Max Payne 1 & 2 Discussion

[Outlander]

The sun went down with practiced bravado.

The rain was coming down like all the angels in Heaven decided to take a piss at the same time. When you're in a situation like mine, you can only think in metaphors.

 

[index.php]

 

[Abhay]

Sequel started great but I lost the interest midway. Just pointless shootouts and confrontation with the same enemy type without any challenge.

The first one is awesome. Don't understand the criticism of the puzzle or dream sequences which forms only 1% of the total action.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Maybe it is the baby duck syndrome, but for me Max Payne 1 is one of the greatest games ever created. If only we had Steam back then, I guess, my time count in this game would be around 500+ hours (mods, experiments, custom levels and stuff).

MP2 was okay I guess. Still, first signs of decay and self-repeatedness.

MP3 was a disaster (yes I know this is not Remedy), the movie too.

The last great game from Remedy was Alan Wake, 10 years ago.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Were there any good mods for 2? I remember 1 had some cyber samurai stuff where opponents took longer than Duke Nukem forever to kill.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Were there any good mods for 2? I remember 1 had some cyber samurai stuff where opponents took longer than Duke Nukem forever to kill.

No idea.
But I can definitely recommend a hundred of decent mods for 1.
...if they are still out there to download of course

 

[Ol' Willy]

Damn, Max Payne 1. The masterpiece. The legend.

I like second game, but yeah, the first is better.

 

[Multidirectional]

I keep dreaming about Max Payne 1 with Max Payne 2 physics, now that would be perfection. Still, both are great but Max Payne 1 I guess feels more complete, second one is always over too soon and the story isn't anywhere as satisfying. Shooting never gets old though and those havoc physics add a lot of charm to it.

Spoiler

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Lords and Ladies! Man, I love these games to bits. Not 3.

 

[Dodo1610]

I always prefered The Fall of May Payne. The gameplay is so much more fluid and the game doesn't have these awful nightmare sequences, most importantly the level design, more verticality and a lot fewer trial and error moments.
The first game of course literally changed the video game industry overnight, the presentation was unlike anything we have seen before, the gunplay was revolutionary and the setting was so much more down to earth than most shooters at the time.
Even Max Payne 3 is fun the gunplay and the hit feedback (most games still don't have bullet wounds to this day) are nearly unmatched to this day and the soundtrack by HEALTH is one of the best I have ever heard. Sadly Rockstar made the dumb decision to change most things

 

[Lemming42]

Max Payne 2's physics and gunplay are cool but the story is so tedious and told in such a sombre way that it sucks all the fun out for me.

Max Payne 1's ridiculous campiness is just as crucial to the game's success as the revolutionary game mechanics are. Max Payne 2 builds on those mechanics fantastically but lacks Sam Lake's shit-eating grin, Max grimly joking his way through everything, and the entire story takes itself seriously in a way that Max Payne 1 never did - quite the opposite, Max Payne 1 seemed to be taking the piss half the time. Nothing in Max Payne 2 even comes close to the beautifully manic shit in MP1's final act, with the underground lab explosion and the inexplicable attack helicopter chasing you across the side of the skyscraper.

Max Payne 2 has plenty of merits but, when gaming history is looked back on, Max Payne 1 is going to be the game people idolise and go back to play for years to come, with Max Payne 2 as a footnote and Max Payne 3 best left unmentioned.

I don't mind the dream sequences in Max Payne either - the only properly bullshit part is the blood maze but I feel like people overstate how bad it is. It does suck but as long as your hand-eye-coordination is on par with the average chimpanzee, you'll spend no more than 5 minutes tops on it.

 

[Kainan]

Anyway, I really disliked the lack of level diversity in MP2. Almost everywhere was a warehouse with crates. Yeah, MP1 had some janky stuff, but the rooftop chase, the Deep Six bunker, Punchinello's mansion and Aesir Corp were cooler places to have a fight than anything in the sequel.

I agree that MP1 had more memorable locations in general, especially early in the game, but I think MP2's levels actually had more diversity in terms of gameplay, as they got a bit more creative with the encounter design. Better AI of course helped in that as well. It's true that many levels take place in warehouses or buildings that are under construction or renovation, but hey, how the fuck would you show off with the physics engine without a ton of boxes and explosive barrels lying around?

