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Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,013
Great alliance we have with Bai, congratulations to everyone teaching WQS to such a trustworthy person and the ones that revealed the empeor' secrets.
Ignoring every opportunity to develop the said alliance only to then come out and say 'told you so' must feel nice.

Still, it is old news that BJ plays for both teams and will side with the winning one. Telling us that Huashan has the Jiuyin manual wasn't in Madam Nie's interests and it cost her Xuezi. We still can't be sure of BJ's allegiances just yet.

That does not mean she won't kill you if you show a weakness, of course.
The point is that we have nothing to offer to Bai that could change the balance of power, so why Bay would side with us?
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The point is that we have nothing to offer to Bai that could chanfe the balance of power, so why Bay would side with us?
Here? She probably won't. She is still unsure who will come out on top - in the long term, I mean, and it is far too early for her to betray her shimu.

But if zhangs will get hanged for treason and Nie plots will be exposed, she might have a whole faction for her to lead. That's something to think about.

We are a player that can upset the balance of power. Why do you think Madam Nie seeks our loyalty offering us her daughters or the vital information? We are a danger to them, and that's what we can offer to BJ.

We kind of got a feeling that the status quo wasn't good enough for her.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I have to say the Twins were more extreme than I had anticipated. Interesting, and if things go well we could learn a whole whole lot. Even if things go poorly, well, it's not like the Twins were an asset for us previously. Also, we really should have seen Nie-brings-Bai coming.

Undecided. Even without WQS Bai is a dangerous enemy. I forget why we taught him any of our Super Skill and it's hard to say how much use he has made of it, but it's BJ, we should assume the worst. And Madam Nie is likely to be no slouch, either. That means on paper they are the stronger, especially if the Twins are still hesitant about attacking outright or fighting on our side. B may be the best we can do. It is unlikely to destroy our relations with BJ (I guess he might think we're just after more women, but strategically it's not a bad outcome for him) and if we succeed it does rob Nie of a piece in her puzzle, and there is potential for us to learn more from the Twins down the line. Not to mention another great embarrassment for Man-Nie.
 

Akkudakku

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,125
Madam Nie will most probably be a god damned steamroller.
Bai will chose side that wins. So if twins fail against Nie we are fucked.
If we can beat Nie then Bai will most probably feign a failure to beat the twins.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Madam Nie will most probably be a god damned steamroller.
Bai will chose side that wins. So if twins fail against Nie we are fucked.
If we can beat Nie then Bai will most probably feign a failure to beat the twins.

It would be a very good result if we beat Nie so fast that BJ thinks screw it, and feigns defeat or sides with us. Just seems too good to be true - Nie is not just a waifu, she's a seasoned adventurer and likely has something up her sleeve. Sure, we'd probably beat her 1v1 (and hence why she brought BJ as backup), but unless we do it very fast there's a chance she'll pull some trick to distract the twins, or BJ simply beats them faster. Can't imagine he'd have difficulties.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
B may be the best we can do. It is unlikely to destroy our relations with BJ (I guess he might think we're just after more women, but strategically it's not a bad outcome for him) and if we succeed it does rob Nie of a piece in her puzzle, and there is potential for us to learn more from the Twins down the line. Not to mention another great embarrassment for Man-Nie.
Well, anything that harms Wuxing is not going to win the Twins over. I suppose he will come for them first thing in the morning - if they won't go to him before that. The question is, what happens then?

I hope we would be able to talk to them and share what we know about Madam Nie's schemes. I kind of want them not to return home after today and make them a long-term allies, but they probably will.

Bai will chose side that wins. So if twins fail against Nie we are fucked.
If we can beat Nie then Bai will most probably feign a failure to beat the twins.
Qilin held her ground against her mother, and she wasn't even trained by us then. I think the Twins are more than a match for Madam Nie.

It would be hard for Bai to feign a failure to beat the Twins, though. The difference in power is so staggering that her shimu would never buy it.

I think Bai will remain on Nie's side for this battle no matter what option we choose. Just a hunch.
 
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treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Qilin held her ground against her mother, and she wasn't even trained by us then.

Madam Nie tried using words at first, and when that failed briefly attempted to steal her away by sealing her pressure points. She stopped by herself quickly enough for some reason, though, and retreated.

Madam Nie was facing Qilin + Yunzi + Armaiti + Murong Yandi by herself.

'For some reason' means some reason that is unclear to them. So they don't know if it was because she didn't think she could beat them, or if she had some other motive for retreating.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
'For some reason' means some reason that is unclear to them. So they don't know if it was because she didn't think she could beat them, or if she had some other motive for retreating.
It probably was some other motive.

Whoa, didn't know she was that skilled. Chie Tianxie, our benchmark for Madam Nie's power (as he was her rival 20 years ago), is about Nie Wuxing's level, which is about the same level as Haurvatat. Armaiti alone shouldn't be too far from here, not to mention the rest of the team we sent after Wuxing.

I bet she put the manual they found to good use.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Well, it didn't actually devolve into a full-blown fight. Just a bit of scuffling, and she went away. Either way, that encounter isn't a suitable example of her level, that's all.

You also can't rule out there being more than one reason for her retreating, which might also include the possibility that she can't beat them all.
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
D. Ask BJ to take the Twins back and convince them to follow her. Then stay and have the talk with madam Nie.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Madam Nie does not want to talk to you any longer.

“Perhaps not. I have wasted enough time with you and your tricks. I should have known better than to treat you like an adult,” she sniffs. “Girls, it is time to go back. I am sure you understand the importance of keeping what happened tonight a secret. It is for your father’s peace of mind.”
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
Hey, she can shove her excuses up her ass. She brought someone too. Its only fair that the extras go away and we talk.
Anyway, since its impossible, i am voting B.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Sure, you can tell her that. She still doesn't want to talk anymore.

edit: In case it still isn't clear, it's less whether or not you bring someone along, but more who you bring that kinda affects the outcome. You don't know the full story behind the dysfunctional Nie family relationship and that's that.
 
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asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
Now that i think of it, we should tell Shun to keep an eye on Madam Nie when we see him. Hopefully he does so already, but if he doesnt, he should.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I am sure he does that already:
“It might get dangerous. One of the people who might be attending is Nie Wuxing, leader of the Huashan Sect.”

“I know who he is, and how he is in bed with the Zhang clan,” says Shun rather dismissively.
I mean, it should be obvious to anyone with eyes who is the mastermind behind Huashan schemes.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Now that i think of it, we should tell Shun to keep an eye on Madam Nie when we see him. Hopefully he does so already, but if he doesnt, he should.
Whom we also just massively fucked by revealing the info to BJ and voting ourselves into a corner with her. The only thing that makes subset here is A, given the situation.
Flipping to A> C1> 2, either take advantage of the opening or let our ally save our ass.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Whom we also just massively fucked by revealing the info to BJ and voting ourselves into a corner with her. The only thing that makes subset here is A, given the situation.
I don't understand. What corner did we vote ourselves into?

What ally would save what ass here?
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
BJ is trying to save dat ass right now by giving us a way out: cooperate.
If wr go up against her, by fighting or fleeing, we'll make an enemy of get that knows all our dirty secrets. Have fun with that.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
If wr go up against her, by fighting or fleeing, we'll make an enemy of get that knows all our dirty secrets. Have fun with that.
What makes you think that going against Madam Nie makes an enemy out of Bai Jiutian?
 

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