning of this thread "the main randomization is done at the start of the game, preventing savescumming". That will include attributes. Level progression for the entire the adventure could perhaps go as high as 6 or 8 as D&D is at its best at low levels (and anything above 2HD is heroic anyway, as per the original OD&D / Chainmail vision).
As PCs will suffer from attrition, there would be some opportunity of getting new 1st level PC reinforcements throughout the campaign in a limited fashion (chances dwindling as winter nears).

I would make it so that avoiding or fleeing from unfavourable encounters will be a viable tactic, as it would be in real life. The morale of enemies would also play a significant part as it did in the old days - encounters will be over when one side flees or surrenders and last man standing fights would be few and far between.
While there would be no joinable NPCs (like Imoen etc), you could hire NPC warriors during your adventures. You would only be able to give them general commands (defend, attack follow etc) and if treated poorly they might desert or even attack you if they think they can win.

There would be no "loot drops" from enemies - if someone has a magical spear, rest assured that he will use it against you until defeated. As for enemy types it would be whatever fits the enviroment - humans, goblinkind, wildlife, and so on. A game like this isn't complete without haunted ruins, covens of witches, giants and dragons, obviously, so there would be a few dungeons too, most of them not too deep, but one or two large, sprawling ones would be interesting. All would be hand made and as atmospheric as possible. Some would be impossible to find without some luck so that the game remains replayable.
 

Lagi

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no AD&D or god forbid ODD ! this is not a coherent system, only sewn together exceptions to exception, and loads of arbitrary values from tables. There is not even race-class combination in ODD!

rest of Corvinus post is good.
 

Corvinus

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this is not a coherent system, only sewn together exceptions to exception, and loads of arbitrary values from tables. There is not even race-class combination in ODD!

I agree, it is so. That it is the bare-bones foundation of all that came later is what is what I like about it. It all depends on the interpretation of the rules, and if the interpretation is good, it will be. If not...
 

Ontopoly

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This is all great stuff guys but where's the SPICE? This is 2020. I'm talking surfaces, I'm talking verticality. I'm talking characters taking giant, super gay looking two foot jumps to disengage!
Give us mo-cap sex scenes. Give us wacky voice acting. Goblin foot kissing. Cuck romances. Let's modernize.

We make a lot of edgy jokes here on Codex, but you just took things too far.
Get out of this thread. Get the fuck out. There will be no lava level. Reported!

Lava levels are a crucial part of isometric rpgs. It's like making one without giant spiders... can't be done. Even PoE recognized this and gave us a lava cave. If you're game doesn't have a lava level is it even worth playing? no. I would not accept an IWD3 without a lava level.
 

laclongquan

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22b72de1af0d2c7df27b81739cb98436.jpg


Snowy Icewind Dale adventures might be the right place to explore the more mundane aspects of adventuring, like camping, survival, natural hazards etc.
Part of me really wants to see a complex adventure management... but I'm not going to suggest it, because I'm not sure it can be done well in a game. Yeah... probably can't be done. It would turn into a chore very quickly.

That was the equipment in a no/low magic world. Anything higher than that have lowlevel cantrips that create fire easily, like one application of prestigiditation.
For example, IWD/BG setting. It's impossible to carry all that inventory unless you assume they have a bag of holding on each member. Space is no limit, only weight. In which case, it's middle/high magic world.
 
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Ysaye

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Meh - my go at it......

Lore / setting bits:
  • Game should have a hub based at Termalaine
  • A sub-plot could revolve around the Arcane Brotherhood trying to take control of the town again
  • Main plot could revolve around the legacy of the mage/lich Damien and the last dungeon would be in Damien's / The Acursed Tower
  • Another sub plot and related dungeon could be the crypt of Yarmuth the Brown, former priest of Mykrul.
Game Mechanics
  • 5E rules
  • Creation of six party members, respecting the original, although an exception I would be happy with would be 4 plus 2 NPCs. If there was NPCs, there should be:
    • a "good" (can we use those terms Good and Evil in 5E?) Male Human barbarian classed NPC
    • an "evil" (can we use those terms Good and Evil in 5E?) Female Human arcane Brotherhood character
    • A "neutral" Drow bard (for all those that need their diversity whatevers)
  • Up to 10th level (15 at max).
  • Be a series of (maybe 6 or 7) dungeons that can be quick travelled to the entrance (once discovered or plot relevant), like the original - dungeons something like:
    • Lonelywood Forest
    • Brenmen's Run
    • A mine in the Dwarven Valley of Kelvin's Cairn
    • Targos (The Town)
    • Crypt of Yarmuth the Brown and shrine to Mykrul
    • The Acursed Tower (Sunken into the ground)
  • I would probably respect the RTWP gameplay of the original, although I would be fine with them using a good turn based system like the one used for Solasta
Other
  • I would get the guys from Tactical Adventures - I think they would have a lot of the necessary assets and engine ready to go, but please not voiceovers or ten billion cut scenes!
  • Would I play it?...not sure.
 

