Master of Orion Remake ? :O

Average Manatee · Sep 21, 2015

Bleh, those buildings. Sounds like its going to be micromanagement hell by mid/late game, like MoO2.

Resources looks like some kind of strategic resource thing? Might be interesting.

Research looks like you're only researching one thing at a time, which is lame. I liked the MoO1 system far better.

MRY · Sep 21, 2015

Average Manatee said:
Bleh, those buildings. Sounds like its going to be micromanagement hell by mid/late game, like MoO2.

I wonder whether it would work to have a MOO-style game where you have the development equivalent of linear tech-trees: so, like, you can choose one of four areas to develop your planet ("Production" "Research" "Defense" "Culture" or whatever, plus you could have them work on building a particular ship), and within each, you have certain thresholds, and when those thresholds are hit, you get a new building. In other words, from a player-control standpoint, you'd be picking one of four fields, rather than one of 63 buildings; but from the standpoint of "Wow, it feels neat to get X," you'd get announcements like, "Mentar II completed a Toxic Condenser."

My experience with MOO2 (with which I've gone through maybe three or four compulsive playing episodes over the decades) is that as a practical matter, those are basically the choices it boils down to, anyway. There's a little strategy in choosing between a pollution management facility and a production increasing facility, but almost always it's just a right-choice/wrong-choice within a given field. I dunno, seems like it might be a nice compromise between MOO and MOO2.

MRY · Sep 21, 2015

Right -- I'm saying that you could apply the same philosophy to planetary production. I think it might work, though I could imagine it causing issues when you are bombarded (e.g., would random buildings be destroyed, or would they come off the top; if random, would you be able to choose what to rebuild, or start at the bottom, etc.).

Average Manatee · Sep 21, 2015

MRY said:
I wonder whether it would work to have a MOO-style game where you have the development equivalent of linear tech-trees: so, like, you can choose one of four areas to develop your planet ("Production" "Research" "Defense" "Culture" or whatever, plus you could have them work on building a particular ship), and within each, you have certain thresholds, and when those thresholds are hit, you get a new building. In other words, from a player-control standpoint, you'd be picking one of four fields, rather than one of 63 buildings; but from the standpoint of "Wow, it feels neat to get X," you'd get announcements like, "Mentar II completed a Toxic Condenser."

My experience with MOO2 (with which I've gone through maybe three or four compulsive playing episodes over the decades) is that as a practical matter, those are basically the choices it boils down to, anyway. There's a little strategy in choosing between a pollution management facility and a production increasing facility, but almost always it's just a right-choice/wrong-choice within a given field. I dunno, seems like it might be a nice compromise between MOO and MOO2.

That's basically what MoO1 already does. Adding random building names is just clutter.

MRY · Sep 21, 2015

Doesn't MOO1 not let you build labs? Or am I misremembering?

The reason for adding tiers would be: (1) it would make development punctuated, rather than gradual (as technology is), which tends to improve the player experience in various ways (giving you something to look forward to); (2) the tiers could do something other than purely additive scorebuilding, which would diversify gameplay slightly.

Average Manatee · Sep 21, 2015

MoO1 has it so that your total slider output is based on industry, so building industry (which has multiple tiers, first you build industry to the current max, then you invest in miniaturization so you can build more industry, then you go back and repeat with the next tier costing more) is what increases your research rate, assuming you then portion off the slider from improving industry to research. Other sliders go for cleaning waste/terraforming/pop growth, building ships, and planetary shields/missile bases/upgrading

RayF · Sep 22, 2015

Average Manatee said:
MoO1 has it so that your total slider output is based on industry, so building industry (which has multiple tiers, first you build industry to the current max, then you invest in miniaturization so you can build more industry, then you go back and repeat with the next tier costing more) is what increases your research rate

There's no investing in miniaturization in MOO1. If you want to increase your production, you research Terraforming to increase your planet population and Robotic Controls to increase your factories per population ratio. Researching Waste Reduction also helps, but is incidental.

Miniaturization in MOO1 affects ship components and is controlled by your research level in the appropriate technology category.

Average Manatee · Sep 22, 2015

Yeah robotic controls. Basically miniaturization IMO, lets you stuff more onto planets. Forgot the words.

RayF · Sep 22, 2015

MRY said:
Doesn't MOO1 not let you build labs? Or am I misremembering?

