Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Excidium]

His promotion ability is still worthless no matter how you build him, though.

Wut? Why? Isn't his ability that he only loses block attempts if the hit is actually blocked?

Exactly if you build the defender like a tank, wich i assumed was the thing to do , its shit.

"Full tank". It doesn't really matter having a lot of defense if you have no offense, a taunt gets blocked and then you are useless. Heavy Armor and Shield already make you tanky enough.

Barbarian is a beast but not compare to a dual wielding bladedancer, so its subpar in my opinion.

Everything is shit compared to a minmaxed bladedancer in terms of doing what the class is supposed to do so I don't really understand.

 

[DefJam101]

I've been playing on Warrior spoiler-free and I think I've wiped twice with careful play. It's a perfectly fine difficulty level and it's not tedious at all.

So far MMX is one of the few CRPGs I've ever played where gold is still meaningfully valuable halfway through the game.

edit: in the interest of full disclosure I should note I played early access for a couple of hours and realized that ranged characters were trash. but that's it.

 

[Great Deceiver]

His promotion ability is still worthless no matter how you build him, though.

Wut? Why? Isn't his ability that he only loses block attempts if the hit is actually blocked?

Oh, my bad, I confused Shield Wall with the GM shield ability, which is total shit.

 

[Mortmal]

His promotion ability is still worthless no matter how you build him, though.

Wut? Why? Isn't his ability that he only loses block attempts if the hit is actually blocked?

Exactly if you build the defender like a tank, wich i assumed was the thing to do , its shit.

"Full tank". It doesn't really matter having a lot of defense if you have no offense, a taunt gets blocked and then you are useless. Heavy Armor and Shield already make you tanky enough.

Barbarian is a beast but not compare to a dual wielding bladedancer, so its subpar in my opinion.

Everything is shit compared to a minmaxed bladedancer in terms of doing what the class is supposed to do so I don't really understand.

Yes but when you are starting the game anew , withouh reading guides to get the fresh experience , you expect ta tank to taunt and block doing minimal amount of damage, this does not work in MMX at all. Even with two melee taunting, the druid get sometimes one shotted, no battle row is hurting a lot in this game .

 

[Excidium]

I agree that not having battle rows hurt the game, I would prefer if it existed and the combat was designed around that, with reach weapons, flying enemies all that jazz. But it's not, so you can't play like you would if it was.

 

[Arkeus]

Yes but when you are starting the game anew , withouh reading guides to get the fresh experience , you expect ta tank to taunt and block doing minimal amount of damage, this does not work in MMX at all. Even with two melee taunting, the druid get sometimes one shotted, no battle row is hurting a lot in this game .

This is why you stack defenses. It shouldn't be 'even with two melee taunting', it should be 'i have two different characters that can heal (light/earth are two different schools, so that's cool) so that i can heal the healer if all go badly' AND 'i have damage mitigation from Light/Water/Air/etc' AND 'I have a Melee specced to taunting' AND 'I have Tsunami scrolls if worse come to worse and i need to run', etc etc.

Having taunter shouldn't be 'enough' to unsquish a squishy character.

 

[cvv]

Bullshit. Barbarians are fucking monsters, either two-handed or dual wielding. Not as powerful as blade dancers but blade dancers are p. much the cheese class.

I still think the Defender is shit, but I also made the mistake of building defensively (too many points in vit, got GM shield, taunts suck) and not going for GM Axe right away. His promotion ability is still worthless no matter how you build him, though.

Defender can be useful only if you go for GM Warfare asap. The Challenge, Shatter, Skullcrack, Intercept and especially Flawless Assault are priceless in later game.

And yeah, his promotion is not bad but not stellar either. But that goes for most chars in this game, the high level spells and abilities are quite underwhelming.

 

[Average Manatee]

Well, to his defense. He didn't choose light or nature magic for his Runepriest. So he only has 2 healers.

Well by now I hope it's clear how much DPS-focused casters suck early on.

What? I'd say it's the other way around. A fully-rested mage can demolish most things just based off their low levels spells + good stats. Melee need to find a good weapon which can take some time, and even then BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK. A fully-rested mage can demolish most encounters, the only difficulty is your rations which may need to be replenished.

Exactly if you build the defender like a tank, wich i assumed was the thing to do , its shit. Barbarian is a beast but not compare to a dual wielding bladedancer, so its subpar in my opinion.

Basically the power of each class revolves around not how well they can do the task they are supposed to do, but how well they can be a melee DPS or a GM caster. Everything else is beating around the bush and/or useless. It's kind of silly but you should figure that out in the first act.

Yes but when you are starting the game anew , withouh reading guides to get the fresh experience , you expect ta tank to taunt and block doing minimal amount of damage, this does not work in MMX at all. Even with two melee taunting, the druid get sometimes one shotted, no battle row is hurting a lot in this game.

You need to get out of playing degenerate MMOs. Tanks are mechanized vehicles of death that blow shit up. Warriors are the same. All-defensive "tanks" that do jack shit other than abuse retarded aggro mechanics need to die.

