Max Payne 1 & 2 Discussion

[Ol' Willy]

I am going to play Max Payne 1 with the first person mod and there is nothing you can do to stop me!

 

[KIss My Ass]

Only played MP3. It had good shooting but otherwise it was a repetitive piece of crap. Way too many cutscenes, boring story. I was ready for it to be over after a few hours and then it went on forever. Control shits right in it's mouth. Does literally everything better.

 

[Tehdagah]

I remember Max Payne 1 being a hitscan fest.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I remember Max Payne 1 being a hitscan fest.

It's 100% projectile based, you can see it well in the video above, especially in the second part in the darker environment

 

[MasPingon]

I remember Max Payne 1 being a hitscan fest.

 

[Jvegi]

Only played MP3. It had good shooting but otherwise it was a repetitive piece of crap. Way too many cutscenes, boring story. I was ready for it to be over after a few hours and then it went on forever. Control shits right in it's mouth. Does literally everything better.

Dude, get an old laptop, make it uncollectable to the internet, so you can't watch porn, and play some real fucking games. This is almost as sad as the drinking shit.

 

[Outlander]

2:58 shoots him right in the sack!

 

[Ash]

Wait wait wait, I initially read that post as claiming MP to be the "best third person shooter of all time", which is dumb but at least understandable on some level. But no, the claim was actually best third person action game of all time, which suddenly opens it up to thousands of competing games. Max Payne is like a 7.5, 8/10 at absolute maximum generosity. This place is absurd.

And now another inane Roguey post too:

[The Punisher] Max Payne clone that gets really bad with the final levels.

Firstly, the punisher is supposedly a Max Payne "clone" when it has three times the gameplay complexity? I mean yeah, the storytelling and the gunplay might just be inspired by it, maybe, but calling a game which is vastly more complex than the game it supposedly is inspired by a "clone" of it is absurd.
Secondly, late game levels are "really bad" why? I enjoyed them. Got too hard for you did they, Mr. Codex Casual?

[Heretic 2] A first-person game with a clunky-feeling third-person mode.

What in the world? You don't get to redefine what a third person shooter is under your arbitrary rules. It is a shooter played from the third person perspective as the default, and was clearly designed that way with intent. Don't move the goal posts.

[Resident evil 4] Over-the-shoulder third person shooters feel so different from full-body tps that I wouldn't put them in the same category.

This is called moving the goal posts some more. Nice try, but no.

[The Saboteur]I liked this, but it's a kitchen sink game that tries to do a lot of things (driving, shooting, stealth) and as a result doesn't do any one thing spectacularly well.

So? You just described every RPG. Does that mean every action game is better than every RPG? No. The game is obviously a sum of its parts.

[Duke Nukem: Zero Hour] Never played. Nintendo 64? Pfft.

What if I told you a black & white gameboy game, a NES game, or even a mobile game can all be better than Max Payne? Game design & the execution of it is largely what defines the quality of a game. Dummy.

@Porky: Max Payne is not representative of TPS as a whole. There's numerous styles and sub genres, worry not. Stay away from the cover shooters and there is a lot of fun to be found, though rarely anything truly great. Don't listen to most in general gaming it is filled with casuals. The only one that actually has played nearly all the games I mentioned as alternatives is Roguey, which is hilarious as he would even acknowledge himself to be a casual/is a long-standing casual of the 'dex.

 

[Roguey]

Secondly, late game levels are "really bad" why? I enjoyed them. Got too hard for you did they, Mr. Codex Casual?

I haven't played it in someting close to 20 years but I remember a very obnoxious level that had a really large number of constantly respawning enemies and something involving elevators, and a vague recollection that the last boss was an annoying health sponge.

What in the world? You don't get to redefine what a third person shooter is under your arbitrary rules. It is a shooter played from the third person perspective as the default, and was clearly designed that way with intent. Don't move the goal posts.

Heretic 2 uses idtech which is an engine made for first person shooters and absolutely feels like it. Much like how Bethesda's games have an optional third person mode, but it sure it feels lousier playing them that way.

