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NWN Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition - Beamdog's final enhancement - now with new premium modules

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Hellion, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Zeriel Arcane

    Zeriel
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  2. mediocrepoet First disciple of Mediocrites Patron

    mediocrepoet
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  3. Fedora Master Arcane Patron Edgy

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  4. Zeriel Arcane

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    Decades ago bro, you missed your time.
     
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  5. rusty_shackleford Arcane

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    I'm sure they'll get around to the monsters by 2027
     
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  6. Bad Sector Arcane Patron

    Bad Sector
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    Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex
    The first thing that popped in my mind was the clash between the environments and the models, i didn't realize they didn't update the monsters :-P
     
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  7. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    A lot of effort for such an old game. Makes me wonder if Beamdog is building up to a soft "neverwinter nights 3" (they couldn't call it that, but if they have the right to make and/or publish premium modules, then maybe that's their final goal).
     
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  8. mediocrepoet First disciple of Mediocrites Patron

    mediocrepoet
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    Well, NWN has always looked like dog shit. That the NPCs and PC looks less dog shit than everything else is the least of the game's worries.
     
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  9. Zeriel Arcane

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    I actually find the environments have aged less poorly than the rest. The character models really were the sorest point. And there's a TON of newer monster models in for example Project Q, one of the biggest issues with heavily modded NWN was the old player models still looking so incredibly awful compared to new tilesets and monsters, and the weird parts system they used meant if modders wanted to improve them comprehensively they basically had to use robe-skinning (basically, replace the whole model with a robe armor model that looks like a high quality character in whatever clothes you want), but this had the drawback of basically removing the equipment visual systems, and there's very few robe models out there.

    I'm very much not a fan of Beamdog, but this is a decent upgrade. Fair play to the fact I haven't actually bothered to install and test it out (and probably never will since I hate the horrible positional sound engine Beamdog uses in EE, but that's a separate story) so I'm just speaking in a vacuum, but yeah.

    Overall I'm just surprised Beamdog is still working on this. I figured by now they had just dumped out what code they had and were going to move on. It certainly can't be making them much money to push out new models for a remake everyone who was going to get already got. Maybe they're trying to make sure their brand reputation isn't completely terrible for if they release an actually new game. But definitely that was the reason I was pessimistic about them ever doing comprehensive reworks because the financial incentives are against it, they got all their money initially.
     
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  10. almondblight Arcane

    almondblight
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    I hope they take away those weird neon-glows that are all over the damn game.

    Though the reason I eventually dropped it is because you don't actually do anything in combat. It barely felt like I was playing a game.
     
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  11. Zeriel Arcane

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    You don't do anything in BG1/2 either if you're not a spellcaster. It's just how those games were. Seems like a lot of people have gotten so used to either action/FPS style combat or the MMO model that if they're not pressing lots of buttons they feel bored. It reminds me of how DA 1 was received when it first came out by BG fans in that people didn't like the amount of MMO style buttons you had to press to be optimal even as a warrior... and now it's reversed.

    Admittedly the issue with NWN in that regard is party size. In BG you were micromanaging 6 characters, so you didn't want to have to do a lot on every character. In NWN you're only ever controlling 1 character, so it feels a lot more passive. There are mods to get around that, but I don't think they ever really gelled into something that felt right.
     
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  12. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    Luke Scull from Ossian is making his own NWN 3 called "The Blades of Netheril".
     
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  13. Gargaune Magister

    Gargaune
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    Those screencaps look nice, but the new models were all sorts of broken when I loaded up the Toolset last night. It might be because I'm running an older version of the EE, though, I'll have to try on the latest. I'm not sure distributing this HD pack as an internal override is the most versatile choice, but it is the most accessible.

    I didn't get to check, do NWN EE overrides support internal folders now? That would be very handy...

    Shit, you're right, does that mean it's time for n00d mods?

    Show Spoiler

    :bounce:


    Character models were the most important ticket by far. And even so, all those parts run up to 4GB, it's a nice effort.
     
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  14. almondblight Arcane

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    Well yeah, the BG games had pretty poor combat. And like you said, NWN makes it even worse by limiting it to a single controllable character.

    :hmmm:

    Have you seriously never played an RPG with decent combat? They even have a number of DnD games out there with decent combat.
     
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  15. Sabotin Scholar

    Sabotin
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    I feel bad, this must have taken a lot of effort for the hundreds of parts, but the results are questionable at best. The quality ranges from good to prosperous by itself, but the parts system is defenitely not meant to be used with high detail models. Things you overlooked before become glaringly obvious now. The eyes are stickers on the face, the pelvis part resembles a big diaper, helmets don't have a head in them, joints clip into eachother, etc. Ironically the best faces are the ugliest ones, where the normal maps and baked-in ambient occlusion make the wrinkles and folds look good even from a distance. The smoother and "prettier" heads however...

    Since there's good examples on the webpage, I'll attach what I consider a bad one, with unfavorable lighting:

    Show Spoiler

    [​IMG]


    P.S. Don't use this without the new lighting, it looks kinda broken. Not sure about compatibilty either, since I saw some .2da files in the override.
     
