Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Zeriel]

If you want to enjoy them, you should play games first and then read the Codex, never the reverse.

 

[Great Deceiver]

but I was sure MM 3-5 made a distinction of how your dudes were aligned from left to right when it came to the odds of being targeted.

Yeah it works like that in 3-5.

As far as I remember, only in 1-2 did order matter because you couldn't use melee weapons from the later slots. In 3-5 you couldn't bash from the last 3 slots, but I'd hardly call that tactically relevant...

 

[Grunker]

Reading this thread makes me so conflicted about whether or not I should actually play this game any more in the hope that it will get better.

I think an underrated point on the Codex is that some people actually enjoy some games and other people do not, and this subjective diversity in enjoyment is not a valuable measure of quality. Otherwise game discussion would just be two people stalemating on the uninformed opinions of "I like X" versus "I do not."

I.e. if you dislike this game, that's cool bruv, just don't make the mistake of thinking that your dislike/my liking of the game is some kind of indication of the game's ultimate worth.

For my own part, I enjoy the game so far, but I'm not really ready to declare it a success or failure in comparison to the older games. I'm not far enough in yet.

 

[Sceptic]

Like I said, I personally think it's...ill-advised in this day and age to complain about anything that makes a game harder.

Give me any CRPG that you think is too easy, and I will make it "hard" and "challenging" by changing exactly two values.

Making hard games is much, much easier than you think. I don't want developers to make hard games just so we can tick off the checkbox and pat ourselves on the backs over how kewl and l33t and hardcore we are. I want good design where the challenge stems from the goodness of the design.

I feel like people are overstating the prevalence of taunt immunities. Most bosses in the game can be taunted, even though they say they are immune to "mind manipulation".

Oh they CAN be taunted... and then they focus-attack the person that was not the one taunting them. This is the irritating thing with the game's bullshit, it gets all these immunities to pass by quietly and silently, hoping that you won't notice. It does the same with the silences and with the attacks that bypass Celestial Armor.

Damn right seriously. Are ya'll for real here? Decorative doors? Low barriers? Corridor forrests? In a fucking retro blobber?

...... yes. Low barries and corridor outdoors. In Might and Magic. In the one series the DEFINED outdoors. In the one and only series that took corridor outdoors, chopped them to bits, and showed us what REAL outdoors are. And you support this unironically?

Congratulations on being the only person I've ever added to my ignore list.

Hey, dude, I have no isseus with any of that cosmetic shit. My issue is because decorative doors make me fiddle around with shit to figure out whether it is a real door or Graphics Asset B. The trouble is further augmented by some doors looking like decorative doors but then being important.

All real doors show up on a minimap as a house, a shop etc.

Is this also true in dungeons? If so, I'm a retard. So far, it seems like all doors, even decorative ones, show up with small white lines on the minimap.

You're not a retard, the game is wildly inconsistent. Some decorative doors show up with that white outline. Some doors that look decorative actually open up later even though they don't give you any indication they will when you click them. Some doors do give you an indication that they will open later. Relying on the minimap is not always a good idea because some of these said doors will in fact NOT show up on the minimap as that white line. It's not a big issue IMO, you get used pretty quickly to just clicking everything.

My party is far from optimized, and I'm doing quite alright.

You don't have the best party but yours is well optimized, much moreso than mine, and I've not really had much trouble other than a couple of places. I don't have to suck at the game or to get stuck on a fight to see that the flaws with the mechanics, though it seems like people like sser and cvv are unable to wrap their heads around this shocking concept.

I haven't even bought a single potion from a shop

I never bought a single potion, the drops are more than enough to go through the usual potion-guzzling in every fight.

It's kind of sad when you try to improve on a beloved formula and discover that many people never really loved the formula to begin with.

Actually the problem I had with AOD is exactly the same that I now have with MMX. Fallout's combat was not its strong suit, but it was alright because it didn't get in the way of the game's major strengths. Likewise, M&M's combat was never its strong suit, but it was alright because it didn't get in the way of the game's major strengths. AOD took Fallout's combat and tried to make it stand out by making it "harder" while ignoring that this kind of combat and challenge wouldn't work too well in a Fallout-like single-character scenario. Likewise MMX tries to make the typical M&M combat more tactical without giving it some of the necessary options to suppor these tactics, and by actively sabotaging most of the options it does give you. I can see how people who are after the "challenge" would enjoy it, except I didn't ask for this, I asked for more of M&M strengths, and this isn't what the game set out to deliver.

 

[cvv]

Damn right seriously. Are ya'll for real here? Decorative doors? Low barriers? Corridor forrests? In a fucking retro blobber?

...... yes. Low barries and corridor outdoors. In Might and Magic. In the one series the DEFINED outdoors. In the one and only series that took corridor outdoors, chopped them to bits, and showed us what REAL outdoors are. And you support this unironically?

Congratulations on being the only person I've ever added to my ignore list.