Corvinus

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What edition of the rules do you fellows think would fit best with IWD (or any D&D cRPG for that matter) and why?

OD&D, as I suggested to be used six posts above, is so dependent on interpretation or what you would like to include or not (chainmail combat tables, alternative system only, hybrid, 3LBBs only or with expansion books, Holmes, etc) that it can be a real "hit or miss" depending on who makes the interpretation. And what might work wonders at a table might work poorly when there's only a computer which depicts what happens - rather than a DM who could make what might on paper be implausible into plausible with a good description of events.

I'm a bit partial to the 2nd edition which was used in IWD, and BG1 and BG2, but that might be nostalgia talking to some extent. It is nevertheless much more fleshed out, even if the games only ever used modified versions of said system. Apparently this edition worked well enough or we wouldn't be having this conversation...

Then there's the 3rd edition which takes further steps in the direction of "balance", and it's a solid ruleset but certainly not without flaws. Versions of this was used in IWD2 and ToEE for those who didn't know. Despite having played many RPG campaigns with it myself, I'd say that it strays too far from the spirit of original game, which is far superior. Bad skill system, balance for the sake of balance, suggestions on how to level scale "adventures" and similar... The experience is very unrealistic with HP bloat and so on. Not that the 3rd edition is to blame for the latter - it's just that it is more or less expected at this point.

The direction of the 4th edition seems to be World of Warcraft, and the edition following it is made because they figured out that people liked the old stuff more than that abomination. Even the art sucks. I wouldn't touch games using either out of principle (and because the inclusion of POZ). But hey, perhaps they would work in computer format, if not at the table?
 

Lagole Gon

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
I would go with homebrew based on 3rd edition.
- Limit HP bloat. It will be a looong discussion.
- Change skills. Attributes should be a bit more relevant. Tweak the number of skill points and skill caps. Get rid of 1/2 points, an elegant system has only beautiful whole numbers! This will make concentration rolls difficult and it might be a good thing.

I'm not sure how I feel about kits and prestige classes. It's a bloated system caused by the publishing strategy. I'm going to suggest something different... How about something like "class perk tree (or line)"?
You start as plain druid. You invest "class perks" into unique druid abilities. There's a tree for shapeshifting, for summoning totemic spirits, for unique powerful animal companion, for edgy blight druid, etc. After investing X perks into totemic druid tree your class names into "Totemic Druid" and it feels like one. Maybe you can get even cooler name after that... or a hybrid name. Ooo! A Blight Shapeshifter! Some of the trees should be mutually exclusive. The branches should be independent, no cross perks. They can and should interact in more subtle ways. Maybe our edgy Blight Shapeshifter can figure out a way to add acid damage form his blight part to his claws from the shapeshifting part.

Races like tieflings should have unique Racial Perk Pool during character creation. Tieflings have varied lineages, they should have varied traits. Not everyone can cast blindness now, someone has bonus resistances and ugly scales instead. And no WoW tieflings, kurwa mać, this is the hill I'm willing to die on.
 
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The Jester

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Snowy Icewind Dale adventures might be the right place to explore the more mundane aspects of adventuring, like camping, survival, natural hazards etc.
Part of me really wants to see a complex adventure management... but I'm not going to suggest it, because I'm not sure it can be done well in a game. Yeah... probably can't be done. It would turn into a chore very quickly.

That was the equipment in a no/low magic world. Anything higher than that have lowlevel cantrips that create fire easily, like one application of prestigiditation.
For example, IWD/BG setting. It's impossible to carry all that inventory unless you assume they have a bag of holding on each member. Space is no limit, only weight. In which case, it's middle/high magic world.
What are pack animals in Icewind Dale? maybe add one of those to carry player's junks.
 
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If you omit spells like Goodberry, D&D can work well with a gritty, survivalist, low magic setting. I played on a hardcore rules PW for NWN called Montlethia. You had to eat, drink, and any rest outside of an Inn was limited to once every 8 (in-game) hours. Experience gain was slow, and magical items were very rare. The most powerful weapon I ever saw was a +2 light flail that added +1 fire damage, a belt that gave +1 Level 1 wizard spell. Anything above masterwork was so rare, only the server veterans typically had them. Clerics were absolutely valuable in this setting, but warriors were obviously good too. Rogue were also indispensable, as locks, traps, and hidden features were very common. Wizards were a serious carry, but really had their niche once they got level 3 spells. Sorcerers were uncommon, because the slow XP gain made that 1 level deficit hurt. I once got a wizard up to Level 8, which was literally the only time that had ever happened, because they all died long before then. I felt like an archmage, and was practically regarded as one too. Even with the awesome tricks available to me, at that point, I still didn't come close to outshining my party.

If I were to make another Icewind Dale, that's how I would have it. Gritty. Survivalist. Low magic. It really allows the classes to shine and function as a cohesive whole, rather than jockeying Mary sues.
 

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