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Storyfag

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Yeah, I think it's best to talk to the Masters with the bomb in hand. Since we're going to reveal the bomb to them anyway, we might as well build it from a different star. Remember, they can only access our minds in the wormhole. They cannot truly interact with us or our toys.
 

TOME

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A - Waste not, want not.
A - Mutually assured destruction. We want their knowledge before we go destroying their dimension. Also, bye bye Shulgi.
B - What is the point of destroying Masters in one dimension while allowing Star League to become new masters in other dimension?
 

TOME

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Did a quick count, might not be accurate at all.

AAB
BDB
BCC
BDA
BAA
BCC? - Not sure about Esquilax's vote
BCC
BCC
ACC
xAB - The Brazilian Slaughter, you forgot the first one
AAB

A - 3 B - 7
A - 4 C - 5 D - 2
A - 2 B - 4 C - 5

Winning combination is BCC, which is retarded. How do you defeat entire race of more advanced beings in their own playground with a small team of infiltrators without using the bomb?
 

Esquilax

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Haven't voted yet, TOME. I'm still unsure about what the best plan is.

Guys, it's important to note that there is probably not enough time to defeat the Star League in a war and turn the Sun into a super-weapon within six months:

Don't forget you only have six months. Defeating the League then grabbing a hypergiant might be nice but sadly the pact you made means you don't have enough time to prepare after you defeat them. It'll have to be done in one shot.

It seems to me that even if we succeed in collapsing the Masters' dimension, we still lose and the multiverse still dies in the long-run, as Kayerts noted. I think that we are too ignorant of what we're doing and too lacking in information to start doing something reckless and insane like actually going through with using the Sun as a bomb. Bluffing the Masters in an effort to coerce them into revealing some knowledge, or trying to defeat the Star League in a straight-up war (assuming the Masters aren't too fussed about us being the victor of the conflict) all seem preferable.

Winning combination is BCC, which is retarded. How do you defeat entire race of more advanced beings in their own playground with a small team of infiltrators without using the bomb?

What if we don't want to beat them? We don't even know what the Master's ultimate goal is in the millions of times that they've played this game. The first step here is to gain some knowledge.
 

Esquilax

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I just don't know how to get Ean gainfully employed. From what you said earlier, he'll be as useful in space as Aquaman is on land.
Strap a jetpack to him, maybe?

Ean devoured Naram-Master prior to his death, couldn't he simply devour the Masters in their home dimension so long as he touches them with Anbar-Shi? Marduk planned on devouring everything in the center of the universe, Ean could do the same. However, then there's the problem of Ean becoming just like Marduk by doing this (the only thing that kept him in control was Sekhenun's presence), which defeats the purpose of reviving him...
 

Anabanana

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Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I think that a Jupiter bomb should be sufficient for leverage over the Masters without having to kill Shulgi and deprive our entire solar system of its star. This way we can spend our time and resources on defeating the League, since if I remember correctly, making Jupiter into a bomb takes less time than the sun or another star? Or am I completely making that up? Hmm. BBB is looking somewhat more attractive at the moment...

Another question we might want to consider is that if we go for 3B (defeating the League), should we let the defectors go? We're probably going to need those resources under our control if we want to take on the League.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
Now, you will have enough time to prepare the bomb and attempt to defeat the Star League. You're not going to wage a traditional war on them, taking their star systems one by one. That would be immensely retarded given your strict deadline and take years. No, a simple leak of information, a half-truth claiming that you have a weapon that can destroy the defense drones - perhaps a bomb of some sort - will cause them to act quickly before you grow any stronger. They might mobilize for Earth, but once they notice your entire fleet moving towards the gateway they will have no choice but to engage you in battle, and the presence of the Imperial fleet practically ensures that they're forced to throw everything they have in your way to have a chance to stop you. You will then attempt to crush each other in a series of fleet engagements leading towards the galactic core.

Remember, the League's immortal Council is not interested in ruling the galaxy or even the universe - not by sheer force of arms at any rate. They want to meet their gods over anything else, they've spent thousands of years working towards it, and it is that psychological weakness that Senya plans to exploit in B. There is no point in them attacking Earth if you are going to reach the portal first.

