Squeenix NieR: Automata from Yoko Taro and Platinum Games

[HeatEXTEND]

I liked it when the friendly robot town

 

[Silva]

Apparently a twitter insider is saying Nier Automata 2 is in development.

Anyone heard about this?

Anyway, Tokyo Game Show starts tomorrow so we should have more news.

 

[Jasede]

Well, when they gave Taro money for Automata I already didn't believe it. The man bankrupts every company he works with! I love this man a lot.
I am very happy he experienced some success and I hope it will not make him soulless.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

I am very happy he experienced some success and I hope it will not make him soulless.

You know it will.

 

[Silva]

If it's really a direct follow-up to Automata, I wish they depicted that mission where A2 and Anemone raided some central server of the machines or something. Maybe have us as Anemone in the follow up days to the mission and culminate with the said assault just like the tower at the end of N:A.

 

[Dayyālu]

You know it will.

In before it's a Drakengard reboot

Child conscripts massacre missions included

You wanted to feel good, right

right

(If there's one thing that I hope Taro will go for, it's not being predictable. As much as one can feel about Automata being narratively weaker than Nier, he didn't play the same theme twice - Nier is Good People doing Horrible Things for Good Reasons, Drak3 is Horrible People Doing Good Things for Horrible Reasons, and Automata is completely unrelated to both, even the "reveal" that some Robots were good all along is revealed to be not akin the Shades in Original Nier but mimicry and attempt to diversify (so, essentially fake). We'll see if the suits will force them to do a cookie-cutter sequel or we get some random insanity just because)

 

[Jasede]

I believe in this man. If the suits force anything, he'll be subversive.

 

[yellowcake]

Taro says he doesn't want to make the same game twice but in a way he makes an iteration of the same game every time. In an interview he says he likes pinball tables. His games are pinball tables - a few maps revisited many times for an iteration of a story or game mechanic. Repetition is baked in. Automata makes the junk heap central concept and grows from there. There's the desert with non-functional teleports etc. Main hub aesthetic - ruined high rises and blocks - is taken from Cathedral City Drak3.

I love this guy. He is truly independent auteur game designer. Deep system mechanics are not his forte though so he is not Leonardo. More like some melancholic modernist guy. Which artist is he?

 

[Jasede]

I think he's more like Kierkegaard, always a little close to the edge of suicide...
I love him so much; I think he must be as depressed as I am to see such beauty and love in desolation. This man can see the joy in grief, and he can see that which we call bittersweet.

Of course he's clumsy in his own way, but I like it that way.

Frankly, I just love those auteur directors - Swery, Kojima (which I do not like), Miyazaki, Kamiya, Suda - and Taro. Love or hate their games, they always feel like *their* games and nobody else's.

 

[lightbane]

In before it's a Drakengard reboot

Child conscripts massacre missions included

He could do that with a prequel for the Nier 1 game quite easily: The background excerpts you get after you read "the files" give material for like 2 games, complete with child-soldiers, death and misery.

 

[Jinn]

He could do that with a prequel for the Nier 1 game quite easily: The background excerpts you get after you read "the files" give material for like 2 games, complete with child-soldiers, death and misery.

This would be an amazing game.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

I still say they'll get his soul in the end. The Disney of the East corrupts all it touches. Intoners don't have shit on that hulking abomination.

 

[Tigranes]

Alright, so I've finished the first playthrough, my virgin Yoko Taro. I understand at least two more playthroughs remain.

I'm not super sure what to think. I mostly enjoyed it, and for me the really great moments were the few offbeat touches like the heartwarming cutesy design of the little walking peasant robots. Stuff like first walking into the amusement park or 'Jean-Paul' was great, and along with the music, basically felt like "GITS influenced but from a guy with a very different aesthetic", which is fine. The actual story isn't much to speak of and seems mostly derivative fluff, but there's a lot of charm in how it's all done.

Otherwise, though, hrm. The game itself is a mediocre 'ticks the boxes' ARPG - there's not much to explore, there's not much upgrading or character building to be done, the sidequests can sometimes have that nice charm but mechanically is all humdrum and sometimes MMOy droll. I don't know if I prefer it much over a more linear solution. The combat I am sure has more layers of the onion I couldn't peel because I'm an action game noob and started on Normal for now, but the way dodging is designed seems to encourage dodging like a maniac the entire game interspersed with slicing enemies up into the air. I felt like I never really had to time what I was doing, as I could dodge away at almost any given time. I'm very open to being told that I'm playing degenerately and I should put it on Hard and start using X and Y moves, though.

 

[Sentinel]

You haven't really finished any playthrough. The "endings" are complete misnomers. Think of them as chapters instead.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Alright, so I've finished the first playthrough, my virgin Yoko Taro. I understand at least two more playthroughs remain.

NieR: Automata can be divided into three main sections, and you've completed the first one by reaching Ending A. Continuing the game with 9S as the playable character will see you retrace the same ground to reach Ending B for the conclusion of the second of the main sections, and you will then proceed past Endings A/B for the third main section to reach Endings C/D/E (all nearly at once).

