Morrowind is utter tripe

[Harthwain]

Exploration is one of the game's biggest strengths, and that counts as gameplay. Exploration is also one of the few elements which BOTH Morrowind and Gothic 1 & 2 excel at.

Is it, though?
There's nothing of interest in Morrowind's dungeon, for the most part. And by "most part", I mean 95% of them. Dungeons are usually boring as fuck; the occasional rare equipment piece doesn't turn a bad dungeon into a good one.

I do contest the notion that just because dungeons aren't somehow special/unique it means you don't get any sense of exploration when checking out the locations you never visited. And since we are already on the subject, what is your idea of good/interesting dungeon or how would you do dungeons in Morrowind to make them good/interesting for the player?

You don't go to Morrowind's dungeons looking necessarily for artifacts or interesting stuff. You go to smuggler caves for Soul Gems and money, to Daedric ruins for Daedra Hearts, to Dwemer Ruins for early game heavy armor, to Ancestral Tombs to recharge your magicka if you're Atronach. Most of these dungeons are compact as they should be, since there is nothing special about them. And occasionally you stumble upon something you weren't looking for.

Also, a lot of places exist solely for the sake of internal consistency - because it makes sense in terms of the in-game world for these location to be where they are, even if it isn't quest-related.

 

[luj1]

Sigourn is a well-known retard and one of those "6000 hours played, game sucks" people. Don't forget he (self-admittedly) looked up every dungeon on the wiki to see if he missed anything. While playing.

 

[Beans00]

Sigourn is a well-known retard and one of those "6000 hours played, game sucks" people. Don't forget he (self-admittedly) looked up every dungeon on the wiki to see if he missed anything. While playing.

He's making better arguments then you are.

 

[Zibniyat]

Don't forget he (self-admittedly) looked up every dungeon on the wiki to see if he missed anything. While playing.

Amazing, and it is true.

I don't use the wiki to choose locations to explore. I only use it to confirm that, once I've fully cleared out a dungeon, I didn't miss anything.

I've always been of the opinion that GD is where all the worst 'tards are residing, but reading game threads always yields much more... unique insights into all possibilities of personalities of this world, many quite literally not right in the head.

I wonder what else did he look up on the wiki lol.

By the way, if you've played a game for hundred or more hours you loose the right to call it anything other than exceptionally good. The disgusting hypocrites need to start being hunted down and eliminated!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

can you do this in morrowind?

no?
checkmate, morrowlovers

 

[Sigourn]

I do contest the notion that just because dungeons aren't somehow special/unique it means you don't get any sense of exploration when checking out the locations you never visited. And since we are already on the subject, what is your idea of good/interesting dungeon or how would you do dungeons in Morrowind to make them good/interesting for the player?

For starters, make dungeons significantly different to each other so I don't get a sense of deja vu every time I enter a new cave/tomb/daedric ruin/etc.
It kills any joy of exploration because you aren't really "exploring" anything. Just revisiting another cave that looks suspiciously similar to the last few caves you viisted. Are there exceptions? Sure. But something tells me if Morrowind didn't have 300 dungeons, then more effort could have been put into the ones remaining.

 

[Sigourn]

You assume much, too much, about someone from a single post on a certain topic. Fanboy? You mean someone who will uncritically praise something and pretend how it has no flaws? Well then that cannot be me.

"I'm not a fanboy."
proceeds to go on a fanboy rant

Morrowind's dialogue has nothing in common with real life dialogue. Meanwhile, dialogue in most RPGs do. If people have nothing to say to you, they will likely not stop to chat with you. If people have something to say to you, however, their personality will shine through in dialogue. Or, at the very least, they won't use the exact same generic and lifeless words another person has used before.

Morrowind style dialogue (fittingly, straight out of a wiki):

Geckos are reptilian and born with a pair of fins behind their heads. Their eyes possess an orange tint, and their body coloration differs greatly depending on the gecko subspecies in question. Geckos have evolved with five fingers and five toes. Dependent on the type, they range from the size of a small human child, to heights exceeding that of an average human adult.

New Vegas style dialogue:

Bunch of little monsters is what they are. It seems like Doc Mitchell treats more gecko bites than anything else.

I hope I've illustrated my point.

 

[Falksi]

Morrowind's dialogue has nothing in common with real life dialogue.

Not even the letters?

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

Morrowind doesn't really have a lot of dialogue. There are a few instances here and there where you can actually select a response and have the character reply (Vivek and Dagoth Ur interactions come to mind), but mostly it's not dialogue, but rather wiki-style monologue.

 

[Justicar]

Trash game for trash brains.

 

[eli]

can you do this in morrowind?

no?
checkmate, morrowlovers morroboomers

 

[explorer1911]

You could discard like half of all guild quests and the game wouldnt suffer from it.

