Does anyone remember what they originally described? I vaguely recall it was similar to a phase-based system? How about a quote?Is anyone aware of RPGs with a combat system similar to what they originally described?
Does anyone remember what they originally described? I vaguely recall it was similar to a phase-based system? How about a quote?Is anyone aware of RPGs with a combat system similar to what they originally described?
Does anyone remember what they originally described? I vaguely recall it was similar to a phase-based system? How about a quote?Is anyone aware of RPGs with a combat system similar to what they originally described?
Jim the Dinosaur I saw your post in the shoutbox from last week. The game will be turn-based, but with simultaneous real-time resolution. It's slightly different from phase-based where everyone acts at the same time. It's this weird middle ground between turn-based, phase-based and real-time xD
Units will roll for initiative and be placed in a turn order, each turn will be separated by a discrete unit of time.
When the game comes to a player unit's turn, the game will stop and wait for player input. When the player issues a command to their unit, the game will play out the unit's issued command in real-time until the next player unit turn where the game will stop and wait for player input again. When a unit has completed their turn, they will go back into the wait queue.
It's still a turn-based game because each unit will have their own discrete turn and the game stops and waits for a player's input on their turn. The game is bereft of the time-critical element that many people dislike about RT/wP combat. The staggered simultaneous real-time resolution of unit actions is different though and one of the things I've been focusing my feedback on is helping to make sure that the game takes advantage of the strengths of this unique combat system.
Recently in another thread I gave an example of how the use of grenades will likely differ from straight turn-based (or phase-based). In turn-based games usually you select a grenade, click where you want to throw it and the animation plays and you deal some damage to targets in the area of effect. In Copper Dreams, grenades will take time to throw and time to explode, so if you just throw a grenade at some enemies, they might move out of the AoE explosion radius if their turn is coming up soon - so you will have to use strategy, tactics, movement and positioning to make your grenade throws count.
Sensuki, I hope you understand that if this game system lead by you fails we will force you to apologize to Sawyer![]()
It's not led by me. I did not create the system at all. Hannah and Joe did. I really like the system they came up with and have made an effort to understand how it works, to provide useful feedback.
Infinitron said:Can you queue actions? That's required to maximize your efficiency when using actions that take less than the space of a turn. Probably too complex to design the UI for it though.
The system is designed so that a unit can perform one action per turn. Some actions include an optional short move but I believe if they don't take it, they'll go back into the wait queue faster than other characters.
How I think these 'combined' actions will work (from what Joe and I discussed) is that if the player wants to move a unit first they'll click the action(button or hotkey) that allows a short move and place a dummy/ghost avatar of the unit where they want to move it and then click an enemy to attack with the action they've selected. That unit will then first move to the position selected and make the attack from that position. If they want to move after - they'll select the action(button/hotkey) click the enemy with the action they've selected and then place the dummy avatar and the unit will perform the attack animation and then move to the designated location. Placing the dummy avatar in the same location makes you not move (I think).
Hopefully that sounds intuitive and simple to perform but obviously there will need to be some designation somewhere in the UI itself - most likely in a hover tooltip - as to which actions include a short move, and also somewhere that explains how they work.
so how did this end up working in practice?Sounds great. I am confused about the 'time-based resolution' bit though. What does that mean?
Sounds to me like it's either:
1) Some sort of high granularity turn-based system where actions can take more than one turn (so like, while you're preparing your plasma rifle to fire, the enemy can get off two shots with his laser pistol)
2) Not actually turn-based but something like Frozen Synapse.
There's quite a few JRPGs and blobbers with this sort of combat system but it's much easier to implement when you're using more of a theater of the mind style combat rather than tactical grid.Sounds a lot like Final Fantasy VI "Active Time Battle" system.
Unless I'm not remembering correctly, Wasteland 2 actions aren't asynchronous.Also sounds like any TB game where turns are queued based on unit speed, not just "you go then I go". Wasteland 2 comes to mind.
His action is he fires the bullet(this does not happen immediately), time then begins ticking, the gun fires, the bullet begins traveling, and then the game pauses for his turn again while the bullet is mid-flight.
Yes.By 'asynchronous', you mean that actions aren't resolved instantly (i.e. grenades hang around for a sec, bullets take time to travel etc.)?
There are some like Frozen Synapse. Not aware of any RPGs, which is why I was interested.I don't think any turn-based game does that;
Cool. FYI, I believe the term 'asynchronous games' generally refers to multiplayer games where turns are submitted when the other players are not necessarily present, instead of all players having to be online at once (hence 'asynchronous' as gameplay does not have to occur at the same (synchronized) time for everyone). A simple example is postal chess. So I got confused when you used that term in a different context.Yes.By 'asynchronous', you mean that actions aren't resolved instantly (i.e. grenades hang around for a sec, bullets take time to travel etc.)?