So first you remove me from your "brolist" because I said I didn't like Tree of Life and then you put me on ignore because I said I like MMX.

I think it's actually quite telling.

 

[DefJam101]

celestial armour + regeneration + potion spamming is the be all end all of supposedly tacticool combat

It's almost like you haven't played the game at all. Are you still in the thieves den or something?

 

[Infinitron]

I can see how people who are after the "challenge" would enjoy it, except I didn't ask for this, I asked for more of M&M strengths, and this isn't what the game set out to deliver.

That's not really your decision now is it?

Like I said, the introduction of these "alien", non-M&M elements was quite intentional. It's not like they tried to create something else but failed. Obviously Pirou has a different vision for M&M than you do, but then, you do have a bit of a purist streak, don't you? I remember our little discussion on the VGA version of King's Quest 2.

Oh well, can't please everybody, yadda yadda.

 

[Excidium]

"I like MMX despite numerous design flaws and will completely dismiss your criticism as opinion/L2P issues"

vs

"I hate MMX because of numerous design flaws and will make use of hyperbole and limited impressions to make them sound much worse than they really are"

How about both sides fuck off.

For my own part, I enjoy the game so far, but I'm not really ready to declare it a success or failure in comparison to the older games. I'm not far enough in yet.

Well I went far enough so I can say that apart from grid movement, it's nothing like 3-5, and those are the only might & magic titles I care about. Sure, setting tone and aesthetics were obviously fucked from the get go, but you never know about gameplay. Well if you wanna know, to begin with the game is very railroaded by the main quest to the point you can't even go somewhere else before you advance on it, because the world is gated and practically any dungeon bigger than one room is tied to the main quest. The outdoor zones feel labyrinthine and claustrophobic, you clear the entire area of monsters in 15 minutes the first time you visit and then spend the rest of the act wishing you could fight something interesting that isn't tied to the main quest somehow, and find loot that isn't garbage. Oh yeah, about loot...those relic "dungeons" are aggravating as fuck. One-room maps with a big monster/trial and error puzzle and a chest, I don't feel like I've even earned any of them. I see a doorway in the middle of nowhere and "oh another relic".

Systems design leave much to be desired too, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about that and the lack of documentation because it's not like the audience cares, average CRPG player doesn't like strong, thought-out systems or making informed choices.

Still It's not without merits, even though the character system is awful in some aspects, planning and developing your party is involving enough. Dare I say fun?

Anyway...I only stopped playing on act 3 because of technical problems, so I guess I found it enjoyable enough.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Can't seem to find any Water Expert spells in either Sorpigal or Seahaven. Is that corrent?

It's on Seahaven.

The Church library only has Novice Water spells, is there anywhere else i have overlooked?

 

[Excidium]

Oh fuck I'm stupid I thought you meant Expert trainer.

 

[Grunker]

"I like MMX despite numerous design flaws and will completely dismiss your criticism as opinion/L2P issues"

vs

"I hate MMX because of numerous design flaws and will make use of hyperbole and limited impressions to make them sound much worse than they really are"

I see what you're getting at, but I don't think that it's a correct representation. No one was arguing that the game was perfect. People were reacting on the notion that the game's flaws completely condemned it.

Meh... I'll rejoin when I'm done.

 

[cvv]

"I like MMX despite numerous design flaws and will completely dismiss your criticism as opinion/L2P issues"

I love the game despite its flaws but I don't dismiss all criticism, not even close. I absolutely agree that the lack of the position system is stupid, it renders the ranged classes completely useless and forces you to pump your casters full of hp and resists (both my casters finished with much more hp than my Defender and Blademaster btw). Also, I hated the trial-n-error puzzles and the badly thought out loot system too, no argument here.

But I haven't heard anything substantial from neither Roxor nor Sceptic, except vague statements like "I want good design where the challenge stems from the goodness of the design." Seems they simply don't like the game, they just don't, but can't put it in words with any sense or weight...yet.

Well if you wanna know, to begin with the game is very railroaded by the main quest to the point you can't even go somewhere else before you advance on it

That's just in the beginning, the majority of the world is closed off but I don't see it as a big deal, you wouldn't get far beyond the bridge by the castle anyway. But I grant you the mountains should open up sooner and not require you to get the air shard first, which is relatively high-level stuff.

 

[Sceptic]

Like I said, the introduction of these "alien", non-M&M elements was quite intentional. It's not like they tried to create something else but failed.

You're right, that last line of mine is not true. The flaws in the combat system are there regardless, but taken in a vacuum the game does achieve what it wants more or less well. I just wish that what it was achieveing was more M&M. That said I can distance myself enough from the "if only!" to see that I am enjoying some aspects of the game.

 

[Excidium]

That's just in the beginning, the majority of the world is closed off but I don't see it as a big deal, you wouldn't get far beyond the bridge by the castle anyway. But I grant you the mountains should open up sooner and not require you to get the air shard first, which is relatively high-level stuff.