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  16. mediocrepoet First disciple of Mediocrites Patron

    mediocrepoet
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    Eh, it still looks better than vanilla NWN. Not that that's much of a bar to clear, it's more like a limbo challenge.
     
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  17. Zeriel Arcane

    Zeriel
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    Yeah to be fair, the weird pelvis/pants parts are kind of there in the original models too. It's just obscured by low detail. Not sure what hideous decision led to the parts system, but if you go and look at original pelvis parts, they all have that weird thong/diaper thing going on, it's just that people are used to it I guess.
     
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  18. Gargaune Magister

    Gargaune
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    Ok, I've tried it on a clean install on my laptop and... it's not perfect. Compare and contrast a custom armour I'd made for my hobby module:

    [​IMG]

    - Anatomy around the torso waist and pelvis doesn't match precisely. The new pelvis shape in general has this weird diaper look. I understand it's a bit of challenge with the different racial morphs and how the pelvis was shaped in the original, not very anatomical, but it feels like there's some rough edges that could be smoothed out there. And it's distinctly more visible on the female models.

    - Some of the new diffuse/tint maps seem to have a different shade, see the biceps and the right pauldron for the clearest examples. It looks like Beamdog might've made the same mistake Obsidian did with NWN2 and not used the same grey value for the base.

    - Some of the tint maps are also incomplete. Pay close attention and you can see that the belt on the left image is black, whereas on the right it's the same colour as the "surcoat". You also won't see it in this image but I did check and the original surcoat has a central stripe that can be tinted distinctly as Cloth 1, whereas in the new version this is missing and absorbed by the Leather 2 setting. There's bound to be more of these oversights kicking about.

    - In the original game, there are four different models for the lower part of the surcoat, Robes 5-8, whereas the new HD version has only two versions listed twice each. You can't see it in this angle, but the chainmail visible in the left image is replaced by cloth in the new one and the only other option is another cloth setting.

    - Some proportions for the leg parts feel a tad exaggerated.

    - Using the latest version of NWN EE there were no more problems with broken models in the Toolset, except for the Robe 2 version (the clerical one) which is still bugged and doesn't conform to the skeleton in the viewport.

    I agree, I'll give 'em props for effort, but I think the old assets have a more "polished" look. I feel the issues could be patched, but I somehow suspect it's not a high priority.


    P.S. Oh, in case any of you decide to play with the HD pack, particularly the OC, and you notice a lot of the NPCs are still using the old art - that's because a lot of those NPCs had custom preset appearances set, rather than using the inventory system.
     
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  19. mediocrepoet First disciple of Mediocrites Patron

    mediocrepoet
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    This art discussion for NWN is interesting to me in how different people view different games. I've never zoomed that close into NWN and even if I had, some of the things picked out are small enough to be nearly imperceptible, but I can appreciate that for people with more of an eye for visual detail those small details can be offputting.
     
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  20. Gargaune Magister

    Gargaune
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    Eh, in my case I might be overly anal after spending so much time trying to make nice-looking armours for my module, but some of these things will be apparent during play, particularly colour mismatches. And then the HD pack becomes more of a tradeoff than a definite upgrade, which is a shame with all the work that went into it.
     
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  21. mediocrepoet First disciple of Mediocrites Patron

    mediocrepoet
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    I'm so artistically impaired, it's a miracle I can still see colour and don't just interact with the world via Matrix code scrolling down. I seriously doubt I'd notice, I barely see it when you've zoomed in and pointed it out. ;)
     
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  22. Bad Sector Arcane Patron

    Bad Sector
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    FWIW these are things that existed in the original game too. Actually pretty much any game that uses part-based models (e.g. Morrowind) has the same issues and are very obvious, especially up-close. If anything from your screenshot i'd say that the seams are less visible than the original ultra-low-poly models and most likely wont be very visible when not having the camera too up close (do people play like that? IMO NWN1 isn't that great to play with an up close camera).
     
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  23. Gargaune Magister

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    Oh, come on, Beamdog! I'm trying to be in your corner here, but you gotta throw me a bone every once in a while... The tint schemas are scrambled! I had another gander at the HD assets and, well, see for yourselves:

    [​IMG]

    Left's the original, centre is what the exact same part/tint configuration looks like with the HD pack, and right is as close as I could get it with swapping some things around, meaning colours and the shoes. I've pasted the full item panels so you can see the colour changes in the inventory thumbnails too. And this isn't a singular example - some parts have scrambled tints, others match, but even the ones that do can have issues with the aforementioned hue mismatch.

    Listen, the new assets are pretty nice, but what's the point if the final items aren't gonna look like their intended designs? Oh, but the one part that should have been changed, namely BioWare's artists mixing up chainmail and scalemail patterns, that's still the same.
     
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  24. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Eh, this model stuff ain't such of a much when Gunnar's pack exists for base nwn.
     
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  25. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    So its 25 cents here in niggertina and i own the diamond edition already, worth the price?
     
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