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Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

Nael

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https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/52162f14e754b6c661000004

greeting.jpg


Our own resident dwarf @JarlFrank ! /wave

Also did you hit on that girl to your right? Tell me you did because you had no competition. There's old dad to your left, some guy with dumb crap written on his t-shirt, a fat dweeb, a creepy looking guy with rape eyes, and a frenchman wearing a ridiculous looking hat.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Australian site PC Authority whines about repair costs: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Feature/354509,preview-might-magic-x-legacy.aspx?utm_source=feed&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=PC & Tech Authority - Latest Articles

The game has a number of bugbears though; game design concepts that were novel or just a necessity due to limitations in the 90s, are frustrating and out of line with what gamers will accept these days. Why should I only be able to carry supplies for four days? Why should there be a fixed cost to set my total to four supplies, regardless of how many I currently have. Why is repair for weapons one flat cost, regardless of how many are broken and how good the broken weapons are. In general, costs are flat and for me that breaks immersion. Maybe I'm a weird, weird guy, but when I go to a blacksmith and he quotes one price no matter how much work is involved, he's either running a scam, or he is the worst business man of all time. And further, it makes me feel like I'm wasting money fixing one dagger. Do I buy another dagger instead, or do I just leave it broken and hope I don't lose a fight by a few HP? On the topic of weapons and armour breaking, the amount of time you can spend adventuring is ridiculous. The days are so short you burn through supplies relatively fast, there's no option to stuff your packs full of supplies (they take up 0 space, but you can only carry 4) for a long trip, or for exploring, and your weapons/armour break with such regularity against powerful opponents that it drives you crazy. If you don't have or can't afford spares that are decent quality for all your armour and weapons, then it may mean you have to leave the wilderness and trek back into town (wasting time, which means wasting supplies) to repair your gear for a flat fee that bears no relationship to how many and what type of broken items you have.

Pure and simple, this may be nostalgia for players of older Might and Magic games, but I think it's rehashing some once acceptable design decision that now just seem like mistakes. What game design rationale justifies flat fees for repairs? What rationale justifies such limited camping supplies especially when damage to weapons/armour is going to force players to break off their conquests eventually anyway?

While this is admittedly early code, and there's every chance this should change, it's frustrating that it made it this far in the game design process. Games shouldn't include design choices simply because it's tradition; at one point it was traditional for RTS players to have to click ‘move’ and ‘attack’ buttons to give orders to their units. As time moved on, and contextual right (and in some games left) clicking took over. Forcing the player to click the ‘move’ button, when they can communicate that by right clicking on the ground is frustrating and pointless. Likewise, forcing players to return to base so often to replenish supplies and repair weapons is frustrating, annoying, and doesn't help them feel like they are in a magical fantasy world at all. It makes them feel like the game is gaming them, to force them to spend their gold, and reduce the speed they can accrue cool items.

"Flat fees" = nostalgic design:popamole:
 

Jack Dandy

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I fucking HATE how "frustrating" apparently because such a terrible element in the eyes of gaming "journalists".

"God forbid, the player gets FRUSTRATED!", and then they apply it to the dumbest things. Like every playthrough should be nothing but sunshine and happiness. I hope this kind of shit won't sway the Devteam's minds.
 

Caim

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Gaming journalists should be forbidden to use the word "bugbears" to describe anything in the game that is not a mythological creature. Unless the game comes with a physical being that tries you eat your upon opening the game case the word should never be used.
 

Shadenuat

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Seem like valid problems, what am I missing? Amount of gold spent on repair should scale depending on durability left. And why only 4 supplies? In MMVI and beyond amount of supplies depended on quality of tavern you get them in, but making them scale with overall STR of party or adding a tweak to inventory system could work too.
 

Zeriel

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As far as I've noticed so far, there isn't really "durability" on items. They simply break or don't, depending on events. Critical strikes always break them, for instance.

Also, broken items basically mean nothing (90% damage as compared to 100% normally). Wouldn't mind seeing some changes to make it more impactful, but as it is it isn't something to complain about unless you have OCD.

Supply cap is 6, and is there to get you back into town regularly. That said, there is the hireling that lets you rest without supplies.
 

Nael

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Gaming journalists should be forbidden to use the word "bugbears" to describe anything in the game that is not a mythological creature. Unless the game comes with a physical being that tries you eat your upon opening the game case the word should never be used.

It bothers me even more when I think about the word "bugbear" spoken with an Australian accent.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
My beef with that preview is that it refers to these things as "nostalgic". I can think of arguments for and against those rules, but they don't seem to have anything to do with nostalgia.
 
Last edited:

Shadenuat

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I don't see the problem with supplies, personally. Care to elaborate?

You know better if you played demo, but I think it's better when player has to escape the dungeon because he did not spent his resources like HP and MP well, grabbed too much loot or failed at combat, than if some set in stone counter ran out. In Grimlock some races ate more than others, and you could eat monster parts and collect mushrooms and such if you searched everything.
I think it would indeed be frustrating for many to make a pointless run to the city when they are at the point of finishing something, with party alive and well and inventory not stucked, ect.
I may be wrong, I need to know more about the system first of course.
 

