Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[octavius]

And even though nearly every other feature of the mod has an option to disable it, he refuses to make one for that. So that means players have to delete his passive aggressive autism out by hand before installing. The dude even called it "kill player for lulz" in the script. Which would be funny if it weren't stupid, annoying and mandatory.

That reminds me of that modder Arthmoor who made a mod that opened up the cites in Oblivion but also added weird ugly oblivion gates in all the cities for fast travel. He would not remove the gates and screamed bloody murder when someone edited his mod.

I remember Arthmoor. He seemed like a level headed guy. So he too turned into a drama modder?

 

[Curious_Tongue]

And even though nearly every other feature of the mod has an option to disable it, he refuses to make one for that. So that means players have to delete his passive aggressive autism out by hand before installing. The dude even called it "kill player for lulz" in the script. Which would be funny if it weren't stupid, annoying and mandatory.

That reminds me of that modder Arthmoor who made a mod that opened up the cites in Oblivion but also added weird ugly oblivion gates in all the cities for fast travel. He would not remove the gates and screamed bloody murder when someone edited his mod.

I remember Arthmoor. He seemed like a level headed guy. So he too turned into a drama modder?

Sorry, it was Skyrim, not Oblivion

What is Gategate?

There's a popular mod for Skyrim called Open Cities that is made by a modder called Arthmoor. Open Cities gets rid of the loading screen between the game world and each of the major cities by transferring the cities to the main game world, allowing for a seamless transition between city and wilderness. Towards the end of June, Arthmoor released an updated version of Open Cities that added standing Oblivion gates to each of the major cities. These gates stand out because they're large and are placed in the middle of each city. They also look like shit and have terrible textures. They don't even make sense from a lore perspective.

A lot of people didn't like this and wanted Arthmoor to remove the gates or at least make them optional but he refused, saying he wouldn't compromise his "artistic vision". This led to lots of arguing and bitching between people who didn't want the gates forced upon them (everyone), and a group of "veteran modders" (including Arthmoor) and their associated entourage of supporters. These supporters very often stated how thankful we should be that these talented demi-gods, with their vast, arcane knowledge on modding, would even bless us with an ounce of their talent, and without them the entire community around these games would fall apart and die because literally nobody else can do what they do (no, really, people were actually saying this).

Goon Upmarket Mango took Arthmoor's mod, removed the Oblivion gates, and put it up for download on the Steam Workshop with full credit and praise to Arthmoor.

Arthmoor flipped the fuck out.

He railed against what he called a "stolen mod" and called Upmarket Mango a thief and a liar who was in on a conspiracy to drive him away from modding and Destroy Modding Forever. He also called Something Awful a warez site and a den of pirates and thieves. He went on to caused a lot of noise on the Bethesda forums, and after a few days Upmarket Mango's version was banned from the Workshop.

After that, goon Ardeus released a patch for Open Cities that removed the Oblivion gates. This patch required Arthmoor's Open Cities and in fact wouldn't even do anything without it. Additionally, the patch used absolutely no resources from Open Cities. It is a completely independent, third-party mod. Everybody is happy, right? Not quite.

Arthmoor went on the offensive, saying our (modding) days were over, that he's going to sue Something Awful, and that we better watch ourselves because THE GUILD will be coming after us. There was lots and lots and lots of internet-lawyering to be had and eventually both Ardeus and Arthmoor got in contact with Peter Hines, a community manager for fucking vice president of Bethesda, who ended up siding with Ardeus on the issue. Arthmoor was obviously not happy with this and it seemed like he was going to implode at any moment. On the Bethesda forums (and other places) he was going on and on about what a dangerous precedent Bethesda had set by siding with Ardeus and how we damned goons ruined the community. He painted a dangerous world (using lots of sensationalist language) where mod pirates delivered precise and tactical strikes against people using virus-ladden mod bombs, and the esteemed modding community would be gripped in a cold war where both sides stockpiled these virus-mod-bombs until eventually it all blew up and we'd all die or something.

Arthmoor didn't implode like we'd all though he would and eventually things calmed down and Arthmoor even "authorized" an Official Gate Removal Patch to be made by one of his supporters with the warning that he will not be supporting it and that people should only use this authorized patch because other, unauthorized patches are in fact likely to break your game.