MP1 actually had better AI just for the fact the enemies were often scripted to hole up and cover fire, or to retreat. This made for some movie like scenes where you had to do some heroics.
In MP2 they just home in on you. When you are in cover i remember it ingrained just hearing footstepes aproaching.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

the only properly bullshit part is the blood maze but I feel like people overstate how bad it

It's mad easy once you realise where the exit is.

 

[schru]

I played Max Payne and Max Payne 2 years after both games had come out. The first one was excellent, the action flowed great and the self-aware campiness worked very well. I played the sequel immediately afterwards and didn't like it at all: the combat didn't have the same cool style, the story took itself too seriously and just wasn't interesting, the physics were rather silly.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Max Payne 2's physics and gunplay are cool but the story is so tedious and told in such a sombre way that it sucks all the fun out for me.

Max Payne 1's ridiculous campiness is just as crucial to the game's success as the revolutionary game mechanics are. Max Payne 2 builds on those mechanics fantastically but lacks Sam Lake's shit-eating grin, Max grimly joking his way through everything, and the entire story takes itself seriously in a way that Max Payne 1 never did - quite the opposite, Max Payne 1 seemed to be taking the piss half the time. Nothing in Max Payne 2 even comes close to the beautifully manic shit in MP1's final act, with the underground lab explosion and the inexplicable attack helicopter chasing you across the side of the skyscraper.

Max Payne 2 has plenty of merits but, when gaming history is looked back on, Max Payne 1 is going to be the game people idolise and go back to play for years to come, with Max Payne 2 as a footnote and Max Payne 3 best left unmentioned.

I don't mind the dream sequences in Max Payne either - the only properly bullshit part is the blood maze but I feel like people overstate how bad it is. It does suck but as long as your hand-eye-coordination is on par with the average chimpanzee, you'll spend no more than 5 minutes tops on it.

I believe the only spark of that same campy style in MP2 was that Gognitti's scene:

 

[Carrion]

MP1 actually had better AI just for the fact the enemies were often scripted to hole up and cover fire, or to retreat.

MP1 didn't really even have an AI. It had a bunch of scripts that played out exactly the same way every time, and the enemies made up for their lack of brain with their superhuman reflexes and ability to take several shotgun blasts to the face without dying.

Like I've probably said in this thread, I've finished MP1 probably more often than any other game, but after MP2 came out, the sequel's mainly been the game I go to when I need the Max Payne fix. I try to sum it up here:

Things that Max Payne 1 does better:

• Level design / atmosphere. I think that especially the early levels in the shitty parts of New York are the strongest, most atmospheric stuff in the MP games. I don't think the first game is all that stellar in this regard, though, as the middle part features some fairly generic locations (the harbor), and I never really liked the cold steel factory either, even though many people seem to like it a lot. Still, it beats the second game where nearly every level feels like a construction site, probably because that allowed them to fill the levels with explosives, cardboard boxes and other things that allowed them to show off their physics. Even the levels set in the NY streets don't have that same atmosphere as MP1.
  
• Weapons. I slightly prefer the look, sound and feel of many of MP1's guns, and your arsenal's a bit bigger as well.
• Enemy variety. You've got hobos, gansters, commandos, men in black...
  
• Length. Both are short games, but MP2 has even fewer levels, with an even bigger portion of non-combat ones. Some recycled levels as well.
  
• Sam Lake's face. It's the face of Max Payne.

Things that Max Payne 2 does better:

• Combat. This is a huge one, obviously, and there are a few factors at play here. The AI is one thing, as it makes the gunfights slightly less predictable, and the enemies behave more realistically. There are no HP sponges either, and headshots are lethal. In MP1 they probably couldn't have big encounters without it being murder on people's computers, so they made up for it by enemies being able to take obscene amounts of punishment. No such problem in MP2. The sequel also has slightly more variety in its encounters, with more use of verticality and level architecture to give you different types of challenges. Then there are the physics and the death animations. Yeah, ragdolls became boring at some point, but MP2 still has some of the better ones out there. Compared to many games of the time (like No One Lives Forever and Soldier of Fortune), it was a shame how MP1's enemies usually just lazily fell over when they died. You throw a grenade at a group of enemies, and they all fly across the room in the exact same way, because there's just one animation for that. Killing in MP2 is just a bit more fun, especially since I like to replay each fight until I manage to kill the enemies in the most entertaining way possible.
  
