Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Magic the Gathering Arena

Ranselknulf

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,880,087
Location
Best America
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
EsBoaQUXMAQrte7.png%3Alarge


Look out Luka, wh*te getting a turn 3 board wipe.

dont get me started. 1 year from now white will get 3 mana sorcery 'destroy all creatures you dont control'

Seems only fair with all the OP creature spam they've done.

That's really not THAT powerful of a card compared to what is already out there also.

If it was exile all creatures it might make me more excited. There are a LOT of creatures in standard with indestructible currently, and I had to up my exile game when the last set rotation started. For comparison, extinction event lets you mass exile creatures and its only 4 mana cost

Image.ashx




What white is lacking right now is a low cost remove "everything" from game type card.

Planar Cleanse was my go to card before it rotated out of standard.

m20-033-planar-cleansing.png



Now I'm stuck trying to make Ondu Inversion work, but at least I got a full set of Planar Cleanses for when I finally get into historic.

ondu-inversion-26951-medium.jpg
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
EsBoaQUXMAQrte7.png%3Alarge


Look out Luka, wh*te getting a turn 3 board wipe.

Turn 3 board wipe seems very situational, but I guess its nice for the people who go balls to the wall aggro and have their entire hand cast by turn 3.
You technically don't HAVE to cast it on turn 3, either. Can have it floating around in the ether, safe from discard/hand hate, and then pull it out of your ass later when your opponent either floods the board or plays a big threat. And at that point it only ran you 3 mana so you still have mana up for counters.
 

Ranselknulf

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,880,087
Location
Best America
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
EsBoaQUXMAQrte7.png%3Alarge


Look out Luka, wh*te getting a turn 3 board wipe.

Turn 3 board wipe seems very situational, but I guess its nice for the people who go balls to the wall aggro and have their entire hand cast by turn 3.
You technically don't HAVE to cast it on turn 3, either. Can have it floating around in the ether, safe from discard/hand hate, and then pull it out of your ass later when your opponent either floods the board or plays a big threat. And at that point it only ran you 3 mana so you still have mana up for counters.

Agreed, it is a nice card.

White has been lacking an effective means to counter the perfect early game full aggro assault.

Black had cards like witches vengeance which can usually deal with archetype spam (ie knights or rogues) early on.

Whites only strategy was to bend over and take it and hope that later life gain could make up for it.
 

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
735
Terror of Mount Velus is an under rated card, I call it my closure because with Purphoros it's won me more games then even Embercleave, Ugin, and Taunting Basher. Here is just one taste of how the basic combo works, play Purphoros then next turn use Purphoros to play play as many creatures can, with Terror of Mount Velus LAST.

Purporos gives ToMV Haste and ToMV gives all my creatures , including Purphoros who already hits like a tracker trailer, on the battle field double strike. It's taken games as I was losing hard, on the verge of defeat, into victories. And a lot of players aren't used to facing Purphoros or ToMV so they are unprepared usually.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
Getting awful fucking pissy about facing Yorion decks that have removal on 2-3-4-5 mana with 80 cards decks, then I change my deck and suddenly they have doom foretold at 4 and Elspeth conquers death at 5. It's fairly standard to be annoyed when your opponent's got the best card on-curve as it is, but when they're playing 80 card decks it's even worse. Especially when it's specifically a card that exiles rather than destroys when you're in a situation that matters and they have doom foretold in play so they can sac the saga when it flips back to them next turn.

GETTIN' ANGRY ABOUT CARD GAMES. LUKA WHAT DO I PLAY TO EXTERMINATE THE WH*TES
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Terror of Mount Velus is an under rated card, I call it my closure because with Purphoros it's won me more games then even Embercleave, Ugin, and Taunting Basher. Here is just one taste of how the basic combo works, play Purphoros then next turn use Purphoros to play play as many creatures can, with Terror of Mount Velus LAST.

Purporos gives ToMV Haste and ToMV gives all my creatures , including Purphoros who already hits like a tracker trailer, on the battle field double strike. It's taken games as I was losing hard, on the verge of defeat, into victories. And a lot of players aren't used to facing Purphoros or ToMV so they are unprepared usually.