Another terminology lesson - I believe the correct term for FS is "phase-based", where all unit moves are planned at once, and then all executed simultaneously. This is distinct from "turn-based" where units take, well, turns; which occur separately and are resolved in order.There are some like Frozen Synapse. Not aware of any RPGs, which is why I was interested.I don't think any turn-based game does that;
I don't think there's any good terminology to refer to this type of game(as was originally envisioned) because there's no good examples of it.Cool. FYI, I believe the term 'asynchronous games' generally refers to multiplayer games where turns are submitted at different times, instead of all players having to be online at once (hence 'asynchronous' as gameplay does not have to occur at the same (synchronized) time for everyone). So I got confused. A simple example is postal chess.Yes.By 'asynchronous', you mean that actions aren't resolved instantly (i.e. grenades hang around for a sec, bullets take time to travel etc.)?
Another terminology lesson - I believe the correct term for FS is "phase-based", where all unit moves are planned at once, and then all executed simultaneously. This is distinct from "turn-based" where units take, well, turns; which occur separately and are resolved in order.There are some like Frozen Synapse. Not aware of any RPGs, which is why I was interested.I don't think any turn-based game does that;
Better be backer and have hope than sitting on your ass complain all day and not get anything done. Not much money was lost at least we tried to encourage... something.yeah but I get to make fun of people who backed itDon't. Just read what Dhaze wrote.sigh, guess I'll have to read all 158 pages...
It's like twisting the knife in this case. Like: Hey, remember when this looked like it was going to be good?You can tell when rusty is really bored because he starts digging through ancient pages of threads and quoting 5 year old posts.
My philosophy is that if you aren't willing to subsist off tumeric and ginger roots you aren't gonna make it.Better be backer and have hope than sitting on your ass complain all day and not get anything done. Not much money was lost at least we tried to encourage... something.yeah but I get to make fun of people who backed itDon't. Just read what Dhaze wrote.sigh, guess I'll have to read all 158 pages...
My philosophy is that if you aren't willing to subsist off tumeric and ginger roots you aren't gonna make it.Better be backer and have hope than sitting on your ass complain all day and not get anything done. Not much money was lost at least we tried to encourage... something.yeah but I get to make fun of people who backed itDon't. Just read what Dhaze wrote.sigh, guess I'll have to read all 158 pages...
Soundtrack is great tho.
did this get cut?
Having too low of Logic or being illiterate means all text in the game is garbled. We made all the text in the game dynamic so far as to make this full-stop:
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14 art style changes.
I'm not sure if I entirely understand the combat system they went with. It still has simultaneous execution I think? But actions are no longer linked to time and instead abstracted away? Hard to tell without playing.
Recently in another thread I gave an example of how the use of grenades will likely differ from straight turn-based (or phase-based). In turn-based games usually you select a grenade, click where you want to throw it and the animation plays and you deal some damage to targets in the area of effect. In Copper Dreams, grenades will take time to throw and time to explode, so if you just throw a grenade at some enemies, they might move out of the AoE explosion radius if their turn is coming up soon - so you will have to use strategy, tactics, movement and positioning to make your grenade throws count.
I dunno, to my knowledge, Pierre didn't sell his house to fund his game like these guys supposedly did.
Benefit of hindsight and all that, but they should've stuck to the original kickstarter vision. It was what their backers wanted.
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The issue seems to me that they designed not being able to read as a bane, instead of being able to read as a boon.That concept made it into the game. If you don't invest enough in your Learning attribute, various texts are indeed garbled to varying degrees. But during my playthrough this seemed true only for non-essential text, i.e. flavor text or road signs. Every bit of crucial text was clearly readable no matter what.
Unfortunately, I suspect the devs painted themselves into a corner, as it's a neat idea but one that requires a lot of thought and planning to be executed properly. For example there's a point where you need a key to enter the Temple Of The Faith, and if I remember correctly said key is being held by Sora, whose location—an unhackable code-locked appartment—you can only learn by reading a piece of paper. In the game as it is now, if your character couldn't read that information, you could not progress further unless you're willing to brute-force every code or puzzle in the game.
Oh, that's not too bad. The way they worded it, and coinciding with their own move back to seattle, made it sound like they sold the house they were living in.I dunno, to my knowledge, Pierre didn't sell his house to fund his game like these guys supposedly did.
Benefit of hindsight and all that, but they should've stuck to the original kickstarter vision. It was what their backers wanted.
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From memory they invested in buying a house (possibly using the KS money?), and 'flipped' it for a profit after a few years.
The issue seems to me that they designed not being able to read as a bane, instead of being able to read as a boon.
Contrast e.g., being able to speak Spanish in Fallout Sonora. Not required to complete the game, but there are NPCs who can only speak Spanish.
But it doesn't make sense for the player character who is an off worlder.The issue seems to me that they designed not being able to read as a bane, instead of being able to read as a boon.
Contrast e.g., being able to speak Spanish in Fallout Sonora. Not required to complete the game, but there are NPCs who can only speak Spanish.
That's a good point; I had not considered it.
Plus it would have made sense in the setting of Calitana, a city whose inhabitants are, more likely than not, uneducated.
Yeah I usually think for a brief moment and then proceed to bashing heads in.know field work doesn't necessarily mean bashing heads in without a thought