Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[Curious_Tongue]

Don't call me a luddite for not being wowed by another tool being made to graphically butcher Morrowind.

I'm calling you a luddite mockingly, since you're fine with technology streamlining things like communication, but cry about it when it might make modding video games faster, easier and no longer the sole domain of autists.

I'm not crying about it, I'm just not that impressed.

I mean the technology is cool. But games are more than their graphics.

I'm not really a fan of mods. They almost never add to the features I like in games. Especially RPGs.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Jesus...
Leave to you guys to have a meltdown over a tech demo

 

[Zibniyat]

Morrowind sucked

Your mom sucked

Spoiler

my dick.

 

[Seethe]

These discussions always end up with retards complaining about "muh original vision" while talking about a game expressedly designed with mod support in mind. Almost as if the devs themselves acknowledged that their "original vision" wasn't final...

What a dumbfuck statement. Just because they enabled mod support, that doesn't mean they didn't have an original vision for the game. Especially for Morrowind of all things, which people always praised for its very unique and specific "alien" and exotic feel.

Says the luddite as he furiously taps away on his keyboard.

Don't call me a luddite for not being wowed by another tool being made to graphically butcher Morrowind.

You have to consume product and stop asking questions. Every pointless/sidegrading/downgrading tech that money was wasted on has to be applauded, you luddite.

Don't call me a luddite for not being wowed by another tool being made to graphically butcher Morrowind.

I'm calling you a luddite mockingly, since you're fine with technology streamlining things like communication, but cry about it when it might make modding video games faster, easier and no longer the sole domain of autists.

Let's make this very clear: like with all things, autistis will always be better than you no matter what gimmick you use. Because taking shortcuts and becoming overly dependent on shit like this will result in you shitting out mediocre garbage. Because you have no idea what you're doing, as proven in this fugly example. It's a story as old as time. The current "AI" craze seems to have turned a lot of skilless, worthless idiots into deluding themselves that they can skip over all those boring yet necessary processes of learning how to do things. The reality is that if the gimmick turns out to be actually worthwile, the autists will use the same crutch you will attempt to use, and beat you with it if necessary.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

View attachment 28652
View attachment 28653

Both look terrible lol.

Back in the day, I remember a lot of people being disappointed with Morrowind's character graphics. That's why you see so many texture and mesh replacers.

I think most people just thought it was engine limitations or something. It wasn't until we saw Oblivion's NPCs that we realized that Bethesda simply didn't know what they were doing.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Let's make this very clear: like with all things, autistis will always be better than you no matter what gimmick you use.

Lol. No, they won't. It's not a question of being better. A lot of their mods SUCK. A lot of them are only a few steps above Prosper.

They simply have more time and focus. They will be able to do the job I wouldn't waste my time on, but that does not equate to being better.

E.g., whomever made the Witcher 3 EE mod is a complete sperg. I like the mod ftmp, and would never waste my time working for free the way he has, but that doesn't mean some of his decisions aren't pants on head stupid and bad design. Like his ridiculous idea that Quen works like normal electricity instead of magic. So, if you even touch water at all, he has a script that kills you instantly. Which makes no sense, since if it were normal electricity, it would dissipate into the ground long before you touched the water.

And even though nearly every other feature of the mod has an option to disable it, he refuses to make one for that. So that means players have to delete his passive aggressive autism out by hand before installing. The dude even called it "kill player for lulz" in the script. Which would be funny if it weren't stupid, annoying and mandatory.

And every time I edit his script, I am better than he is at modding because I'm not making a dumb decision based on a combination of whim, a poor understanding of physics and bizarre some form of social anxiety disorder.

Because you have no idea what you're doing, as proven in this fugly example.

This 'fugly example' looks better than many of the Morrowind texture mods there right now, many of which use much less sophisticated AIs for their upscaling already. Because even autists aren't going to waste their time redrawing every game texture by hand.

Ow wow, how can AI hope to compete with the might of autism? If only I had taken the time to learn how to make the game look this bad.

