Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[Machocruz]

What exactly is the appeal of MGS at anything other than the gameplay? The story makes absolutely no sense and I find it impossible to suspend my disbelief for it. The dialogue is pretty horrid, and the characters certainly are all ridiculous. I'm looking forward to the Phantom Pain because Kojima and co have clearly sunk a lot of work into making the gameplay fun, but other than that I don't see the merits behind getting hyped for a story which is as sensible and coherent as a five year old's finger painting.

Metal Gear started off as Hollywood inspired military thrillers,with a dash of (old school, thus tolerable) anime magic realism, nothing more. Man-on-a-mission tales, akin to Escape From New York or Guns of the Navarone. They weren't philosophical or "deep." Don't confuse the obsessions of the latter day storyfags and weabs with reality. These are the same "I play games for story" types that have contributed to the ruin of nearly every genre and series. They're constant bloviating and circle jerking in forums has created a wall of noise that developers have mistaken as the desires of the majority. For the record, I think MGS1 held the best compromise between military thriller and trying to make points, all of which were tied to militarism anyway.

I think it's no coincidence that in MGSV, from what I've read, story chunks are spread further apart while the gameplay looks better than ever. Even though it takes place in deserts and mountains, I'm getting more of a EFNY vibe than any game in the series since MG2:SS. Isn't the appeal of this whole concept that you get to be a Snake Plissken type infiltrating and saving the fucking day with cool weapons and attitude? You get to be the mother fucker instead of watching him, yet in today's AAA CinemajestiScope games we spend as much time watching as playing it seems.

 

[Caim]

Yeah I can see the 1984 inspiration in the levitating, telekinetic kid; the fire throwing, levitating demon; the 15,000 explosions; big boss growing a demon horn out of his forehead; the other 15,000 explosions. Really thoughtful stuff.

Kojima confirmed for being on the Just Cause 3 development team?

 

[Adon]

It means Kojima is confirmed to direct the Drive sequel.

 

[Caim]

It means Kojima is confirmed to direct the Drive sequel.

That's fine too!

 

[CosmicCommander]

Metal Gear started off as Hollywood inspired military thrillers,with a dash of (old school, thus tolerable) anime magic realism, nothing more. Man-on-a-mission tales, akin to Escape From New York or Guns of the Navarone. They weren't philosophical or "deep." Don't confuse the obsessions of the latter day storyfags and weabs with reality. These are the same "I play games for story" types that have contributed to the ruin of nearly every genre and series. They're constant bloviating and circle jerking in forums has created a wall of noise that developers have mistaken as the desires of the majority. For the record, I think MGS1 held the best compromise between military thriller and trying to make points, all of which were tied to militarism anyway.

I played MGS1 and found it a fun game, and I was just eager to skip through the filler that was the story. I saw it as basically a B-movie plot to push along some setpieces and justify the existence of the boss fights, and I never knew how anyone could take it more seriously than that.

I just don't see how fanboys or the obsessives see more than there is in there; how they obsess over the story and continuity of the franchise is just baffling, considering how shitty it is. Regardless of how big a weeb or an autist they are, it's just baffling how they can get that into the story of the franchise. I'm a storyfag myself, but I don't get why you'd play this franchise just for the story.

 

[The Bootymancer]

With the power of both videos and games at his disposal, Hideo Kojima lets us watch fine-ass movies while also playing fine-ass games, and that's... pretty good.

1 and 3, anyway. MGS4 did suck. Some really cool elements in the first couple of Acts that never got their chance to shine at all. 2 was interesting as hell and had some great mindfucking elements, I played it in one sitting one dark unemployed day with the help of recreational drugs and it was one of the most memorable experiences of my illustrious gaming career, but wasn't actually fun to play for 90% of the game. The Tanker was great, though.

 

[The Bootymancer]

why are half of my posts on this RPG forum about Metal Gear Solid. Why can't I contain my excitement, like an adult?

 

[The Bootymancer]

 

[Machocruz]

3 was also pretty straight laced military espionage story, moreso than 1 even, and no coincidence it's probably the best of the Solid games. Boss did some philosophizing, but it was tied to militaristic themes from what I remember. 4 is a fucking mess, emulating some of the worst aspects of Hollywood scripting. Reminded me of Independence Day and the trend where blockbusters had all these side character stories because they thought that added more substance to the typical summer movie formula. Meryl getting married? wtf.