That was because they wanted you to be able to reach the highest rank in a guild without having to do every single quest, in case you didn't like one of the quest givers/their quests, or more importantly they were dead. Therefore they had to load the game up with what was more or less filler quests. They aren't bad though, just generally pretty basic. They still tie into the world nicely. For instance there's a House Redoran quest where you have to rescue a pilgrim that got kidnapped by Ashlanders. They want 5000 gold for him as he told them he was a noble since he thought they'd kill him otherwise. You can pay the 5000, you can kill the Ashlanders, or you can convince the Ashlanders that the pilgrim isn't a noble, after which they will humorously lower the ransom to 5 gold. This quest really isn't much, it's standard fare, but before you get to this quest you've probably heard a decent bit about Ashlanders from "civilized" Dunmer and how savage they are, and now you actually get to interact with them. The people in the game don't talk about the problems in their world for no reason, they're actual problems that you're probably going to have to deal with too. Even though a lot of those quests dealing with those problems could probably just be cut, and maybe even would make the overall experience of playing the game better as it could tighten up the pacing, it would definitely make the world feel less deep, which is most players' favorite part about the game.

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

For instance there's a House Redoran quest where you have to rescue a pilgrim that got kidnapped by Ashlanders. They want 5000 gold for him as he told them he was a noble since he thought they'd kill him otherwise. You can pay the 5000, you can kill the Ashlanders, or you can convince the Ashlanders that the pilgrim isn't a noble, after which they will humorously lower the ransom to 5 gold. This quest really isn't much, it's standard fare, but before you get to this quest you've probably heard a decent bit about Ashlanders from "civilized" Dunmer and how savage they are, and now you actually get to interact with them.

Which would have been fine, if it the wiki-style monologue system didn't rob everyone of their personality and make Ashlanders sound pretty much the same as any other NPCs.

 

[explorer1911]

Which would have been fine, if it the wiki-style monologue system didn't rob everyone of their personality and make Ashlanders sound pretty much the same as any other NPCs.

I wasn't even talking about the dialogue, I was talking about how even the filler quests do an important job of world building even though they don't contribute to specific faction narratives. I don't think Morrowind's dialogue system was a good choice, and even the person whose idea it was (Ken Rolston) didn't end up liking it. He said the original intention was to create a sort of "keyword novel" where your adventure is logged in a way that reads like a book or something, whereas the journal in Morrowind just reads like a normal RPG journal with some flavor text. The dialogue filtering system was also very flawed, many characters would say things that made no sense, slavers would comment on how they don't disagree with abolitionists, abolitionists would comment on how they don't disagree with slavery, topics weren't removed after all information was learned from them, it was a mess. But like I said, I'm talking about the world building. What's important isn't what the Ashlanders say, but what they did, and how it's consistent with what you may know about them, and gives you an opportunity to deal with a problem the people of Vvardenfell claim to face. It's mundane but it's immersive and important.

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

Which would have been fine, if it the wiki-style monologue system didn't rob everyone of their personality and make Ashlanders sound pretty much the same as any other NPCs.

I wasn't even talking about the dialogue, I was talking about how even the filler quests do an important job of world building even though they don't contribute to specific faction narratives. I don't think Morrowind's dialogue system was a good choice, and even the person whose idea it was (Ken Rolston) didn't end up liking it. He said the original intention was to create a sort of "keyword novel" where your adventure is logged in a way that reads like a book or something, whereas the journal in Morrowind just reads like a normal RPG journal with some flavor text. The dialogue filtering system was also very flawed, many characters would say things that made no sense, slavers would comment on how they don't disagree with abolitionists, abolitionists would comment on how they don't disagree with slavery, topics weren't removed after all information was learned from them, it was a mess. But like I said, I'm talking about the world building. What's important isn't what the Ashlanders say, but what they did, and how it's consistent with what you may know about them, and gives you an opportunity to deal with a problem the people of Vvardenfell claim to face. It's mundane but it's immersive and important.

What?

 

[corvax]

For what is worth, and to completely insert myself in this thread in an unrelated tangential comment, they say that your favorite Elder Scrolls game is the first one you play. Folks that played Daggerfall first claim that it’s better than Morrowind. Folks that played Morrowind first claim that it’s better than Daggerfall and oblivion. Folks that played Skyrim first claim it’s better than sliced bread. The three people that played Elder Scrolls Travels on their flip phones are probably rotting away in a Haitian prison because they thought that just anyone can overthrow a government.