The criteria for being the winning civilization is actually to just reach the gateway, but due to the unsurmountable difficulty posed in getting past the defense grid - which also serves to prevent the first civ from merely being the luckiest by virtue of starting position - it is generally much easier to just stomp or assimilate every other culture out there - which is what the Masters intended for their game. However, any civilization strong enough to bypass their defenses would be strong enough to win outright should they make an effort to do so, and so it makes no real difference to them in that aspect - the first one to reach would still be considered worthy and they would be rather short-sighted to reject them for that. Thus, if you appear to have figured out a way to bypass the drones, you will have the League's undivided attention.

And in B, you want that. You want them to commit everything they have against you so that you can smash them down at the height of their power and leave them utterly beaten and lost, that there is no doubt that you are the victor.

Given what I just said, you might think 3C is more conducive to dialogue with the Masters. And you would be right; they'd be friendly(er).

Still, a reminder of the current circumstances: You entered a mind pact to invade the Masters' home dimension. Now, that doesn't mean you absolutely have to win. You'll at least be expected to make an effort to pillage a little, burn some buildings down, kill a Master or two. Blowing up their dimension satisfies Adrahasis, as mentioned in the update - and also because it necessitates an operation to enter the portal to set the bomb - but that doesn't mean you can half-ass it and pretend talking to them and then buggering off is considered an invasion.

But some of you might want to take the risk of the mind pact triggering and frying your brain, hoping for a reset after you've drunk up the infodump and can make a different, more informed call, so there's that tactic too.
 

Storyfag

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Now, you will have enough time to prepare the bomb and attempt to defeat the Star League. You're not going to wage a traditional war on them, taking their star systems one by one. That would be immensely retarded given your strict deadline and take years. No, a simple leak of information, a half-truth claiming that you have a weapon that can destroy the defense drones - perhaps a bomb of some sort - will cause them to act quickly before you grow any stronger. They might mobilize for Earth, but once they notice your entire fleet moving towards the gateway they will have no choice but to engage you in battle, and the presence of the Imperial fleet practically ensures that they're forced to throw everything they have in your way to have a chance to stop you. You will then attempt to crush each other in a series of fleet engagements leading towards the galactic core.

Gratituous space battles :bounce:

Changing my vote to:

A - we want the Star Leagues undivided attention.
B - having an actual bomb will allow us to better dupe the League into attacking us. And it might make communication with the Masters more productive.
B - Gratituous space battles :bounce:
 

treave

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Codex 2012
And I believe that's enough information to go on for pros and cons of the various tactics. Or else we wouldn't be done even by Thursday. To summarize what should happen in each choice:

Surrender - last minute betrayal at the gateway, attempt to rush through before the Council representatives do (with or without a bomb). The end result is similar to C, in that you have one ship through the portal, but allows you to carry a bomb through. Getting discovered on the way there would be bad news, however, since you'll be in the midst of the League's fleet. It's alright after you get there because then you'll be in the midst of the automated defense system. :troll:

Attack - draw out the League, fight them, hopefully win. Advantage: you can send all of your surviving ships through the portal to increase your chances with the Masters. Disadvantage: you might not have any ships left after the battles if you make too many tactical blunders. Also, the sheer size of the fleet means that you cannot rely on wormhole technology to move all of them - you will have to minimize the number of long jumps to maintain fleet cohesion.

Sneak - Directly go through the defense system. Quickest way of meeting the masters and getting a plot dump without bothering with the League. However, pick the wrong route through the defense grid or make the wrong choice at the wrong time and you might get someone killed before you reach the gateway.
 

Baltika9

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I'm liking the infiltration tactic more and more. It's just so flexible.

Incredibly risky, but oh so worth it. And if we do decide to still fight them once we get to the other side, we'll have enough time to fulfill our contract.
 

