Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Excidium]

I stopped around the start of act 3, I'll play again when they optmize it or I get a new computer, whatever comes first.

 

[Zeriel]

I legit still don't understand the arguments why MMXL is unfun but Xeen or Mandate is, aside from railroading (which I agree with immensely). You should be able to go to any major town from the moment the game starts, without fiddling around with quests. That said...

Oh god, backtracking is so tedious and dumb! None of that in Xeen. Or 6. Or 7. Or...

Boy, classes are so imbalanced. It's sure good that Mandate of Heaven had far superior class balance where people either encouraged you to run all spellcasters/ranged for an easy time, or all melee for an enforced hard-mode.

Game would be much improved by a front-line and back-line positioning system! Just like... uh, we have to go back to before 1990 to find this in M&M.

Semantics aside...

Actually, the only reason I haven't ragequit the game at this point is because this IS a free review copy I'm playing, with the responsibility to deliver that this entails. I keep thinking I should just ditch my current party and start with a better optimized one, but then that won't help with the interminable loads.

Sounds like shit. I'd uninstall if I didn't enjoy the game. My condolences--seriously. I'm sad people who liked Xeen can't enjoy this game for what it is... even if I can't really figure out why.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh noes, a brigand boss monster!

heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion

Congratulations!!! You have succeeded in the dealings of the tacticool!

 

[Zeriel]

Oh noes, a brigand boss monster!

heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion
heal whack fire ball ice bolt mana potion

Congratulations!!! You have succeeded in the dealings of the tacticool!

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh god, backtracking is so tedious and dumb! None of that in Xeen. Or 6. Or 7. Or...

You seriously need to play Xeen again if you come up with this. Getting from one end of the map to the other took about 10 seconds of holding down an arrow key.

Boy, classes are so imbalanced. It's sure good that Mandate of Heaven had far superior class balance where people either encouraged you to run all spellcasters/ranged for an easy time, or all melee for an enforced hard-mode.

Wat. Very much all "normal" class mixes worked in MM6. "Full spellcaster" and "full melee" parties are cheese picks made for metagaming, how the hell are those even relevant.

Game would be much improved by a front-line and back-line positioning system! Just like... uh

That was a brainfart on my part, I confess, but I was sure MM 3-5 made a distinction of how your dudes were aligned from left to right when it came to the odds of being targeted.

I'm sad people who liked Xeen can't enjoy this game for what it is... even if I can't really figure out why.

Xeen had shit combat and good-to-great everything else. Plus, it was very much devoid of any "annoying" elements, which made the whole game a pleasant rollercoaster ride through and through.

Meanwhile, everything in this game has been boring as shit so far, and not only that, it also happens to marry the boring with the annoying at times.

It's like this game is trying to strike some sort of a balance halfway between Wizardry and Might and Magic, but not really managing to achieve either + removing all the lovable derpy fluff from both.

 

[Excidium]

but I was sure MM 3-5 made a distinction of how your dudes were aligned from left to right when it came to the odds of being targeted.

Yeah it works like that in 3-5.

 

[Zeriel]

7 also had racial/class targeting. (Undead always raped clerics first, goblins always went for dwarves, et cetera.) Not that this was a great idea.

 

[Grunker]

One thing about this game that really needs to fuck right the fuck back to where it came from: decorative doors

 

[Excidium]

It also loves knee-high barriers.

 

[Darth Roxor]

And corridor forests.

 

[cvv]

What else?
No customized haircuts? No vanity pets?

 

[Zed]

One thing about this game that really needs to fuck right the fuck back to where it came from: decorative doors

you mean those doors in town that looks like you can enter them but you can't?

because of them I pretty much play "town time" entirely through the minimap.

 

[Infinitron]

It's like this game is trying to strike some sort of a balance halfway between Wizardry and Might and Magic, but not really managing to achieve either

I'd say this is where your difference with Broseph and Zeriel lies. For them, it seems to be managing that quite fine, to the point where Broseph even considered that it might be the best Might & Magic game due to its synthesis of harder-core Wizardry-like elements.

 

[CSM]

I don't think




share many similarities at all; they certainly can't be boiled down to "low-res WoW" vs. "high-res WoW"

What. The . Fuck.

Last time I played a Heroes game, towns looked like this:



And I thought that was already a decline over:

 

[Sceptic]

Game would be much improved by a front-line and back-line positioning system! Just like... uh, we have to go back to before 1990 to find this in M&M.

Look, it's really not that hard:
- MM1-2: tactical combat, therefore positioning system is needed and enhances combat, therefore positioning system is in
- MM3-5: less tactical, positioning system not so relevant but would still be nice to have, so it's there but not as well developed
- MM6-8: even less tactical, positioning system not needed, positioning system even less developed.
- MM10: much more tactical, positioning system essential to support the tactics, positioning system completely gone.
There are two completely separate issues that you're conflating to make a stawman. One issue is that MM10 doesn't have a positioning system while MM1-2 had, which is a nonissue because MM3-8 didn't have one had a very basic one. The other issue is that MM3-8 combat didn't NEED such a system because the entire combat system was simpler and less tactical, while the MM10 one absolutely requires it to prevent it from devolving into a clusterfuck where your squishies get hit and you have no way of preventing it. This gets bandaged with the taunts, except that would make the game too easy, so the bandage itself gets bandaged by making most bosses and a large number of boss-like enemies immune to taunts. Which of course takes us back to square one.