 

[Lhynn]

If the game had battle rows a lot of you faggots would have ragequitted with the incredible number of lame ass ambushes and pincer attacks the game throws at you.

 

[Excidium]

I don't think the defender promotion ability is bad, at least it's on all the time and maximizes something he excels at, I like it more than promotion abilities that give extra active abilities, like you need more.

Well, to his defense. He didn't choose light or nature magic for his Runepriest. So he only has 2 healers.

Well by now I hope it's clear how much DPS-focused casters suck early on.

What? I'd say it's the other way around. A fully-rested mage can demolish most things just based off their low levels spells + good stats. Melee need to find a good weapon which can take some time, and even then BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK. A fully-rested mage can demolish most encounters, the only difficulty is your rations which may need to be replenished.

In my experience they are better off using support abilities than fireball fireball fireball mana pot.

 

[cvv]

If the game had battle rows a lot of you faggots would have ragequitted with the incredible number of lame ass ambushes and pincer attacks the game throws at you.

As opposed to what?

 

[Lhynn]

If the game had battle rows a lot of you faggots would have ragequitted with the incredible number of lame ass ambushes and pincer attacks the game throws at you.

As opposed to what?

just complaining that its lame that it throws them at you but it dont make much of a difference, just facing more enemies at once. unless they get some bonus from flanking, which still doesnt make much of a difference as everyone can still be hit just as well.
Also, it makes the spark spell really shine

Spoiler

 

[Average Manatee]

In my experience they are better off using support abilities than fireball fireball fireball mana pot.

I agree for the normal encounters, but mostly for reasons of mana/ration efficiency. For the bosses with heightened block and armor and counterattacks they can absolutely melt face far faster than melee. My first time through I was pumping pure support on my mages and yet the boss of both the lighthouse and the bandits ended up being incinerated by level 1 fireballs. Melee comes into its own when better weapons start being found and ways to bypass the aforementioned melee mitigators become available.

 

[Darth Roxor]

guises, something here doesn't quite make sense

WHAT DO YOU MEAN DOESN'T MAKE SENSE WHO CARES IT MAKES NO SENSE LOLOLOLOLOLO L2P

It's getting awfully bethforum around here.

 

[Sceptic]

Funny thing is, MM1-5 may have had terrible load times when they were new too. But today, nobody remembers. Technology marches on...

MM3's loading times were notorious when the game came out. You had to wait up to ten seconds for something to load. TEN SECONDS! THE HUMANITY! .... or so we thought. I kinda look back and wish I could get my ten second loads back.

I really liked some of the smaller design decisions of the older games, like how the temples were almost always directly opposite the entrance to towns (in MM3+, anyways). MMX's towns feel like they've been designed in spite of the gameplay rather than to support it.

It's the little things sometimes. Everything in MM3-5 was laid out to make you waste less time. Just look at the path entrance to Sorpigal in MMX to see the new philosophy: twisty passages that make you waste as much time as possible for no reason whatsoever. All it does is artifically extend play time. The entire outdoors are designed like this.

He's also the only notable people who did not met the developpers nor got a vip copy for free , wich makes his review unbiased.

Actually, the only reason I haven't ragequit the game at this point is because this IS a free review copy I'm playing, with the responsibility to deliver that this entails. I keep thinking I should just ditch my current party and start with a better optimized one, but then that won't help with the interminable loads.

It's rather telling to me that the majority of complaints leveled at MMXL can be leveled at the previous titles, or are even worse in the previous titles.

No. I'm going to save the long and detailed list of why, since I'll have to write it anyway once I finished the goddamn game, but for now I'll just say: no.

For what it's worth, I consider "the game is complicated and unbalanced" to be a compliment

It's really not that complicated, in fact the game's complexity is one of the good things about it and one of its biggest problems is that the actual system and design don't support the complexity that they've tried to build into it. As for "unabalnced", this is an accusaton I threw at MM1 27 years ago, and I didn't mean it as a good thing back then either.

Fights are really strategic but aren't better than Grimcock's derpstepping? Are you reading your own words?

Read again, he said fights are rarely strategic.

The game is not forgiving if you don't fucking plan your party composition, yes. And that's a huge motherfucking plus.

If you like Wizardry, sure. If you like Might and Magic, welcome to the ONLY MIGHT AND MAGIC GAME where making a small mistake in party composition means it's time to reroll 20h later.

I think the most amusing thing in watching those of you rabidly defending the difficulty is remembering that, at some point in time long long ago, putting in useless skills in a game was considered bad design. Now we have to praise it to high heavens because it increases difficulty.

Well, if i had to point one thing wrong with the game is celestial armor, feels like everything has been balanced around it.