What in the world? You don't get to redefine what a third person shooter is under your arbitrary rules. It is a shooter played from the third person perspective as the default, and was clearly designed that way with intent. Don't move the goal posts.

First person shooters don't feel like third person shooters don't feel like over the shoulder third person shooters. All are shooters, each in their distinct subcategory.

So? You just described every RPG. Does that mean every action game is better than every RPG? No. The game is obviously a sum of its parts.

As a shooter, Saboteur isn't as good as the Paynes. As a game? Eh, maybe.

 

[Wunderbar]

If they'll try to standarize his appearance in remake, I hope they choose the first incarnation.

it's going to be de-aged James McCaffrey.

 

[Tehdagah]

I remember Max Payne 1 being a hitscan fest.

It's 100% projectile based, you can see it well in the video above, especially in the second part in the darker environment

Very fast projectiles.

 

[Ash]

I haven't played it in someting close to 20 years but I remember a very obnoxious level that had a really large number of constantly respawning enemies and something involving elevators, and a vague recollection that the last boss was an annoying health sponge.

Yeah you got owned

Heretic 2 uses idtech which is an engine made for first person shooters and absolutely feels like it. Much like how Bethesda's games have an optional third person mode, but it sure it feels lousier playing them that way.

That is often how TPS were in their initial stages, and they were better for it. As in 100% responsive controls and movement, not staggered movement bound by the characters animations because realism and retardation as in modern games. Duke Nukem: Zero Hour, which you just dismissed, is another game like this. Part of why it is so good. But there are even 2000s era as well as modern TPS that play that way too. It's a good thing.

RE4 stuff

Jesus Christ. A third person shooter by definition is no longer a third person shooter, because Roguey says so

As a shooter, Saboteur isn't as good as the Paynes. As a game? Eh, maybe

Whoo progress! Though of all the games discussed, I'd say Sabotuer is the least superior to Max Payne, if at all. I shouldn't have name-dropped that one. I'd probably rather replay MP than Sabotuer....maybe. Destroy all Humans 2 on the other hand I may swap in place of it. Fun.

I remember Max Payne 1 being a hitscan fest.

It's 100% projectile based, you can see it well in the video above, especially in the second part in the darker environment

Very fast projectiles.

Exactly. It's a realism shooter. No melee, no dodgeable projectiles (not by skill, but by pressing the magic slo mo button every chance you get), it is largely hitscan in how it plays, even if technically everything is projectile-based - you ain't dodging shit unless you're in bullet time.

 

[Sjukob]

Exactly. It's a realism shooter. No melee, no dodgeable projectiles (not by skill, but by pressing the magic slo mo button every chance you get), it is largely hitscan in how it plays, even if technically everything is projectile-based - you ain't dodging shit unless you're in bullet time.

Oh shit, look at me go


The stuff you wrote about Max Payne in this topic is so ignorant and you seem to be so dead set on it, I guess that it's pointless to even try to reason with you.

 

[Ash]

Fair, I haven't played the game in like 15 years so some finer details may elude me.

It just ain't that good. I like the atmosphere & story more than the barely passable repetitive gameplay. The gameplay is largely popping dudes in corridoors endlessly, literally nothing more, just like Porky is experiencing right now. Very rarely does it mix it up. if I recall, MP2 got a little bit more creative, but it is still barebones and repetitive at its core.
The core IS still good, despite the barebones nature & repetition don't get me wrong, but like I said, #10 TPS of all time at absolute best, largely because of the story and atmosphere carrying the OK gameplay. TP Action games on the whole? #60. I find it ludicrous to imply it is the greatest TP action game of all time when the gameplay is so basic & repetitive. What an insult to many great games out there.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The terrible level design reminds me of F.E.A.R., but at least F.E.A.R. had great gunplay.

 

[Tehdagah]

Exactly. It's a realism shooter. No melee, no dodgeable projectiles (not by skill, but by pressing the magic slo mo button every chance you get), it is largely hitscan in how it plays, even if technically everything is projectile-based - you ain't dodging shit unless you're in bullet time.