 

[Adon]

Getting married to the guy who has been shitting his pants since MGS1 no less.

 

[Phage]

why are half of my posts on this RPG forum about Metal Gear Solid. Why can't I contain my excitement, like an adult?

Probably because MGS is the greatest RPG series of all time.

3 was also pretty straight laced military espionage story, moreso than 1 even, and no coincidence it's probably the best of the Solid games. Boss did some philosophizing, but it was tied to militaristic themes from what I remember. 4 is a fucking mess, emulating some of the worst aspects of Hollywood scripting. Reminded me of Independence Day and the trend where blockbusters had all these side character stories because they thought that added more substance to the typical summer movie formula. Meryl getting married? wtf.

I still think Solid 2 is somehow criminally underrated. The actual game itself is far, far funner than plebs give it credit for. Especially if you play on hard/extreme and don't use the tranq gun. Plus the VR missions and all that are great. If you don't like the story, it's all easily skippable anyways.

 

[Phage]

Getting married to the guy who has been shitting his pants since MGS1 no less.

It's worth pointing out that there are a lot of cues indicating that Kojima intentionally made MGS4 the actual end of Solid Snake's story and added stuff like Meryl marrying Liquid Shit just to spite his fans.

 

[Adon]

I still think Solid 2 is somehow criminally underrated. The actual game itself is far, far funner than plebs give it credit for. Especially if you play on hard/extreme and don't use the tranq gun. Plus the VR missions and all that are great. If you don't like the story, it's all easily skippable anyways.

I remember reading some posts in an old MGS forum that Substance was a subtle jab to fans from Kojima. Claiming that all the added gameplay was superficial, and not real substance like the game's story that went over a lot of people's head. True or not, didn't matter, those VR missions are great. Skateboarding was just a silly gimmick. That said, I absolutely hated that the Substance version would give you those sunglasses after beating it a few times. Don't remember if you could ever take them off.

 

[Phage]

I remember reading some posts in an old MGS forum that Substance was a subtle jab to fans from Kojima. Claiming that all the added gameplay was superficial, and not real substance like the game's story that went over a lot of people's head. True or not, didn't matter, those VR missions are great. Skateboarding was just a silly gimmick. That said, I absolutely hated that the Substance version would give you those sunglasses after beating it a few times. Don't remember if you could ever take them off.

I think everything post MGS1 is a jab of varying subtleties to Kojima's fans. (For instance, it's no secret that Raiden represents the player, which is why he's made out to be such a fag for the first 4/5ths of the game. Also arguable that Raiden's transformation in MGS4 is analogous to changing player tastes) That's what's great about Kojima. He also takes the piss out of himself frequently as well, though the anti-kojima infants overlook that.

 

[agentorange]

"u cant criticize me cuz i wasnt being serious to begin with! i win!"

 

[34scell]

3 was also pretty straight laced military espionage story, moreso than 1 even, and no coincidence it's probably the best of the Solid games. Boss did some philosophizing, but it was tied to militaristic themes from what I remember. 4 is a fucking mess, emulating some of the worst aspects of Hollywood scripting. Reminded me of Independence Day and the trend where blockbusters had all these side character stories because they thought that added more substance to the typical summer movie formula. Meryl getting married? wtf.

Now come on, in MGS3 nearly every boss has some unambiguously magical power and the Cobra Unit are monster of the week territory with very little connection to the story (like in MGS4). The best part about the story in MGS3 was that it leaves you alone for most of the middle part of the game.

 

[Machocruz]

I still think Solid 2 is somehow criminally underrated. The actual game itself is far, far funner than plebs give it credit for. Especially if you play on hard/extreme and don't use the tranq gun. Plus the VR missions and all that are great. If you don't like the story, it's all easily skippable anyways.

Considering how small each area is, they had to nail the guard placements and routes else the whole thing would fall apart and you'd just have to shoot everyone from the doorway before proceeding, for lack of shadows to hide in and alternate paths.