And that's the problem. It's not that everything was balanced around it, it's just a symptom of the entire way the combat was designed: put in something, realize it could make the game too hard, put in a bandage, realize it makes the game too easy, paint it with coagulated blood to try and make the game harder again. The same happened with ranged combat and ambushes, with celestial armor and those enemies that can bypass it, with all the potion-chugging, and I suspect the placement of fucking EXPERT trainers behind MQ choke points may also have had something to do with it as well. All of it ends with a mess of bad designs entangled into each other.

And? Should i attempt to recreate my Jagged Alliance 2 setup?

Uh hello? Did you look at the FUCKING NAME OF THIS FUCKING GAME?

No really, these kinds of lines are pretty telling.

Well i'm doing fine with my first and only party - Barbarian/Blademaster/Crusader/Runepriest.

Oh hey look, "I picked the cheese classes in my first party and I'm having such an easy time", quelle surprise.

So, they don't classify as random or as encounters to you?

Scripted, fixed ambush encounters are now random encounters? Wow, the length you go to sometimes.

 

[Infinitron]

Now, now, Sceptic, are we gonna have to pull a Jeff Gerstmann on you?

 

[Lhynn]

The game is not perfect, the load times are unforgivable long, ambushes feel so fucking forced and shitty you want to punch the dude that put them there.
But i can say without shame i had a fun time playing it, that i found it challenging and that it actually made me look into the mechanics and my party composition to survive, and thats a good thing.

 

[Decado]

I'm not reading all of these posts but I would also like to point out that tanking in this game is a kinda messed up. There are entirely too many enemies who can avoid the "Taunt" down the Warfare tree, to include all undead, elementals, and a bunch of other enemies. This makes fights severely lopsided. What do I mean?

My party is Crusader/Ranger/Defender/Freemage. The Crusader and the Dorf can both taunt and have pretty high block abilities and a shitload of health, so fights against humans are pure face-rolling cheese. But if you put them up against some undead, all the taunt mechanics are worthless and now my mage/ranger are taking a fucking beating they cannot handle.

This goes back to the issue of party setup. Limbic could have done away with the WoW style aggro management part of tanking entirely if they let you use ranks (fighters up front, etc). Because the way I see it, there are only two ways to control the battlefield in a game like this: positioning, or aggro managment. The problem is, if you are going to go the aggro management way, you have to provide an avenue that lets you actually manage aggro on a consistent basis.

My preference would have been to ditch the aggro management mechanic all together, and allowed for front and back ranks. This wouldn't make much of a difference in those cheese fights where dudes just spawn behind you for no goddamn reason, but the alternative is this half-assed aggro management that heavily favors some encounters over others.

 

[cvv]

What in the name of fuck is wrong with enemies popping up? I really, seriously don't get why everyone is so whiny about them.

And yeah, they're scripted, so what? So people would be fine with them all of a sudden if mobs would pop up randomly instead? Please...

As for party composition, c'mon - it's not like the game has only two kinds of classes, the cheese and the useless ones. Even if you make a party of solely the ranged classes from all four races, it would be a pretty great party. You could spec the Ranger into dual-wield GM daggers, the hunter into GM Spear and some air magic, the Scout a dual-wielding axe murderer with fire magic and the Crusader would do his thing. On top of that all of them would have GM'd the defensive skills like Dodge, Endurance or both Armors so there wouldn't be any weak link squishy member you'd have to pamper constantly.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I agree. There are too many flimsy skills in the game. Like I've complained already about Mana Surge. The monsters it would be most useful against are immune to it; enemies who you can use it against tend to resist it quite often and even then there are most likely a ton of other better spells to cast in its stead.

 

[Decado]

I have no problem with the occasional ambush. But as you progress through the game they are fucking constant. It is kind of lazy.

 

[Branm]

Ubisoft defines good sales of this game as "several hundred thousand". The game was viable only due to its heavy asset reuse, and future sequels (if we get any) are expected to continue doing that. Ubisoft are in fact putting together an "Ashan asset collection" that all M&M games will use.

If that's dollars it shouldn't be difficult to reach, but I assume its units which uhhh I dunno if it can happen with such a niece game.

 

[Infinitron]

Ubisoft defines good sales of this game as "several hundred thousand". The game was viable only due to its heavy asset reuse, and future sequels (if we get any) are expected to continue doing that. Ubisoft are in fact putting together an "Ashan asset collection" that all M&M games will use.

If that's dollars it shouldn't be difficult to reach, but I assume its units which uhhh I dunno if it can happen with such a niece game.

Units.

 

[cvv]

Ubisoft defines good sales of this game as "several hundred thousand". The game was viable only due to its heavy asset reuse, and future sequels (if we get any) are expected to continue doing that. Ubisoft are in fact putting together an "Ashan asset library" that all M&M games will use.

I'm completely fine with them reusing the assets tbh, provided they make at least some adjustments now and then. Black Hole did a great job on designing the monsters, items and portraits for HomamVI, they're great models and high quality beautiful paintings so why not. As long as the goodness keeps coming.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I actually don't mind reused assets. For one it will create a nice consistency between the games, something the previous games didn't really have. HoMM3 and MM7 came closest.