Visbhume

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Jun 21, 2004
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Seem like valid problems, what am I missing? Amount of gold spent on repair should scale depending on durability left.

A flat rate makes you choose between having your weapons repaired sooner at a higher cost per weapon, and waiting a little and pay a smaller cost per weapon. So maybe it is a gameplay vs. realism thing.
 

Arkeus

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I think it would indeed be frustrating for many to make a pointless run to the city when they are at the point of finishing something, with party alive and well and inventory not stucked, ect.
I may be wrong, I need to know more about the system first of course.
Unless i completely err, you need supply only for resting, which means you only need them in order to gain back all your life/mana.

So, huh, it's basic ressource management. Sure, it may not be currently balanced (we need people here who actually played the demo to tell us) but the concept of having a very limited supply is GOOD.
 

narupley

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Apr 12, 2013
Messages
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I agree with the points he brought up, if nothing else. The same thing goes for identifying items and repairing them... the mechanic is just horrible. Try it out for yourself... playing through the alpha, you get next to NO gold from monsters. You spend your entire adventure trying to kill one Kenshi, and you get literally 3 gold. And meanwhile all of your weapons have been broken and one of your guys is unconscious so you have to go back into town, spend 30 gold to revive your unconscious party member if you don't have someone capable of healing yet, and spend 75 gold to repair your weapons. Simple math shows that something's gotta give.
 

Storyfag

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I agree with the points he brought up, if nothing else. The same thing goes for identifying items and repairing them... the mechanic is just horrible. Try it out for yourself... playing through the alpha, you get next to NO gold from monsters. You spend your entire adventure trying to kill one Kenshi, and you get literally 3 gold. And meanwhile all of your weapons have been broken and one of your guys is unconscious so you have to go back into town, spend 30 gold to revive your unconscious party member if you don't have someone capable of healing yet, and spend 75 gold to repair your weapons. Simple math shows that something's gotta give.

They've been repeating over and over that balancing creature drops is on their to-do list and that they're well aware of the present problems.

Re: food
Don't you have to rest because your characters get tired too, and not only to regen health/mana? In that case the limit of 6 is quite restrictive, while the hireling allowing resting without the use of food is waaay overpowered. Maybe if some more food could be harvested from the surroundings, while the limit was a bit higher...
 

Zeriel

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The hireling only allows one rest per day, which is 8 hours out of 24. It's all fairly balanced from what I've seen (one of the few parts of the game that is that way, really), although it'll be interesting to see how it plays out with truly huge dungeons. Mana pools in general probably need some work, in the early access you have to rest way more often than in Might and Magic 6 or 7, due to starter spells costing 1/3 your total pool.
 

mediocrepoet

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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I've been running around with about 5000 gold at the moment and around 1600 for a good while. Most of your gp comes from quests and chests, not random combat. I don't understand what people are doing to hit money shortages in the way being described. As far as fees for things go, it's just a money sink, so whatever. And it might even be that the flat fee is just a placeholder for the demo area. There are a few places where you can see disabled substitutions like {0}, so I didn't imagine pricing and items not respawning in shops to be necessarily representative of the final game.

The shops never getting new inventory has led to some weird things though like times where you can have an armour skill but never find any armour for the character to use. Some times I've seen clothing sold, sometimes leather armour and sometimes bronze armour. But I've never seen all three in one game. A similar situation happens for weapon varieties. I'm guessing that's not likely going to be the case with the final release.

I'm a bit more concerned about some bugs that have cropped up and hope they'll be ironed out before the game's release. UI glitches, monsters dying but staying on screen, a few lock ups (one of them from using the push spell on monsters in melee - sometimes it locks the game up), etc. But for the most part, the game runs fine for me and I've had a good time with it. Unlike the RoA remake, I don't regret dropping money on MMX at all - even in this early state.

In any case, I've been loving the demo. It's led to me staying up too late and endangering my health/productivity. So it's a good thing the full version is a ways off. I have a lot of stuff to do! ;)
 

Nael

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...due to starter spells costing 1/3 your total pool.

That's my major complaint about the balance of the game besides the length of days and time each move takes (which is easily adjusted in the config). Your caster starts with about 45 mana and the base fire bolt spell costs 25... That's ridiculous.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
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Jun 17, 2012
Messages
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There's also stuff like the starter water spell (ice bolt) costing the same mana as firebolt, and doing a third of the damage with no apparent debuff or secondary effect that would account for that. The people on the forums (primarily the Steam forums) taking the current build as representative of... well... anything really do quite a bit to redefine the word "ignorant".
 

Stabwound

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Dec 17, 2008
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Well, I guess this is why they released it as an early access game. Free beta testing.

Actually, you're paying to beta test. Even better.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
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Jun 17, 2012
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13,963
Oh, god.

@mediocrepoet's signature, and the article therein

Regarding the Piratebay trial, and the aftermath.

In a separate quote given to the New York Times, she also predicted the eventual downfall of the Pirate Bay and sites like it. "My assessment is that in two years this type of piracy activity will be completely dead," Wadsted said.

I wonder what it feels like for people like that lady to be so horrifically wrong. Also, how does someone get paid to make such assessments. Seems like a pretty awesome gig.
 

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