Anabanana

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Yeah, I think we need a bomb here - unless people want to go with the sneak-infodump-reset option. Considering flopping to BBA now - think of how kickass it'll be when we steal the League's victory from right under their noses. ;D
 

Anabanana

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Do you really think any space battle is going to top smashing a black hole-devouring spacedragon into Uranus? ;)
 

Storyfag

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It's a different kind of awsome :smug:

Anyhow, a few more Storyfag's Stupid Questions(tm)(R)(c)

1. I would very much like to know more about the Empire and its culture. How come so damn many Immortals want freedom from the Masters? Did *all* of them subdue their voices like Shulgi did? How is that even possible?
2. I second Baltika's question about the Dunamis' reaction to Ean.
 

Baltika9

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Note, however, that we won't be bringing a bomb along in the infiltration option. And I'd much rather have it, or the Masters might try a reality-wipe.
Who says we'll give them a chance? Or did you forget that we're bringing the Greatest Bros That Ever Lived.

If everyone makes it in one piece, combining their powers with our tech and Senya's powers of destruction (after all, if the Devourer's concept would get a power-up in the Masters' dimension, why not the Destroyer's concept too?), we'll be able to take 'em.

And if we lose too many people, we can just grab the info and reload. See, flexible.

On the other hand, I am completely opposed to fucking up our Solar System by removing the Sun ot Jupiter. We have no guarantee that we'll be able to fix it later, and I don't want to fuck over the planet for which we did so much retardedly suicidal shit for.
Also, Ean may not approve and I want Shulgi to live.
 

Baltika9

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Whoops, my bad.
Still, that doesn't change the fact that Senya has reality-warping powers. We can tear their reality apart, erase them from the Akashik records or shatterpoint their tech.

Yeah, it won't be easy, but I'm sure it's doable.

And removing Jupiter will screw up the whole Solar System, since we're removing the largest planet from the gravitational equation.
 

Tigranes

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I think some way to bring Jupiter with us and chat with the Masters is the best way overall. Gives us at least some leverage to get maximum infodump before a reset if required, or w emight find some solution there. I'll figure out what my actual vote should be in a few hours.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Oh please. We already have a black hole instead of Uranus. Removing Jupiter from the premises can't be much worse.
I'm actually surprised more "preserve the sun/earth!" people don't realize the solar system is likely already screwed because of this... Even if the black hole doesn't create major problems by throwing off the gravity of the entire solar system - altering the orbit of asteroids or comets so that they fly into Earth, messing with the orbits of the other planets so that they crash into Earth and/or screw up the Earth's tides - the Great Devourer could awaken any time and straight up EAT Earth with everyone on it. We'd end up with a situation like we had with Kyrie, where sparing her (sort of) killed her (sort of).
 

Baltika9

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Well, in a infiltration we have Tree-Ean, who killed Naram-Master, Senya who can kill everything, Rei who can create everything, Sek for scientific expertise and possibly Spirits and Deities of the Empire.
Do we get acess to our giant mech in the sneak option? In the cosmic scale, a giant mech is a speck. It would give us a edge, they don't have varidja to take blackholes to the chest and live.
You'll have a small, fast ship full of named characters. And mechs, of course.

As for Ean's power I addressed that in a previous post, strong enough. :lol:
Yeah, we have mechs. And the beauty of 3C is that we don't need to kill their reality. All we need to do is take out the dickcheeses, raid their databases and we're golden.

Our broteam should be enough for that, I think.
 

Anabanana

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Uh. Okay. So, one thing about destroying their dimension completely. Remember our encounter with the master earlier? Treave said that tearing apart his dimension then would've caused the grey ghosts to invade. What if by blowing their dimension up, we simply bring about the ghostpocalypse?
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Also, we don't want to straight-out kill the Masters, we want to stop their game and stop the Ghost Apocalypse, which seems to be accomplished by turning Senya into the Observer.
Did you consider the Ghost Apocalypse may be their goal though? If Sek and Ean know, don't you think the Masters know about the data loss? Why create and destroy entire universes if you know it's going to cause a meltdown, unless that's your plan - or part of it at least?

No, the Masters must die. Look at the name they chose for themselves. Not "guardians" or "saviors", but "Masters". THEY want to become, or at least *control* the observer and they've already spilled the blood of countless trillions to do it. My suspicion is that one Master may want to make us or Rei into a pseudo observer - though forever controlled by them somehow.

Don't say I didn't warn you about Earth and the devourer...
 

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