Now if you think the above is good design that needs defending then we have nothing left to discuss.

I'm sad people who liked Xeen can't enjoy this game for what it is... even if I can't really figure out why.

Because, aside form the Might and Magic name and the classification as a turn-based blobber, this game has nothing to do with Xeen. Some of it is for the better, the rest of it not so much.

"Full spellcaster" and "full melee" parties are cheese picks made for metagaming, how the hell are those even relevant.

I've always said that one of the greatest strengths of the series is that such parties COULD be made to work because, despite the simplicity of the combat systems, you could take advantage of the design of the world and of the encounters to make them work. MMX's combat, the overreliance on ambushes, the complete uselessness of some skills and classes, the absolute and uncircumventable necessity of some spells and abilities, all of it makes the combat more challenging but also makes the "just make a party and see how it goes" charm of MM3-8 completely go away. It's a shame too because I thought the random party generator was a brilliant addition and something that every previous M&M should've had, but unfortunately it got introduced in the one and only M&M that doesn't allow fucking up your party composition.

What else?
No customized haircuts? No vanity pets?

Seriously? fuck off.

to the point where Broseph even considered that it might be the best Might & Magic game due to its synthesis of harder-core Wizardry-like elements.

And I might've agreed with him too if that synthesis didn't end up throwing out the three major things that made M&M what it is.

 

[Infinitron]

By the way, the introduction of Wizardry-like elements is probably intentional. Julien Pirou is a huge fan of Wizardry 8, and he's said that any future free-roaming/non-grid-based Might & Magic sequel is likely to be similar to that game.

 

[Zeriel]

Sceptic

I think people are just going to have to disagree on this one. You think it's fundamentally broken. I think it has some minor flaws (mostly to do with encounter design, rather than mechanics, and a small world). You think it's literally impossible to succeed with inoptimal parties. I know for a fact you can take any shitty old party and go through the game on Warrior difficulty. I can already anticipate the counter-argument (you shouldn't have to do that, great players can defeat any challenge!), but it's no different from the thing you think great in earlier titles (playing MM6 with a bad party is the exact same thing, player triumphing over bad balance).

ETA: He mentioned the party mechanics (direct taunts, melee spells, both of which I consider great additions) were taken from Wizardry. Wizardry: Forsaken Land (PS2) to be specific, if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Zeriel]

Here's a question: if I go and beat the game on Warrior difficulty with a bunch of rangers/scouts and no use of celestial armor, is the game fine? I anticipate the answer is "no".

 

[Excidium]

And corridor forests.

This is something that I find really retarded. They should have done something more intelligent with those dragon blessings. For example, those forest paths should be always open, but with the earth dragon whatshername blessing you can walk through the dense wood tiles instead of zigzagging like a retard with the game dropping to 5 FPS everytime you turn the screen.

 

[Infinitron]

And corridor forests.

This is something that I find really retarded. They should have done something more intelligent with those dragon blessings. For example, those forest paths should be always open, but with the earth dragon whatshername blessing you can walk through the dense wood tiles instead of zigzagging like a retard with the game dropping to 5 FPS everytime you turn the screen.

They explained (briefly) why they couldn't do that: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...pdate-the-rune-priest-dragon-blessings.89145/

 

[DataPack]

I don't think




share many similarities at all; they certainly can't be boiled down to "low-res WoW" vs. "high-res WoW"

What. The . Fuck.

Last time I played a Heroes game, towns looked like this:



And I thought that was already a decline over:

You've missed Heroes 4, would you like me to gift it to you on GoG?

 

[Butcer]

this game is so far awesome

 

[sser]

I'm playing the game right now with three of the supposed worst characters available and the game isn't impossible. I'm pretty sure you could take just about any party into the game and make it work. A positioning system would actually make the game harder in my opinion because there are so many ambushes and fights where you're completely surrounded. If your back members were always getting hit because enemies showed up there, and showed up at the sides, you'd end up mixing up your heavies and lightweights anyway. Instead, the game deploys a positioning system via enemy management instead which is totally just as viable a game mechanic. You are free to turn around and blast an enemy back off you if things are too tight, or debuff them, or buff yourself, etc. Because my current party has only one form of healing - a very basic party regen via Ranger - I'm having to depend more on turning around and 'taunting' enemies off the back line or blowing them away with wind gusts before I turn back around and deal with the problems up front.

What this also means is how you manage enemies is totally dependent on your party makeup. My first party just sat there with Celestial armor and big heals and tanked its way through stuff. My current party has an archer, a pathetic heal, and a handful of utility spells - it's a totally different game, but there's nothing impossible about it. It's just different.

 

[LivingOne]

I'm enjoying the game but the thing keeps crashing.Any news of a patch?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I have played Etrian Odyssey IV (another Wizardry-lite basically) a few months ago and that had a similar enemy "aggro once you get close" mechanic, but there you could sneak past, or flee, it even did some puzzle stuff with it. It's everything from underpowered ranged combat, tunnel map design, potion spam or imbalanced spells and so on. Combat overall is really awkward in this game, doesn't seem like they had a clear, coherent vision for it.

There's still stuff for me to like about M&MX, it gets bonus points for daring to present good old riddles in a modern game, character development and loot hunting/choices is pretty fun... on the other hand the generic fantasy blabla story and garbage artwork/design and music and performance is not.