• The story. As has been said, MP1's story is ridiculous, and I'm not sure how much of that is intentional. It starts as this noir revenge story (which is the best part) until starts mixing in mob wars, X-files stuff, super soldiers and whatever else Sam Lake could think of. I can see the appeal, but I was never a huge fan of all that late-game stuff. MP2 is more consistent with its tone, and I think a more personal, low-key story fits Max Payne better. I also don't know what some of you are going on about — MP2 has a ton of humor in it. I love how surreal it gets at some point.

Debatable:

• Bullet Time. They changed this quite a bit from MP1 to MP2, and I guess you could make an argument for either game. I know some people dislike the regen in MP2, but I can't say it bothered me. MP2 has some minor but significant improvements like being able to keep shooting from the ground after shootdodging, although I found the instant reloading a bit too over the top.

tl;dr: Ultimately it all comes down to combat, and that's where I think MP2 is the better game.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Max Payne 2's physics and gunplay are cool but the story is so tedious and told in such a sombre way that it sucks all the fun out for me.

Max Payne 1's ridiculous campiness is just as crucial to the game's success as the revolutionary game mechanics are. Max Payne 2 builds on those mechanics fantastically but lacks Sam Lake's shit-eating grin, Max grimly joking his way through everything, and the entire story takes itself seriously in a way that Max Payne 1 never did - quite the opposite, Max Payne 1 seemed to be taking the piss half the time. Nothing in Max Payne 2 even comes close to the beautifully manic shit in MP1's final act, with the underground lab explosion and the inexplicable attack helicopter chasing you across the side of the skyscraper.

Max Payne 2 has plenty of merits but, when gaming history is looked back on, Max Payne 1 is going to be the game people idolise and go back to play for years to come, with Max Payne 2 as a footnote and Max Payne 3 best left unmentioned.

I don't mind the dream sequences in Max Payne either - the only properly bullshit part is the blood maze but I feel like people overstate how bad it is. It does suck but as long as your hand-eye-coordination is on par with the average chimpanzee, you'll spend no more than 5 minutes tops on it.

I believe the only spark of that same campy style in MP2 was that Gognitti's scene:

After clearing this level, I kept a separate save just to shoot this fuck.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The story. As has been said, MP1's story is ridiculous, and I'm not sure how much of that is intentional. It starts as this noir revenge story (which is the best part) until starts mixing in mob wars, X-files stuff, super soldiers and whatever else Sam Lake could think of.

I don't see anything ridiculous about MP1 story. It's the story of revenge, and going down the line Max starts to uncover more and more. The story revolves around Psycho-like drug V and the unfortunate fact that Max's wife knew too much about it.

MP2 story, though. I don't even remember it clearly. Mona is alive, Vlad is an asshole now, Cleaners everywhere. What was this all about? Vlad wanted to do something? I can't even remember it now.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Vlad was taking over. Never fear, Vlad is here.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Ragnarock became Vodka...and that's pretty much sums it up for Remedy.

 

[CyberWhale]

Both are p. good.

 

[JDR13]

I really enjoyed both games back in the day. I never got into MP 3 though. Is it really that bad?

 

[Carrion]

I don't see anything ridiculous about MP1 story. It's the story of revenge, and going down the line Max starts to uncover more and more. The story revolves around Psycho-like drug V and the unfortunate fact that Max's wife knew too much about it.

It was discussed on the last page, but basically it's a mishmash of different ideas like a kid wrote it and chose to include every cool thing he could think of. It starts off as a noir revenge story and goes off the rails somewhere past the half-way point. The conspiracy is nonsense, as is the character of Nicole Horne, and often the whole thing comes off as a parody even though it's probably not intended as such. I still like it despite its flaws, but MP2 really is a much better written game overall.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

like a kid wrote it and chose to include every cool thing he could think of.

and for some reason it worked.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I really enjoyed both games back in the day. I never got into MP 3 though. Is it really that bad?

Yeah, it's just reskinned GTA offspring from GTA devs.