Oh shit, look at me go


The stuff you wrote about Max Payne in this topic is so ignorant and you seem to be so dead set on it, I guess that it's pointless to even try to reason with you.

You got hit twice.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Exactly. It's a realism shooter. No melee, no dodgeable projectiles (not by skill, but by pressing the magic slo mo button every chance you get), it is largely hitscan in how it plays, even if technically everything is projectile-based - you ain't dodging shit unless you're in bullet time.

Oh shit, look at me go


The stuff you wrote about Max Payne in this topic is so ignorant and you seem to be so dead set on it, I guess that it's pointless to even try to reason with you.

It's amazing how anytime someone mentions a perfectly valid point online, immediately some autists will appear in hordes to dispute it. This guy above presents a video where someone is rolling around like a retard as a valid gameplay approach.

 

[Ash]

The terrible level design reminds me of F.E.A.R., but at least F.E.A.R. had great gunplay.

If you keep going, you will find a couple of interesting level setups. Not many, but the ragnarok is a epic shootout in a club with enemies swarming all around, there's a bit on an elevator which forces you to play a strict way, warehouse part with tricky enemy placement everywhere, refinery with spilled molten metal which you will totally dive into more than once. Still, definitely don't want to hype it up. The level design isn't the worst thing in the world but it is definitely a notable weakness of the game, gameplay-wise. For the most part outside of some rare interesting setups it's just 1:1 real-world inspired spaces with the only divergence from that for the sake of gameplay being locked, inaccessible doors to create a particular flow (as with any other game). Lame.

 

[Wunderbar]

gross, another faux-retro souls-like.

 

[Sjukob]

It's amazing how anytime someone mentions a perfectly valid point online, immediately some autists will appear in hordes to dispute it. This guy above presents a video where someone is rolling around like a retard as a valid gameplay approach

Interesting, do you think the same way when you see gameplay of an action game, like say Devil May Cry or God Hand, where the player regularly has to avoid attacks of the large groups of enemies, and that somebody who uses dodge a lot is a retard? What is the thought process here? Do you hate the player for using one tool that developers gave him specifically for avoiding taking damage? Are people who use screwdrivers to unscrew the screws retarded too?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

It's amazing how anytime someone mentions a perfectly valid point online, immediately some autists will appear in hordes to dispute it. This guy above presents a video where someone is rolling around like a retard as a valid gameplay approach

Interesting, do you think the same way when you see gameplay of an action game, like say Devil May Cry or God Hand, where the player regularly has to avoid attacks of the large groups of enemies, and that somebody who uses dodge a lot is a retard? What is the thought process here? Do you hate the player for using one tool that developers gave him specifically for avoiding taking damage? Are people who use screwdrivers to unscrew the screws retarded too?

Whoever made that video is just taking advantage of AI issues. That is not the intended way to dodge in MP, which is using the bulletime side jump. And dodging is not really required, you can get by without it in most cases.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Codex's worst at it again

 

[Ol' Willy]

Exactly. It's a realism shooter. No melee, no dodgeable projectiles (not by skill, but by pressing the magic slo mo button every chance you get), it is largely hitscan in how it plays, even if technically everything is projectile-based - you ain't dodging shit unless you're in bullet time.

Oh shit, look at me go


The stuff you wrote about Max Payne in this topic is so ignorant and you seem to be so dead set on it, I guess that it's pointless to even try to reason with you.

Cover > rolling

 

[Sjukob]

Whoever made that video is just taking advantage of AI issues.

Are you serious? Any tactic in any single player video game can be described like that, does it make all of them invalid somehow?

That is not the intended way to dodge in MP, which is using the bulletime side jump.

According to who, you? Is it somehow the wrong way to play the game? Then why is Max completely immune to bullets during dodge roll, but not during shoot dodge? Even bosses and occasional mooks try to avoid your shots by dodge rolling.

Cover > rolling

I am glad to have shooting games that can be played without relying on cover much.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Just shortly after Dead Space 1 FPP mod release there's another FPP mod that I just managed to finish.
huh
why not play it like a FEAR without slow-mo-stand-still-likea-bitch mode on hard? Can't catch bullets going sideway fast without slowing...