Anyway, I fall into the Morrowind camp but at least I know why I fall into it. Do any of you remember how many hand crafted open world rpgs we had in 2002? Yeah, I thought so. Gothic was decent if you could grow another pair of arms just to bloody control your character via the keyboard. Yea, we had BG2 and NWN at that time but those games were so different by design that I would hesitate to lump them as games I would compare or measure against each other. At the time, Morrowind took me places no other game did. Yea it was clunky. Yea I was running it at 9FPS on my Gateway. But oh the lore, oh the freedom! Yea I had to sheepishly set my own rules because the devs were too lazy to stop me from becoming the head of every house and guild on the island. But oh, how I will never forget joining the Temple and setting off on a pilgrimage only with the clothes on my back, and maybe a scroll of chameleon or two. Ok, fine I did have a skooma bottle stashed away and met that talking crab one time but I was really high and it was really dark outside.

Would I experience Morrowind the same way today? Not quite. A replay might bring a nostalgic tear into my eye but I no longer have all the free hours in the day to get myself lost in this world. And my own little lenses that I use to view the world have been skewed by all the other crap I’ve seen and played since 2002. But please, take your poisoned apple and don’t shit on my nostalgic memories. They’re not that accurate but as with many things in life they’re much better in my head than in reality.

Ok, I’m off the podium. Maybe I’ll post again in 2024.

 

[explorer1911]

What?

What was confusing about what I said? You roped dialogue complaints into a conversation that wasn't about that and I told you I agree it was a problem but I was talking about the large amount of faction quests that don't seem to actually add to that faction's story.

 

[jackofshadows]

Even though a lot of those quests dealing with those problems could probably just be cut, and maybe even would make the overall experience of playing the game better as it could tighten up the pacing, it would definitely make the world feel less deep, which is most players' favorite part about the game.

Uhh, how exactly picking fucking mushrooms is making world feel deeper? They should've just cut those filler quests into Oblivion and adjust rep rewards or something.

But please, take your poisoned apple and don’t shit on my nostalgic memories.

Pathetic.

 

[Zibniyat]

Morrowind style dialogue (fittingly, straight out of a wiki):

Geckos are reptilian and born with a pair of fins behind their heads. Their eyes possess an orange tint, and their body coloration differs greatly depending on the gecko subspecies in question. Geckos have evolved with five fingers and five toes. Dependent on the type, they range from the size of a small human child, to heights exceeding that of an average human adult.

New Vegas style dialogue:

Bunch of little monsters is what they are. It seems like Doc Mitchell treats more gecko bites than anything else.

I hope I've illustrated my point.

Yes, you have. I stand corrected.

I seems I was wrong after all, and that Morrowind's NPCs and dialogues are more useful and superior to those of real people! And those of RPGs desperately trying to emulate how "real people" (read: the lowest of the low) talk. Thank you for making me realise this, I just got the urge to replay Morrowind now...

 

[Zibniyat]

For what is worth, and to completely insert myself in this thread in an unrelated tangential comment, they say that your favorite Elder Scrolls game is the first one you play.

There are exceptions to this, myself included. I was a teenager back then and, considering I didn't have easy access to either a computer or games in my country, the first of the Elder Scrolls that I played was Oblivion. In fact, Oblivion was one of the first games that I played. This is why I don't outright hate it, but I can admit to its many flaws. I remember being blown away by the pretty looking, free-form open world game, and a seemingly alive world (I still remember fondly my first entrance to the Market District of the Imperial City, so many people, who talked randomly to each other, really made it feel alive).

A few years later, I tried Morrowind. Actually, it was not the first attempt, as I was usually put off by the rather awkward animations (Argonians walking is among the funniest thing ever). However, once I managed to go through the initial dislike of animation and some graphical elements, I was enchanted by such a wonderful world and a game. It most definitely is my favourite Elder Scrolls game thus far, and one for which I have no problem stating is far superior to Oblivion, and even more to Skyrim (I find Skyrim dumb and inferior to Oblivion as well).

 

[Harthwain]

(I find Skyrim dumb and inferior to Oblivion as well).

How so?

 

[Zibniyat]

(I find Skyrim dumb and inferior to Oblivion as well).

How so?

Oh I forgot most of it, I think I made a post or two about it here years ago. For example, AFAIK, Oblivion at least had some quests which didn't involve killing everyone, whilst Skyrim from my experience always had, even for the Thieves guild I think. Skyrim doubled down on retardation that is the GPS system and modern quest-compass, where quest-givers often times didn't even tell you the location to go but instead just said "you need to go here" and the location gets magically placed on a map (on the other side of the world most often). Then there is further simplification and dumbing down when it comes to skills (some were removed), the ability to do alchemy and enchant things (some of these things either miss completely or are substantially reduced compared to Oblivion). Even major qustlines were dumbed down and simplified, for example in Oblivion you had to do a series of minor quests (and quite diverse at that, in principle; let's put the execution of it all aside now) to join the famous and prestigious Arcane University, while in Skyrim you could be a lowly level 1 whatever and still be granted access to that University or whatever it was called there.