MOO1 lets you build factories to increase overall production, which can then be funnelled via sliders to ships, defense, ecology, research or more industry.

The only colony improvements in MOO1 are the factories, missile bases, planetary shields and a stargate.

RayF · Sep 22, 2015

Average Manatee said:
Yeah robotic controls. Basically miniaturization IMO, lets you stuff more onto planets. Forgot the words.

It's an old game!

Space Satan · Sep 22, 2015

They said there will be governor system. Should it be even half decent as SMAC had micro would not be a problem. Even a primitive option for planet to produce buildings only would be enough for sprawling.

Destroid · Sep 22, 2015

I think MRY's idea is sound. It's a middle ground between the homogeneous worlds of MoO1 and the building hell of late game MoO2. Having it 'pop' when you hit thresholds causes annoying micromanagement optimisations though, unless you lag reallocation of development or use some other mechanic to stop it. In MoO1's case the improvements come in large quantities at a time but I can see how that would be less desirable when you are trying to make people feel special about improving their colonies or cities.

RayF · Sep 22, 2015

Destroid said:
I think MRY's idea is sound. It's a middle ground between the homogeneous worlds of MoO1 and the building hell of late game MoO2. Having it 'pop' when you hit thresholds causes annoying micromanagement optimisations though,

There will always be annoying micromanagement optimizations when people learn how the underlying code works.

I think there could me more colony diversity in MOO1, but fine-tuning colony management seems like you're already putting one foot in the micromanagement grave. I think a better approach is to instead convert certain colonies into tactical resources. These could be scaled to create variety in the endgame.

Example 1: Resources based on the star
The Radiated world orbiting Tau Cygni is not just any radiated world. It orbits Tau Cygni, which is a neutron star and thus controlling this system allows its owner to research Neutronium Armor and allows it to build ships with that metal. This system may not be attractive in the early game, but could become a critical system as the game develops. This is similar to the resource system in Civ where some resources require technology to use.

Example 2: Improvements based on technology
The Gaia Terraforming technology could be reworked so that learning it allows a player to convert any Fertile world to a Gaia planet (as now). However, gaia planets lose all of their factories and their ability to produce any industry. In return, they export food and increase the population capacity of any allied planet within 1 travel turn by 60 points. This requires the player to tactically place his gaia planets to maximize their output and makes them prime targets for attack.

Example 3: Resources based on events
A colony could discover some rare resource that has empire-wide benefits for anyone who controls the system. Obvious analogy to Dune is obvious.

Example 4: Improvements based on diplomacy/expansion
The first player to make contact with all other races gets the opportunity to build a UN type building to facilitate intergalactic relations. The player can build on any colony except his homeworld, but his location could provide diplomatic/espionage benefits based on the relative distance to other races' homeworlds. Whomever controls the colony gets the benefits that come with controlling the UN.

Those are just some ideas.

kyrub · Sep 22, 2015

Lovely ideas. (I am looking forward to your game, Ray!)

I always thought some of the planet environments should have had some extra defense effects.
Example:
- Jungle planet is very hard to take with ground attack
- Ocean planet with underwater cities is hard to bomb conventionally (targets not visible from orbit)
- Low life planets resistant to bio weapons (no spreading)

Space Satan · Sep 22, 2015

Malakal · Sep 23, 2015

Eh this looks like Stardrive which in turn looks like MoO with better graphics. Guess the circle is complete now.

Space Satan · Sep 23, 2015

Some info:
1. Each colony can have a focus.(could be set for entire empire as well from colony management screen)
2. Two battle options - Tactical and Autobattle
3. Each race have a preferred planet type(Sakkra - swamp, mrrshan - desert etc.)
4. Planets could be flagged for spcecial interest and quick access.
5. Some population units can go "on strike"
6. Planets may have special resources which improves one aspect, foe example Adamantin increases ship production.
7. Three types of buildings: planet, orbital and astro(like asteroid mines)
8. Space monsters. Space pirates are new barbarians.
9. At least three options for spies - gather information, spread unrest and sabotage.

Morblot · Sep 23, 2015

Is that the Civ V diplomacy screen?

RayF · Sep 23, 2015

I've always liked Trade Tables in 4X games because that's exactly how real diplomacy works... it's a little known fact that the back of the United Nations has an flea market area where diplomats hawk their nation's wares.