Definitly underrated. A bit too expensive for constructed but that guy was a hourse in my Kaalia Dragon/Demon/Angel Brawl decks. Tutoring him on a drawn out board state with Kaalia wins games on the spot.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,157
state of the game is out.
tl;dr;
pc client is perfection, expect only bug fixes and new sets additions
only mobile from now on
moar mobile
and some other mobile

nothing about historic brawl, although we are getting another anthology at some point
 

Scruffy

Ex-janitor
Patron
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
18,150
Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
state of the game is out.
tl;dr;
pc client is perfection, expect only bug fixes and new sets additions
only mobile from now on
moar mobile
and some other mobile

nothing about historic brawl, although we are getting another anthology at some point
yes but

"you can also expect bug fixes and quality-of-life improvements in the weeks and months ahead".

I mean, there won't be any, but you CAN expect them
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
id play non lurrus rogues. Even more fun in historic. Those pesky yorion decks usually are light or pack no counter spells at all.
DAMNATION. Although I have played some rogues in historic and it is kind of fun. Just like it's nice to play mono blue tempo in historic and counter people ramping into Ugin and shit. Yorion was driving me up the fucking wall last night though, Jesus H Christ. Didn't help that when I bitched in here I'd been on a streak of 5 or so Yorion opponents.

Glad I've been hoarding gold like a maniac if another anthology's coming up. Still a bit annoyed at myself I skipped the first one but such is life.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
8,306
Location
Kelethin
Wow the game is so much fun now for control. I just played against another control deck and it was a rollercoaster! I had him at the start and then I totally ran out of steam and he chipped away at me down to 1hp! I nearly gave up a few times but hung in there and then I drew Erebos's Intervention, nuked his critter for almost 20. Then I made a comeback and he quit. Really epic battle though.. I even enjoy playing against aggro and combo. Aggro can beat me but not like it used to be with rdw.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,157
id play non lurrus rogues. Even more fun in historic. Those pesky yorion decks usually are light or pack no counter spells at all.
DAMNATION. Although I have played some rogues in historic and it is kind of fun. Just like it's nice to play mono blue tempo in historic and counter people ramping into Ugin and shit. Yorion was driving me up the fucking wall last night though, Jesus H Christ. Didn't help that when I bitched in here I'd been on a streak of 5 or so Yorion opponents.

Glad I've been hoarding gold like a maniac if another anthology's coming up. Still a bit annoyed at myself I skipped the first one but such is life.

im doing ok with this fun deck based on cgb shark nest
Companion
1 Jegantha, the Wellspring (IKO) 222

Deck
4 Eliminate (M21) 97
4 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
4 Clearwater Pathway (ZNR) 260
4 Thirst for Meaning (THB) 74
4 Jwari Disruption (ZNR) 64
2 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242
2 Forest (SLD) 108
5 Swamp (SLD) 105
3 Island (SLD) 102
3 Zagoth Triome (IKO) 259
3 Extinction Event (IKO) 88
2 Negate (ZNR) 71
4 Whirlwind Denial (THB) 81
3 Shark Typhoon (IKO) 67
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Muse (THB) 208
2 Garruk, Cursed Huntsman (ELD) 191
4 Titans' Nest (IKO) 212
4 Heartless Act (IKO) 91
1 Woe Strider (THB) 123

Sideboard
1 Jegantha, the Wellspring (IKO) 222

its in standard, I love to play around nest from time to time. Not for too long as its gameplay is annoying
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
im doing ok with this fun deck based on cgb shark nest
I'm still learning the game, so forgive the naive question: Does having only eight lands set you back for bringing cards onto the field?

4 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
4 Clearwater Pathway (ZNR) 260
2 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242
2 Forest (SLD) 108
5 Swamp (SLD) 105
3 Island (SLD) 102
3 Zagoth Triome (IKO) 259

These are all normal lands, for 23. Most of them enter untapped.

4 Jwari Disruption (ZNR) 64

These are lands aswell but they count only half since they enter tapped and you often want to use the spell side.

Looks like a solid landbase for control really. I'd make mine a little different but this looks competitive. 27 lands would be too high without those double lands, but 4 of them being spells aswell sounds just about right.
 

Catacombs

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
6,107
Is there a recommended amount of land worth keeping in your deck? I've read between 20-25.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Is there a recommended amount of land worth keeping in your deck? I've read between 20-25.

A normal deck should indeed be between 20 and 25. Extremely aggressive decks can dip below 20, although that is a massive gamble. Control can go higher, but then you need lands that can double down as spells like the 4 counterspell lands here.
I personally build most decks with 23 lands at first, and then experiment up or down depending on how often I experience manaflood or drought. That said most decks I built are somewhat midrange, as it's the playstile I like the most.