Act 2 is hardly just the beginning. And the whole game should be open from the getgo, the main quest and blessings should involve rewards not be used as means to gate content and artificially restrict exploration.

Zeriel and (deleted user) Brofist this.

wut

 

[Abelian]

One thing about this game that really needs to fuck right the fuck back to where it came from: decorative doors

you mean those doors in town that looks like you can enter them but you can't?

because of them I pretty much play "town time" entirely through the minimap.

Me too, once I've explored the town the first time around. All the actual doors have a white marker on the map.
Initially, Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters. Fans complained, so they decided to build actual towns. If only the relevant merchant buildings were kept, the town would feel ridiculously small.

;tldr fake doors are for imershun

 

[Excidium]

Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters. Fans complained, so they decided to build actual towns.n

Why am I not surprised. Thank you MMX fans, for making everyone waste time for no benefit whatsoever. Nothing remotely interesting ever happens from exploring towns, at best you find a fucking magic resistance barrel or a chest that gives vendor trash.

 

[cvv]

That's just in the beginning, the majority of the world is closed off but I don't see it as a big deal, you wouldn't get far beyond the bridge by the castle anyway. But I grant you the mountains should open up sooner and not require you to get the air shard first, which is relatively high-level stuff.

Act 2 is hardly just the beginning. And the whole game should be open from the getgo, the main quest and blessings should involve rewards not be used as means to gate content and artificially restrict exploration.

I don't know any game that opens up completely for the exploration from the get go, not Wizardries, not Krondor and certainly not MM 6-8. There's always a starting area, always some artificial barrier (remember the field of fragrant flowers in W7?). In Krondor the game flat out tells you that you're not supposed to go that far yet and is done with it.

 

[cvv]

Initially, Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters. Fans complained

Immershun fags poison everything. Krondor-style single screen towns would be perfectly fine.

 

[Abelian]

- MM10: much more tactical, positioning system essential to support the tactics, positioning system completely gone.
There are two completely separate issues that you're conflating to make a stawman. One issue is that MM10 doesn't have a positioning system while MM1-2 had, which is a nonissue because MM3-8 didn't have one had a very basic one

Very good point. I often feel like my defender doesn't live up to his name, since if I'm ever in a combat that results in a TPK, he's the last one standing. So much for defending the rest of the party...
Sure his armor, shield, and dwarf HP makes him a formidable tank, but with the taunt only applicable to one enemy (who often resists it), I feel that he is much more limited than he would be if he were actually absorbing damage on the front line.

 

[gunman]

I'm in Act 2 and it gets better and better.

Question: if a monster is shown to be immune to Mind manipulation, what are the spells that are mind-related. I know for example that the "time stop" kind of spell is one of them, but is there a complete list?

Also it seems that some descriptions are not 100% accurate. For example the "Unstoppable Assault" says it always hits and ignores blocking, but I had several instances when it was blocked. Or for a dual wield, it only works for the main hand and the other hand is just a regular attack?

 

[Infinitron]

Initially, Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters.

I don't remember this, source?

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the stuff we heard about the towns in Blackguards?

 

[Excidium]

I'm in Act 2 and it gets better and better.

Question: if a monster is shown to be immune to Mind manipulation, what are the spells that are mind-related. I know for example that the "time stop" kind of spell is one of them, but is there a complete list?

Taunt, silence, etc. Basically control effects that affect the mind. Body manipulation is stuff like stun, knockback, immobilize, etc.

 

[Abelian]

Initially, Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters.

I don't remember this, source?

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the stuff we heard about the towns in Blackguards?

Here's an old poll from Ubi forums, but I'm sure it was discussed on the Codex at one point. I'll do a little for research.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Initially, Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters.

I don't remember this, source?

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the stuff we heard about the towns in Blackguards?

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/mightmagicx/previews.html

For one, towns are once again static pictures of people at the location which have basic dialog options. Clicking on, say, the local alcemist brings up a rumor she heard (more or less a tooltip in the game I played), while another option opened up a basic trade screen for potions.

 

[Infinitron]

Initially, Limbic wanted to implement towns as a single screen where you could interact with all the characters.

I don't remember this, source?

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the stuff we heard about the towns in Blackguards?

Here's an old poll from Ubi forums, but I'm sure it was discussed on the Codex at one point. I'll do a little for research.

That's from 2011 and it's about Heroes...

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/mightmagicx/previews.html

For one, towns are once again static pictures of people at the location which have basic dialog options. Clicking on, say, the local alcemist brings up a rumor she heard (more or less a tooltip in the game I played), while another option opened up a basic trade screen for potions.

Oh yeah. I think we thought that was some kind of mistake by the previewer? I'd be very surprised if this game ever had (or at least, was ever meant to have) non-walkable towns. That would be excessively un-Xeen-like.