Now come on, in MGS3 nearly every boss has some unambiguously magical power and the Cobra Unit are monster of the week territory with very little connection to the story (like in MGS4). The best part about the story in MGS3 was that it leaves you alone for most of the middle part of the game.

Those are the bosses, which have been steadily more nuts since the first Metal Gear . That's where the anime magic realism I mentioned comes in, done for the sake of providing different play scenarios I assume. That they have little connection to the story is the point. The wackiness of a guy controlling bees is contained to play interaction with that guy, and so on for each boss. He could have just been a guy with a dart gun and it would make no difference to the overall narrative, which is a rather simple man on a mission thing. It's not Ghostbusters where the whole plot couldn't exist without the fantasy.

 

[Phage]

"u cant criticize me cuz i wasnt being serious to begin with! i win!"

Nice strawman. Almost as contrived as the ones I come up. You're learning!

Considering how small each area is, they had to nail the guard placements and routes else the whole thing would fall apart and you'd just have to shoot everyone from the doorway before proceeding, for lack of shadows to hide in and alternate paths.

Sure, but the fact that they did nail the guard placements/routes so well is a testament to how well designed the game itself is. I think people forget the game is from 2001, it's a staggeringly impressive accomplishment all things considered.

 

[agentorange]

"it's not poor writing it's just making fun of poor writing, b-b-because he's making fun of the f-f-fans...see..."

 

[Machocruz]

Sure, but the fact that they did nail the guard placements/routes so well is a testament to how well designed the game itself is. I think people forget the game is from 2001, it's a staggeringly impressive accomplishment all things considered.

That's what I meant, they did nail it. Because I remember molesting playing around with the guards in those little rooms and struts, fucking with their AI, and just overall abusing the poor saps, something I wouldn't have been able to do if, for example, their buddies walked random paths/turned corners at random, had a realistic FoV, etc.

 

[Phage]

"it's not poor writing it's just making fun of poor writing, b-b-because he's making fun of the f-f-fans...see..."

sexbad? brofists this

 

[agentorange]

"hehehe...by speculating on who will brofist a post it's like i'm totally discrediting and invalidating that post...b-b-because it's like i've got everyone figured out...see...hehe...now back to defending MGS2 by saying the only reason people don't like it is because they can't understand it."

 

[Phage]

That's what I meant, they did nail it. Because I remember molesting playing around with the guards in those little rooms and struts, fucking with their AI, and just overall abusing the poor saps, something I wouldn't have been able to do if, for example, their buddies walked random paths/turned corners at random, had a realistic FoV, etc.

Yeah, these scenarios are why I actually find 2 to generally be funner than 3 overall. There's a lot of crazy shit you can do in 3, but a lot of the systems in it, like the menu micromanagement, work against congruent gameplay.

 

[The Bootymancer]

agentorange sounds like a Neutral.

 

[The Bootymancer]

Now come on, in MGS3 nearly every boss has some unambiguously magical power and the Cobra Unit are monster of the week territory with very little connection to the story (like in MGS4). The best part about the story in MGS3 was that it leaves you alone for most of the middle part of the game.

There's a pretty clear progress from the earliest game (MGS3) to the last game (MGS4) in that "magical" powers are slowly and steadily usurped by technology, all mystery is being stamped out by "progress", and it pretty obviously mirrors Kojima's own relationship with the series. In 3, the bosses are unambiguously magic, both because it's the first game chronologically and because he was genuinely excited to make it. In 1, there's a definite supernatural thing going on, but they're still organised, categorised - there's no feeling of it being raw, uncharted territory, it lands squarely in the middle of the modern-day military-fantasy thing. This is taken to its extreme with the shitty boss characters in 4 which are literally just rubbish versions of the bosses in 1. They're all mechanical, all robotic, no mystery, nothing interesting. The product of mindless demands for more, better, cooler.

Now, this is obviously partially intentional and I like an auteur willing to spit in his audience's face as much as anyone, but it was definitely to 4's detriment. Kojima's contempt for his audience comes through well enough in 2; 4 is only of interest to those who came out of 2 with a Gray Fox-style "more... hurt me more" grin on their faces. Myself, I was just happy we got 3 instead.