Throughout the whole episode, Arthmoor often stated that his Oblivion gates were in fact lore-friendly, adding that Bethesda only programmed, modeled, and animated the gates crumbling into pieces after being closed because... I don't know, who cares? Arthmoor's word is law and even Bethesda is subject to it. He even wrote an incredibly spergy rant about how Bethesda is wrong about their own game:

Arthmoor posted:

Why are there dead Oblivion gates in the cities now?

While the gates in TES4 were shown to collapse into their debris piles, the only known reason for why the physical parts vanished is because that's just how the animation was done. All gates used the same resource file so they all collapse the same way. Further, the gates that you as the player close down are done via removal of the sigil stone power source. So when those close, they're doing so under a controlled set of conditions and the physical portal withdraws as per whatever designed system the Daedra use for that.

When Martin pulls the Akatosh avatar bit at the end of TES4, whatever gates were standing open would have had their dimensional bridge abruptly severed, and I believe that would result in the physical manifestation remaining behind since it was NOT properly shut down. The end result of this should logically have been a series of gates still standing but with no portal. This was limited by how the scripting works to call their shutdown code though. All it did was instruct every gate to run the reverse animation. The code was also supposed to have caused all the debris everywhere to vanish as well but that doesn't happen, nobody reported it as a bug, and Bethesda didn't care enough to fix it.

So there ought to be various gates all over Tamriel that were left intact, including gates within cities. 200 years isn't long enough for solid stone to crumble into nothing. It is long enough for those gates which aren't being marginally maintained by those near them to become overgrown, cracked, damaged by weather, wars, etc. Could be up for debate as to weather the Nords would leave them sitting around like this or not, but there's nothing in the lore that says these couldn't simply have been left there as monuments to the Crisis.

Even here on Earth we build monuments to incredibly painful events in our history - like the WWII memorial at Pearl Harbor where they left the sunken ships in the harbor and turned it into a national monument. The statue representing the Battle of Iwo Jima. Whole museums dedicated to WWII history, and other wars fought as well. Battlefield memorials for the Civil War are everywhere. People even reenact these battles on a regular basis.

Arguments of it being feature creep don't fly either. No more so than a smelter in Riften where none exists, or gatesmen who open the gates for you if you're on horseback. These gates add a touch of uniqueness to the mod, and pay what I believe is an homage to TES4:Oblivion as one of the best games of its time. They are not active portals and nor are they eyesores. They're not even in your way.

Still not happy? Thomas Kaira has created a patch to remove the gates. Keep in mind that use of this patch is unsupported by me. Any problems arising from using it will be ignored. His is the only authorized patch, any others have been produced without permission and are likely to have game killing bugs in them. Any mention of an unauthorized version will be reported.


Oh, and uploading any other Open City mod, whether you made it yourself or not, will probably get you banned on the Nexus now. Hooray for hugboxes!

 

[Curious_Tongue]

 

[Curious_Tongue]

He also got some attention during the paid mods thing.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

The guy make a lot of good mods for Oblivion and Skyrim but reading gategate is always hilarious

 

[octavius]

So Arthmoor has become like Giskard the Mod Nazi. Who'd have thunk that?

 

[Late Bloomer]

Dagoth Ur has a problem with Argonians.

 

[NecroLord]

Dagoth Ur has a problem with Argonians.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Agreed. Moronwind has less numbers going up therefore worse rpg.

 

[The Dopamine Cleric]

Oblivion was peak Elder Scrolls.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

 

[The Dopamine Cleric]

 

[Kalon]

Well, speaking of decline, look at this:

courtesy of the nexus.

 

[MWaser]

Looks like a screenshot from a modern Unity uindie game.

 

[Dr1f7]

those clothes look p comfy tbh

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

 

[Cryomancer]

This thread ignores the incline which Morrowind brought. Like :

1. Way more ranged options. In Daggerfall, you can only use short and longbow. In Morrowind, crossbows, bows, throwing knives, throwing stars and so on
2. Polearms. Morrowind has spears, halberds and other types of weapons.
3. Conjuration. Many quests in daggerfall mages guild involve someone who lost control over conjured creatures. Yet, PC's can't conjure anything in daggerfall.
4. Each city is much more unique. Just compare Vivec city with Balmora. Vastly different.