Skyrim was simplified, streamlined and naturally dumbed down in every way compared to Oblivion.

The only two things where Skyrim outdid Oblivion was art direction and graphics; both the look and feel of various towns and dungeons were improved, they weren't as generic as in Oblivion. Graphically, Skyrim was superior, but not in every way, for example trees and grass in Oblivion felt more natural and real (don't mix it up with realistic) than the flat-looking ones of Skyrim. On the other hand, Skyrim had no large cities like the Imperial City of Oblivion, and only had nicely designed but way too small towns.

Oblivion's expansion, the Shivering Isles, brought much needed wonder and alien feeling to the generic Oblivion. I don't know about Skyrim's expansions since I did not play them even though I did buy them at one point; I was simply so disgusted by the simplification of Skyrim that I had no desire to play its expansions.

Etc.

 

[Valdetiosi]

Saying Morrowind is bad doesn't put it in equal foot with Oblivion or Skyrim. It may be "bad", but honestly I rather play it than those 2 if I were to be forced on it.

I rather play a game where I can screw around and actually kill people rather than see them get on their knees and stand up after 30 seconds.
I rather play a game where I can chug potions to fortify attributes until I have a potion that lasts for 3 real life hours.
I rather play a game where I can jump from one end of the map to other.

And yes, I rather play a game that doesn't throw forced cutscenes that halt player movement. It's so funny how interactive and free Morrowind is compared to it's sequels.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Skyrim doubled down on retardation that is the GPS system and modern quest-compass, where quest-givers often times didn't even tell you the location to go but instead just said "you need to go here" and the location gets magically placed on a map (on the other side of the world most often).

For minor quests it's usually because the location is randomly picked from a list of appropriate ones. Guess they didn't want to write "I need someone to retrieve my item from _________ , a cave where the bandits hide" because the voice acting avoiding the filled-in name would make it obvious.

 

[Naharcito]

Is there perhaps anyone willing to debate or challenge this game based upon its true virtues?

You are trying way too hard to make this attempt appear genuine. Sounds a lot more like somebody's sleeper account. But I am willing to indulge you.

Firstly, I am a longtime RPG veteran. Having played games, such as. Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Fallout New Vegas, Oblivion and of course system shock. So when I say I am fairly well versed in the quality and merits of what makes a GOOD "rpg". Rather then, what make an RPG infact utter tripe.

You make an appeal from authority argument in your first sentence, mentioning a bunch of well known RPG Codex favourites. You claim it means you're "fairly well versed in the quality and merits of what makes a GOOD >rpg<" and... fail to provide any argument where ANY of the aforementioned RPGs is contrasted with Morrowind. Call me skeptical, but it looks a lot like you are merely attempting to make your opinion sound more educated by bringing up the classics rather than showing us your deep understanding of "the quality and merits of what makes a good RPG".

Firstly I was shocked, apalled, nay, even dsigusted by the lack of role playing experience in this game. The whole of the game seemed to assume, that as an educated gamer and RPG veteran. I would be content with simply traversing the barren hellscape of the land known as morrowind. At first as I stepped off the boat and realized there was no true RPG system in this game. I was disgusted. Nevertheless I decided to press onward through the opening city. However, Every settlement I happened across had almost no population. The world was completely static and desolate.

And you "realized there was no true RPG system in this game" because...? Also, how big is population is settlements in other RPGs? How MOBILE are the people? This is exactly what I mean by you not providing the actual arguments to back up your opinion.

Each character I encountered had so artistic soul or creativity into their personality. They were simply empty shells there for text exposition. Nevertheless I pushed forward into this "game" of sorts. When I happened upon a chance combat encounter. I quickly discovered to my horror how awful the combat system truly was. You simply spam your right click! Of course how genius!. This coupled with the general poor skill system, coupled with the absolutely dreary world. In my expert opinion this game is clearly of poor quality and value.

Why was the skill system poor? The skill system was a bit more complex than "spam your right click!", although it's very easy to sum it up as such. In fact, I would argue that Morrowind is an example of how you put RP in G. Because it isn't enough for the player to aim well - you had to be proficient enough for your blows to land on your opponent (and vice versa). Was that simple? Sure. But separating the player from the character is one of the staples of the role playing genre.

In conclusion; I find it extremely fitting that the game world is covered in giant mushrooms. Mushrooms of course grow in shit, if anyone is unaware of this.

In case you didn't realize this until now, your post is pretty shitty in itself - as proved by my response - so I am going to give you an appropriate rating. Morrowind does have its flaws and there are good arguments to be made against it, but you are obviously not the right person for that, Mister "Educated Gamer And RPG Veteran".

Based and skoomapilled.

Morrowind is one of the best Elder Scrolls entries. It is a great RPG by itself. This kind of posting is just threadbaiting.