The current "AI" craze seems to have turned a lot of skilless, worthless idiots into deluding themselves that they can skip over all those boring yet necessary processes of learning how to do things. The reality is that if the gimmick turns out to be actually worthwile, the autists will use the same crutch you will attempt to use, and beat you with it if necessary.

Your name is very apt. You're seething over a tech demo. Maybe you should ask yourself why that is.

Personally, I rejoice at the idea that spergs will have some competition. Every one of them turns into a prima donna, who inevitably gets offended by some random comment and then tries to take their ball and go home, deleting the mod or whatever other passive aggressive nonsense.

'sup Drog.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Dude, what the fuck is your investment in this shit?

It's like you have a dream of being a star TES modder but you don't have any skills and think this tech will overcome that or something.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Investment? I didn't even post the video lol. And I haven't played Morrowind in years. Daggerfall is better.

Nah, I just see a lot of people buttbothered by AI and it makes me want to post more about it.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I just think pirate ships are cool so I like Daggerfall more. If you could actually do something with the ships besides fast travel then that would've been even cooler. That's what I would've done for a TES sequel. Although it's pretty hard to maintain the scale of a hand-crafted world that is actually small and relies on trickery to appear large when you can just sail everywhere, which is why I imagine RPGs stopped featuring sea travel a long time ago. Except for Sea Dogs.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

also the technology seems to add candles and grandma's jewelry case to tables

That's because it's not the technology. It's 3D modeling done by the guy who did the video of this tech showcase. Most of this stuff is manual edits, using AI as a tool, not just clicking a button. You can see how bad it looks when he just clicks the button and applies the AI to every texture and object in the scene. Characters suddenly look like they're made of plastic. The whole point of all this is they they've built multiple tools to make modding faster and easier, some of which use AI. It's not a "click a button and upgrade the game" showcase.

Even though I already said that, the acronym AI already has some posters seeing red and unable to process obvious information. The dude just posted all those screenshots and actually thinks it's AI doing all that.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I just think pirate ships are cool so I like Daggerfall more. If you could actually do something with the ships besides fast travel then that would've been even cooler. That's what I would've done for a TES sequel. Although it's pretty hard to maintain the scale of a hand-crafted world that is actually small and relies on trickery to appear large when you can just sail everywhere, which is why I imagine RPGs stopped featuring sea travel a long time ago. Except for Sea Dogs.

Buying ships, depositing gold at banks, buying houses, infinite quests, climbing, labyrinthian dungeons, a truly massive world.

Morrowind had cool lore and novel world art, but given that it lost all these features and still had wiki dialog, I felt like it was a step down by comparison in terms of gameplay.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I just think pirate ships are cool so I like Daggerfall more. If you could actually do something with the ships besides fast travel then that would've been even cooler. That's what I would've done for a TES sequel.

You might be interested to learn of a game called The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard from 1998:

 

[Curious_Tongue]

depositing gold at banks, buying houses,

I love the idea of buying shares like in Arx Fatalis. Buying shares in businesses and factions that aren't doing so well and seeing the prices rise when doing quests for them would really help make the world seem more interactive.

Maybe also a system that detects what the price of land should be and have it react to the changes you make to the world. A piece of land in Goblin infested territory would rise in value when you cleared out the Goblins for example.

infinite quests

Yeah, Skyrim had those. I wasn't impressed.

 

[Zlaja]

This talk about how Daggerfall had many more skills than Morrowind reminded me just how much of a missed opportunity those language skills really were in Daggerfall. Imagine if those skills weren't absolutely useless at lower levels and if you could level them up manually (without paying) much more efficiently? That would have been so cool (I refuse to use editors to cheat). Also, more games should offer similar skills, but implement them better than Daggerfall did.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Clearly Morrowind should have improved upon features of Daggerfall rather than simply removing them, but the approach they took is understandable considering Bethesda's circumstances at the time. It's only a shame that Morrowind's more conservative approach was taken to even further extremes in its sequels, when those games had no excuse besides wanting to appeal to consolefags.

 

[JarlFrank]

Fuck these graphic "enhancement" mods. I used some texture replacers many years ago because I thought fancier visuals = better look, but as I grew older I realized my youthful folly. The texture mods made the game look too different - different colors, different materials, leading to a different vibe. Same with texture overhaul mods for other games: the ones for Daggerfall Unity and the old Thief games are just as horrid. I don't mind texture mods that stay true to the original artstyle, but most don't. And in Morrowind, artstyle is a big draw of the game. It might be low poly, low res, and ugly from a purely visual fidelity level, but the devs put a lot of effort into creating a consistent style that brought the world to life and made it look like a real place.

All those texture mods shit on that. They change the materials of objects, the patterns on decorative textures, the colors, even the lighting. And usually it ends up looking worse than the original especially when you use other mods that add new content. Because people who make content mods with vanilla models and textures use those models and textures in very deliberate ways, and if you replace all the textures you will get a completely different look than what that content modder intended.

Morrowind's artstyle looks fucking great. Sure, it's low res, but who fucking cares? Adding high res textures to a low poly world always looks incongruous anyway.
The worst example is Thief's HD texture mod. Not a single texture looks like the originals, and when you play fan missions that use vanilla textures you can end up with some truly bizarre visuals because some fan mission authors use original textures in creative, unorthodox ways. Replacing those original textures means you completely fuck up that intended artistic vision.

You know what the intention of modding is? To allow passionate fans of the game to create new content and mechanics for fellow players. Not to make the game more presentable to retarded graphic whores.

If you want super HD ultra detailed high res textures, go outside.

 

[what am i doing]

Well, congratulations Nvidia! With the resources of a large, successful corporation, and with all the modern advancements in graphical processing, you've managed to create something that looks worse than a game made 20 years ago. Truly an achievement only a complete imbecile can be proud of, which I have no doubt many of modern-day developers, gamers and others are. Otherwise we would have gotten a few Morrowinds by now, but instead here we are incapable of creating something at least on its level and resorting to pitiful attempts at "enhancing" it, failing miserably as expected.

Final verdict: it is shit.
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That's the worst part innit? People will look at this and think it's great. Muh rendering, muh detailed textures! And that's it.

I want to see some characters too. Imagine the clashing of styles. You can see the mentality that made this into a reality, and that is the ENB and SweetFX mania, especially for the TES games, which always looked horrid. People seem to enjoy lens flares, and so much depth of field that would make an myopic octogenarian lady blush.

Any amount of DoF is fucking retarded, because the moment you look away from the exact centre of the screen, the DoF is no longer accurately representing the way your eyes focus and now whatever you're looking at (you, the user, not the ingame camera) is blurred out. When in real life your eyes focus on what you're looking at. The whole idea of tying DoF to the centre of the screen is idiotic, but that's really the only way you can handle it without eye tracking. So DoF is better off just not used at all, unless your game requires eye tracking hardware to run.

 

[JarlFrank]

DoF for faraway objects is realistic because I have myopia and everything that's far away is blurry

 

[Sigourn]

What a dumbfuck statement. Just because they enabled mod support, that doesn't mean they didn't have an original vision for the game. Especially for Morrowind of all things, which people always praised for its very unique and specific "alien" and exotic feel.

You completely misunderstood what I said.
That Bethesda makes their games with mod support in mind makes all "muh original vision!!1!!" complaints nonsensical. The game was expected to be modded. Not even the devs think of their original vision as something to be protected. Whether you like it or not doesn't matter, others do like it.

In other words, I'm not denying there was an original vision. What I'm criticizing is the idea that just because there was an original vision, mods that change it are bad.

 

[Sigourn]

Any amount of DoF is fucking retarded, because the moment you look away from the exact centre of the screen, the DoF is no longer accurately representing the way your eyes focus and now whatever you're looking at (you, the user, not the ingame camera) is blurred out. When in real life your eyes focus on what you're looking at. The whole idea of tying DoF to the centre of the screen is idiotic, but that's really the only way you can handle it without eye tracking. So DoF is better off just not used at all, unless your game requires eye tracking hardware to run.

Depth of field is only justified for taking screenshots. For playing, it's usually more an annoyance than anything else.

 

[Alex]

What a dumbfuck statement. Just because they enabled mod support, that doesn't mean they didn't have an original vision for the game. Especially for Morrowind of all things, which people always praised for its very unique and specific "alien" and exotic feel.

You completely misunderstood what I said.
That Bethesda makes their games with mod support in mind makes all "muh original vision!!1!!" complaints nonsensical. The game was expected to be modded. Not even the devs think of their original vision as something to be protected. Whether you like it or not doesn't matter, others do like it.

In other words, I'm not denying there was an original vision. What I'm criticizing is the idea that just because there was an original vision, mods that change it are bad.

You are being silly because Morrowind, of all TES games, is the one with the strongest original vision. In all of the older TES games, the lore and mood that are unique to that specific setting are present in a greater or lesser way, but it was Morrowind that amped that up to 11 out of Arena or Daggerfall or any of the spin offs (to be fair, I haven't played Redguard). Morrowind has an alien atmosphere that is specific of that that particular place, it has a lot of emphasis in the unique culture and history of the Dark Elves. Unlike Daggerfall, it doesn't look like a "standard" fantasy setting with medieval trappings and whatnot. Because of all that, it is probably the worst possible game you could use AI to "upscale" stuff.

And yes, it is completely possible to spoil all the mood and visuals with mods as well. That changes nothing about whether they are important to that particular game or not.

 

[JarlFrank]

Mods are a tool given to players to add, remove, or change things about the game.

It is possible to make mods that improve things, of course. Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel add high quality content that is true to the original vision of Morrowind and the extended Tamriel lore from that era (which is very different from modern TES lore). There are some quest mods that add more depth to the game's existing factions and make House Dagoth joinable. There are mods that re-model and expand existing dungeons to make them larger and more complex and interesting.

But it is also possible to make mods that worsen the experience, rather than enhance it. Half-assed graphic "improvement" mods that completely change the artistic style of the game are among those. The game's visuals become objectively worse when you use them. Some people may enjoy the "upgraded" visuals, but some people also think Jackson Pollock's random splotches of color are art. Objectively, these texture mods are a mess. They are often made very thoughtlessly, without regard for brightness, color, composition etc.

This is what games look like when you use HD texture mods:

 

[Sigourn]

You are being silly because Morrowind, of all TES games, is the one with the strongest original vision. In all of the older TES games, the lore and mood that are unique to that specific setting are present in a greater or lesser way, but it was Morrowind that amped that up to 11 out of Arena or Daggerfall or any of the spin offs (to be fair, I haven't played Redguard). Morrowind has an alien atmosphere that is specific of that that particular place, it has a lot of emphasis in the unique culture and history of the Dark Elves. Unlike Daggerfall, it doesn't look like a "standard" fantasy setting with medieval trappings and whatnot. Because of all that, it is probably the worst possible game you could use AI to "upscale" stuff.

And yes, it is completely possible to spoil all the mood and visuals with mods as well. That changes nothing about whether they are important to that particular game or not.

Again, completely ignoring what I said. So I'll spell it out for you.

1. I never denied Morrowind has a vision.
2. I'll state it plainly: Morrowind HAS a vision.
3. That it has a vision is no argument against people doing whatever the fuck they want with the game. It's their game. If you don't like it, I have good news: don't use mods.

Now can we please stop arguing autistically about what other people choose to do with their games?

 

[Zibniyat]

That Bethesda makes their games with mod support in mind makes all "muh original vision!!1!!" complaints nonsensical. The game was expected to be modded. Not even the devs think of their original vision as something to be protected.

All that may be true, and still it is just as true that developers indeed had an "original vision". I did not say such a vision is necessarily the best one out of all the possible visions the game can have, and neither has anyone else here. Nor have I said it needs to be "protected", since there is, after all, the original Morrowind. You accuse others od misunderstanding you, but I don't see you to have tried to understand the other side at all. Because, the *real* issue here is the obvious inferiority of the supposedly enhanced and improved visuals. They are not that. They are inferior to the original. And we are simply pointing it out. No doubt there are many who will enjoy it, which still won't change the fact how "RTX ON" makes the game look like complete shit.
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