Orcish,Harpy,Deadric,Medecine,swimming,climbing,critical strike,Backstab,Centaurian,streetwise,SprigganThaumaturgy,Nymph,Orcish,Dragonish,dodging, Giantish,etiquette,Impish

Most language related skills which have no use in Daggerfall. If you remove language skills from equation, morrowind has more skills than daggerfall.

Temple factions gone, Knightly orders gone.

Because they make no sense in Morrowind location.

Complaining that I can't follow a knightly order in Morrowind is as silly as complaining that I can't be a Telvanni member in Daggerfall.

Daggerfall 9 vampire Bloodlines-> 3 vampire bloodlines Morrowind

But each clan is more unique.

But I do agree that one of the apects which Morrowind declined is vampirism. Vampirism in Morrowind makes the game unplayable and is great in daggerfall.

Banks, ship, letters of credit, carriage,horse,Bracers,and other items.

The distances are much smaller in morrowind. No need for letter of credit, carriage and horses in morrowind.

You can go from one side of the game to another in a single jump :

you can no longer edit advantages and disadvantages.

You can, with signs. Sure, much more limited than daggerfall, but there are mods which allow you to expand your Birthsigns.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Way more ranged options. In Daggerfall, you can only use short and longbow. In Morrowind, crossbows, bows, throwing knives, throwing stars and so on

They're all point and click.

 

[likash]

Morrowind was the last good Bethesda game and masterpiece compared to Shitfield.

 

[Modron]

Morrowind was the last good Bethesda game and masterpiece compared to Shitfield.

Sure but it was still decline when compared to Daggerfall and contemporary games like Gothic. The Toddler hadn't assumed complete control of Bethesda so there were still some redeeming factors.

 

[Rincewind]

Morrowind was the last good Bethesda game and masterpiece compared to Shitfield.

Sure but it was still decline when compared to Daggerfall and contemporary games like Gothic. The Toddler hadn't assumed complete control of Bethesda so there were still some redeeming factors.

I'm gonna revisit (and complete) Morrowind one day, but I'm going through things (mostly) chronologically in my grand Play All The Classic Games project. So my play order will be this:

Arena > Daggerfall > Battlespire > Morrowind (> Oblivion > Skyrim, maybe; never played them, just Nehrim)

Hopefully, that will make it clear how they evolved (or devolved?) some of their ideas from game to game.

 

[likash]

Morrowind was the last good Bethesda game and masterpiece compared to Shitfield.

Sure but it was still decline when compared to Daggerfall and contemporary games like Gothic. The Toddler hadn't assumed complete control of Bethesda so there were still some redeeming factors.

The Toddler was a random game tester back then. He was never smart enough to code at a decent level but he was a ladder climber type of dude. That type that's is always with his tongue up his superior's ass hunting for the next promotion.
His biggest advantage is the fact that he looks like an harmless and honest midget(this fools a lot of casuals and stans) but in reality he is a greedy lying piece of shit.

 

[Cryomancer]

decline when compared to Daggerfall

Decline in some aspects(character creation, vampirism) and incline in others(conjuration, better questlines, weapon variety, better "setting")

 

[Butter]

It's a shame that they didn't keep Daggerfall's banking system in Morrowind. It felt ancillary to Daggerfall's dungeon-crawling gameplay, but would've been more appropriate given Morrowind's better balance between dungeons and city gameplay.

 

[skaraher]

Morrowind was the last good Bethesda game and masterpiece compared to Shitfield.

Sure but it was still decline when compared to Daggerfall and contemporary games like Gothic. The Toddler hadn't assumed complete control of Bethesda so there were still some redeeming factors.

The Toddler was a random game tester back. He was never smart enough to code at a decent level but he was a ladder climber type of dude. That type that's is always with his tongue up his superior's ass hunting for the next promotion.
His biggest advantage is the fact that he looks like an harmless and honest midget(this fools a lot of casuals and stans) but in reality he is a greedy lying piece of shit.

He did design on Morrowind and even wrote the Imperial Legion questline (which is not really good tbh)