As a rule of thumb I'd say:
20 burn
21 aggro
22 tempo
23 midrange
24 control
25 grind/ramp

If any of these terms are foreign to you feel free to ask.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Is there a recommended amount of land worth keeping in your deck? I've read between 20-25.

Oh and a little trick if you want to go really nerdy:

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/kmliu/mtg_calculator.html

This is a calculator to find the odds of drawing specific cards like lands or combo pieces. You can set number of cards drawn to 7 and number of desired cards to your land count, and see how likely you are to be below 2 or above 4 lands. 2-4 lands is the opening hand sweetspot for most decks, most decks mulligan when they open 1 or 5+ lands.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,595
Is there a recommended amount of land worth keeping in your deck? I've read between 20-25.
26 isn't outlandish, there are decks that like to go as high as 28.

These are the two go-to articles when it comes to the math involved:
https://strategy.channelfireball.co...you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/
https://strategy.channelfireball.co...do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

Basically, you're trying to hit a sweet spot which balances three things for your deck - getting consistent land drops, getting the right colors of mana, not getting too much mana flood.

Getting consistent mana drops means being able to play a land on turn 1, turn 2, turn three, etc. Some decks can run optimally at just two lands, some want to stop at three-four, some decks
want all the fucking lands (typically stuff that ramps by playing extra lands). Then, you weight it against the chance of mana flooding.
There's a handy table in the first article, for example you want to build an aggro deck and want to decide between 20 and 22 lands:

20 lands 20 [98.9% / 98.3%] [86.4% / 79.6%] [65.8% / 55.2%] [44.1% / 33.7%] Flood: 3.9%
22 lands 22 [99.5% / 99.2%] [90.5% / 84.7%] [73.9% / 63.7%] [54.3% / 43.0%] Flood: 7.3%

As you can see, at 20 lands you have really good odds of getting three lands out (sometimes you'll wait for it for an extra turn or two), and then it falls of. If you might as well never see the fourth land, or can help dig for it with scry or draw, it's a good number.
You also get a very low chance to be flooded (though Arena shuffler will happily oblige)
In comparison, 22 lands gives you a 10% increase in consistency in drawing land number four. If your aggro deck is mana hungry and needs to get those four mana out, say you will want to reliably escape Phoenix of Ash,
may be worth considering going 22, even though the flood chance is almost doubled, it still looks manageable.

Can you go lower with aggro? Some play 18-19 lands. Reducing the risk of mana flood, thus you should pretty much topdeck nothing but gas. The trade off is you will get bad hands from time to time, forcing you to mulligan.
There are decks that can pull this off, e.g. mono blue tempo with plenty of draw from curious obsession can reliably get three lands this way if it gets its engines going. Most of its spells also cost only 1-2 mana,
so it can do anything it needs to with just two lands out.
Another example was a mono red deck with Wayward Guide-Beast which lets you bounce a land back, replay it untapped and get mana again. Fun deck to try in historic, it pretty much only
has 1 mana stuff. Lets you go really low on lands.

Another comparison, 24 and 25 lands:
24 lands [99.8% / 99.6%] [93.5% / 88.7%] [80.6% / 71.3%] [63.8% / 52.2%] Flood: 12.2%
25 lands [99.8% / 99.7%] [94.6% / 90.4%] [83.5% / 74.7%] [68.2% / 56.7%] Flood: 15.2%

As you can see, the % chance for dropping lands turn 3-5 are pretty much the same at this point, yet you end up with a rather high hance to flood (15%).
Personally, I don't like running 25 lands, I tend to just go 24 if it's important to go to 4 lands, or 26 if I'm playing control.

MtGA tends to reflect that math, there used to be some talk about exploiting the way shuffler fudges the draws in Bo1, but you should just focus on giving yourself enough mana
instead of trying to game the system and seeing how low you can go. This way you only need to worry about mana flood (when it happens, it happens, give yourself some draw, scry or mana sinks - cards that can use lots of mana), instead of both flood and short.

This is where the second factor comes in - giving yourself enough colored mana sources. At 20 lands, you might need to use all the dual lands you can get your hands on to get good odds of getting two colors (it'll be super tight, even then
it might be difficult to achieve double mana costs like 1BB and GG). Three colors is pretty much a no-go because there isn't enough lands for it. You need 22+ lands here.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom