New Mass Effect interview: Cap'n Shepard = Jack Bauer

[Ebondark]

Ebon, it was a parody. If it makes you feel better, think of it as skewering Casey's puerile PR rather than the game itself; after all, Bio has done itself no service by employing such a hyperbolic huckster.

As for turn-based stuff...first you said turn-based games are dead, and someone called you on that; then you excepted turn-based real-time strategy games, and someone called you on that; then you said that JRPGs don't count as turn-based RPGs, which I won't even bother calling you on. (Oblivion isn't an RPG, either - nor, probably, is Mass Effect. As far as the market is concerned, tho, most "RPGs" are turn-based.)

Actually this is the General RPG discussion forum so I assumed that what I stated would be taken as a discussion on RPG games.

Further if you read my original full statement:

Turn based games are dead. Simple as that. Release a turn based RPG and it will flop. That's the reality. You can't do it.

That whole ending part was completely ingored so I added it to the start.

EDIT: And what modern turnbased RPG can you think of that has been released by a major label? Sure their are indie titles but I can't think of any (at least any that weren't a flop).

 

[Vault Dweller]

Every bit of my bashing of Age of Decadence bothered the shit out of you and probably caused you to go 'Man that's just not fair what the hell does this guy know'.

No, to be quite honest, it caused us to think that you are stupid. If you want to criticize AoD, be my guest. It's the Codex. The game has been criticized so many times, I've lost count, and frankly, I'm perfectly ok with criticism.

As for this ME business, the criticism is JUSTIFIED - a new word for you. You may disagree with our reasons, but you can't pretend that these reasons are made up.

Why because your reasons are the correct one. Because everyone needs to march bootstep with your vision?

You didn't understand. You don't have to agree with someone's reasons to accept them as an alternative and valid point of view.

Becuase in essence if it's not YOUR rpg it's crap?

Did I say that?

 

[MacBone]

Becuase in essence if it's not YOUR rpg it's crap? Oh fuck thanks for clearing that one up oh great creative genius. I'll be sure to hop aboard the VD knows how games should be made train.

You must have missed all the hoopla over Gothic 3.

 

[Kingston]

Speaking of photoshop...

 

[Volourn]

"A) I'm not obssessed with it,"

Yes, you are. Do a search, and count how many ME threads yopu have have started and how many total posts you have wasted on it.

" and B) I didn't compare Shepard to Bauer, Casey did."

I never said you did it initially; but you have run with the idea.

Moron.



"As far as the market is concerned, tho, most "RPGs" are turn-based.)"

Don't be retarded.


"Oblivion isn't an RPG, either - nor, probably, is Mass Effect"

They're both Action RPGs. Just like G3; the game that VD sucks its dick.

 

[Hazelnut]

Every bit of my bashing of Age of Decadence bothered the shit out of you and probably caused you to go 'Man that's just not fair what the hell does this guy know'.

No, to be quite honest, it caused us to think that you are stupid. If you want to criticize AoD, be my guest. It's the Codex. The game has been criticized so many times, I've lost count, and frankly, I'm perfectly ok with criticism.

As for this ME business, the criticism is JUSTIFIED - a new word for you. You may disagree with our reasons, but you can't pretend that these reasons are made up.

Why because your reasons are the correct one. Because everyone needs to march bootstep with your vision?

Becuase in essence if it's not YOUR rpg it's crap? Oh fuck thanks for clearing that one up oh great creative genius. I'll be sure to hop aboard the VD knows how games should be made train.

Yeah, don't fuckin' listen to em Ebondark - there's no point because there's no way they could even have a point, right?

 

[MacBone]

And what modern turnbased RPG can you think of that has been released by a major label? Sure their are indie titles but I can't think of any (at least any that weren't a flop).

NWN and NWN2 tanked, for sure. That franchise's sales figures have been simply horrid.

 

[Ebondark]

Every bit of my bashing of Age of Decadence bothered the shit out of you and probably caused you to go 'Man that's just not fair what the hell does this guy know'.

No, to be quite honest, it caused us to think that you are stupid. If you want to criticize AoD, be my guest. It's the Codex. The game has been criticized so many times, I've lost count, and frankly, I'm perfectly ok with criticism.

As for this ME business, the criticism is JUSTIFIED - a new word for you. You may disagree with our reasons, but you can't pretend that these reasons are made up.

Why because your reasons are the correct one. Because everyone needs to march bootstep with your vision?

You didn't understand. You don't have to agree with someone's reasons to accept them as an alternative and valid point of view.

Becuase in essence if it's not YOUR rpg it's crap?

Did I say that?

That's just it you didn't present your reasonings for disagreeing you simply bashed the fuck out of their game. The parady wasn't the bad part it was the level of bashing you took it too.

It was overdone and rude as if what Bioware is doing is utter and complete crap and they should know better. You sat on your high horse and rendered judgement. When I did the same to your game you were very very upset.

NOTE: Here's the funny little thing, that I alluded to, I really and genuinely hope your little game turns out great. I really really do. Why? Becuase I love to see game developers succeed. I just hope you take a lesson out and learn that your style of bashing Bio (or any developer) to this extent is not cool. A little Parody is ok but this was taken way too far.

 

[MacBone]

A little Parody is ok but this was taken way too far.

You're right, Ebondark. This criticism was entirely too EXTREME!

 

[Ebondark]

And what modern turnbased RPG can you think of that has been released by a major label? Sure their are indie titles but I can't think of any (at least any that weren't a flop).

NWN and NWN2 tanked, for sure. That franchise's sales figures have been simply horrid.

NWN and NWN2 didn't flop because they did their absolute best to make it not play like a turn based game. They completely covered it up so you can't even catch those original roots.

Technically you could argue that JE, KotOR and KotOR II are Turn-Based though they did their best to remove any amount of 'turn' from the players perspective though the game engine treats it as such.

You won't see ME or KotOR3 having turns in them. If they could go back they'ld rip the turns out of all those games.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Turn based games are dead. Simple as that. Release a turn based RPG and it will flop. That's the reality. You can't do it.

That whole ending part was completely ingored so I added it to the start.

EDIT: And what modern turnbased RPG can you think of that has been released by a major label? Sure their are indie titles but I can't think of any (at least any that weren't a flop).

ToEE did rather well, and it was the best selling game for Atari for awhile.

That's just it you didn't present your reasonings for disagreeing you simply bashed the fuck out of their game. The parady wasn't the bad part it was the level of bashing you took it too.

Reread the interview and this thread.

When I did the same to your game you were very very upset.

One last (hopefully) time, I wasn't upset. At all.

 

[Ebondark]

Yeah, don't fuckin' listen to em Ebondark - there's no point because there's no way they could even have a point, right?

And what is the point?

That ME sucks? That Bioware can't build an RPG?

That their character concepts are horrible?

That anything that they are attempting to do with the game is a joke?

That their PR machine used a couple of terms that didn't sit well with him?

That everyone should build a game like what? What is it exactly that Bioware should build?

What is it that every developer out there should do?

Should every RPG be:

1) Turn-Based
2) Sand-boxed style
3) Text based conversations

And what else?

 

[Volourn]

"Technically you could argue that JE

JE is not turnbased. not even close. one could argue that the KOTORs are akin to turn abse; but JE is not even close to being one.


"ToEE did rather well"

No, it didn't. Stop the bullshit. Fuck, are you retarded. It did no better than POR2, most likely. Idiot. It didn't even warrant an expansion. L0LLERZ!

 

[Ebondark]

ToEE did rather well, and it was the best selling game for Atari for awhile.

ToEE tanked and Atari is not in the best financial situation.

 

[Kraszu]

Ebondark you start whit hypocrite, VD is criticize on where crpg are going and he makes hes own that is based on concept that he believes should be behind them. Haw is that Hypocrisy? Maybe page in you dictionary flipped and you read description of some other world?

You may not agree but your logic is a mess for me now, on hand you say that f2 is your favorite game, on other you don't want new game like that. Yes it doesn't make sense at all, your example about programing is plain bad some things are better because they perform task faster or crush less often whit books, games it doesn't work that way, Bach isn't worse the Britney just because he didn't make as much money and is not played in tv as much today. People that listen to Bach aren't people that live in the past, but people who listen to what they like most despite trend of today. If somebody uses worse slower program he lives in past and does not take benefit of progress.

 

[Hazelnut]

Every bit of my bashing of Age of Decadence bothered the shit out of you and probably caused you to go 'Man that's just not fair what the hell does this guy know'.

No, to be quite honest, it caused us to think that you are stupid. If you want to criticize AoD, be my guest. It's the Codex. The game has been criticized so many times, I've lost count, and frankly, I'm perfectly ok with criticism.

As for this ME business, the criticism is JUSTIFIED - a new word for you. You may disagree with our reasons, but you can't pretend that these reasons are made up.

Why because your reasons are the correct one. Because everyone needs to march bootstep with your vision?

Becuase in essence if it's not YOUR rpg it's crap? Oh fuck thanks for clearing that one up oh great creative genius. I'll be sure to hop aboard the VD knows how games should be made train.

Yeah, don't fuckin' listen to em Ebondark - there's no point because there's no way they could even have a point, right?

Does the bolding help you understand what I was getting at Volly?

 

[suibhne]

EDIT: And what modern turnbased RPG can you think of that has been released by a major label? Sure their are indie titles but I can't think of any (at least any that weren't a flop).

Hmm, "modern"...well. Definitely ToEE. Outside of that, most mass-market (console) RPGs are phase-based, which means the gaming world calls them "turn-based". And as I said above, JRPGs are RPGs from any sort of market perspective.

If, otoh, you simply meant "There haven't been any major-label turn-based RPGs that *I* consider to be RPGs (oh, and btw I'm open-minded and the Codex is full of close-minded elitists)"...well, I guess I misunderstood you.

I'm making this point about JRPGs not because I like them (tho I actually do, on very rare occasions), but because I'm repeatedly baffled by people who insist that TB games are ded DED DED. If you focus on only strategy titles and RPG titles, and consider the console as well as PC markets, most games are turn-based (or phase-based); this notion that TB is somehow antiquated (or "dying", as you said) is so flatly ridiculous that I don't understand how it's become gospel in American gaming journalism.

 

[Ebondark]

"Technically you could argue that JE

JE is not turnbased. not even close. one could argue that the KOTORs are akin to turn abse; but JE is not even close to being one.

You don't see it as such but unless they ripped out all the legacy code in there and completely rewrote the combat system it was simply an upgraded version of the same engine that powered KotOR just as KotOR used an upgraded engine from NWN.

Now I could be wrong but I thought that was the explanation of the engines on the Bioware forums.

I understood it as taking a queueing system for the attacks where you could only fire off so many attacks based off your attack speed attribute for a style in given time frame 'turn'.

It's done to the point that you don't see it but that's what I took it as (i.e. they took the queueing sytem from KotOR ripped it out and implimented one behind the scene that didn't allow for the computer to hold the attacks in queue).

Not going to state that as fact though that's all what I took from the discussion boards.

 

[suibhne]

ToEE tanked

Volly's usually our Lone Gunman arguing this POV in contempt of all reality. Good to see he'll have company. :D

Btw using the same engine doesn't necessitate using the same combat system, Ebon. E.g. The Witcher will be 100% RT even tho it uses the (heavily revamped) NWN engine.

 

[Ebondark]

EDIT: And what modern turnbased RPG can you think of that has been released by a major label? Sure their are indie titles but I can't think of any (at least any that weren't a flop).

Hmm, "modern"...well. Definitely ToEE. Outside of that, most mass-market (console) RPGs are phase-based, which means the gaming world calls them "turn-based". And as I said above, JRPGs are RPGs from any sort of market perspective.

ToEE tanked. Horribly.

 

[Kraszu]

ToEE did rather well, and it was the best selling game for Atari for awhile.

ToEE tanked and Atari is not in the best financial situation.

No Troika go out of business after Vampire the mascaraed bloodlines (tp action combat whit popular engine receipt for success, no?) TOEE didn't cost much to make and turn profit from what I know, and it wasn't last Troika game for sure. Space Rangers did well enough and we have 3rd game like it in production Battle Lord that will have more emphasis on combat, yes tb one.

 

[Vault Dweller]

ToEE did rather well, and it was the best selling game for Atari for awhile.

ToEE tanked and Atari is not in the best financial situation.

Really?
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4545

"Atari has released their 10-K report for their fiscal year that ended in March 2004. Interestingly enough, Temple of Elemental Evil was their numero uno PC CRPG during that year. The two expansion packs to Neverwinter Nights fell somewhat below that. The only strictly PC platform game to beat out ToEE in terms of sales was UT2004. It was the numero tres seller of all Atari's PC releases total."

 

[Kingston]

R00fles!

 

[suibhne]

ToEE tanked

Volly's usually our Lone Gunman arguing this POV in contempt of all reality. Good to see he'll have company. :D

ToEE tanked. Horribly.

I bow to your superior argumentation.

 

[Volourn]

"You don't see it as such but unless they ripped out all the legacy code in there and completely rewrote the combat system it was simply an upgraded version of the same engine that powered KotOR just as KotOR used an upgraded engine from NWN."

JE is RT. It's more than simply an 'upgraded' version of KOTOR's version of the Aurora. The engine is fully 100% RT. For example, there is no concept of rounds.


"Volly's usually our Lone Gunman arguing this POV in contempt of all reality."

It did not do well. Like POR2, it had a solid first month, and then afterwrads just nosedived.


LOL VD continually comapres TOEE to twoe xpansions. If anything, that proves how much TOEE it tanked.

And, being Atari's #1 seller doesn't prove anything because Atari has been in such poor financial shape.

R00fles!