 

[Tigranes]

Yes, I get that. The plan is to keep playing with the 9S bits and so on. I can't imagine the basic design principles that I discussed above changing hugely, though.

It's kind of... the game is charming and there are some stylish sequences, but the bread and butter gameplay is kind of rote, so I'm also wondering if there are more cool things I can do with the swords to git gud and spice it up. I understand the basics about launching people into the air, attacking with your pod, situational plugin chips and mixing light/heavy attacks. Am I supposed to chain more stuff to stay in the air indefinitely, or is a "jump->light attacks->heavy down slam" basically the limit?

 

[Optimist]

Yes, I get that. The plan is to keep playing with the 9S bits and so on. I can't imagine the basic design principles that I discussed above changing hugely, though.

It's kind of... the game is charming and there are some stylish sequences, but the bread and butter gameplay is kind of rote, so I'm also wondering if there are more cool things I can do with the swords to git gud and spice it up. I understand the basics about launching people into the air, attacking with your pod, situational plugin chips and mixing light/heavy attacks. Am I supposed to chain more stuff to stay in the air indefinitely, or is a "jump->light attacks->heavy down slam" basically the limit?

9S plays a bit differently; you'll get a lot of mileage out of the hacking minigame, and while you can build yourself up to be a monster with a spear, you are generally encouraged to hang back a bit. But yeah, combat system itself is not especially complex.

 

[Tigranes]

OK, so I got to Ending C.

If we treat A-B-C as a single playthrough, and other stuff as optional/postgame, then I still have to say that I have mixed feelings.

The game is undeniably stylish with some really nice cutscenes and moments - its characterisation of Pascal, 2B, etc. are nice and it does manage to focus largely on the themes that matter within the cliche robot context, because most of it is spent on 'human' moments rather than dumb lore. Animu-2deep4u "WHAT IS MAN? WHAT IS LIFE?" is kept to a minimum. Music and art generally top notch on atmosphere too.

That said, the game wastes your time a lot for no good reason. Why did I have to play the first half of the game twice, with very little variation? C has so much good stuff in it, but you need to play the weaker half of the game twice? Why? You could easily have put the 9S material in Route A. The gameplay is decent but it's not strong to last dozens and dozens of repetitive hours fighting the same 5 robot trash mobs over and over again. I think C is really worth getting to and going through, but the game really works hard to encourage you to drop it. It didn't need all the pseudo-RPG sidequesting, either. Cut 1/3 of the trash mobs and running around and fluff, and it would be far better for it.

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

I'm very open to being told that I'm playing degenerately and I should put it on Hard and start using X and Y moves, though.

I played it on hard, and I wouldn't recommend it. It ups the stats of enemies, which leads you to do the same on your side with consumables. Hard means the enemy does 50% more damage, so you need to use the consumables that reduces 50% of melee or ranged damage, as needed. There's not much fun to be had here, unless you like menus.

I found the combat system very fun, although it's true that there are degenerate strategies. But those are intentional - it's an action game meant for jrpg fans, many of whom aren't proficient in action games. So they can go up close and try to play it in a flashy way, or fall back to shooting from afar with the pods if the fight gets too difficult. It's been a while since I played, but as far as I recall bumping enemies in the air isn't fool proof, as you can still get hit and fall, which is a loss on harder difficulties.
The problem with the combat system is actually the leveling system, where you get quests with enemies you can't kill, or you out level the enemies so hard that fighting them is pointless. The chip build is also dwarfed by the leveling system, as the chip numbers aren't big enough to compensate for the level difference between you and the enemy. It's quite disappointing when you find the colosseum, and it's rendered completely pointless, because fights that should have been a fun challenge aren't much more than a level check.

It didn't need all the pseudo-RPG sidequesting, either. Cut 1/3 of the trash mobs and running around and fluff, and it would be far better for it.

Yeah, the game could have definitely been shorter, and B route is the biggest issue. The side quests are far from fluff though, they are essential to building the world and the characters. Without them many parts of the game would feel lifeless. Making them compulsory isn't better either, because than players like you would get pissed, and rightfully so. They should have been trimmed down, and others could have been better designed, especially those fetch quests.

 

[yellowcake]

Yeah, the game could have definitely been shorter

After Nier: Automata (which was my first jap/controller experience in life) I did all Yoko Taro games in reverse order. I still have last boss to do in Drak3 and got stuck in first Drakengard and probably won't finish it but frankly I wouldn't have any of his games any other way than they are.

 

[hexer]

It's kind of... the game is charming and there are some stylish sequences, but the bread and butter gameplay is kind of rote, so I'm also wondering if there are more cool things I can do with the swords to git gud and spice it up. I understand the basics about launching people into the air, attacking with your pod, situational plugin chips and mixing light/heavy attacks. Am I supposed to chain more stuff to stay in the air indefinitely, or is a "jump->light attacks->heavy down slam" basically the limit?

Regarding the combat system.. it's bigger than it seems but most of it optional.
There are stealth attacks and remote control of enemies, combos, time slowing chips, up to 3 pods at the same time, different weapon combinations, DLC with 1-hour long battles, etc.
You can see some of the combos here


I think most people don't explore these combat systems because the game doesn't force them.
Once you get the basics down, the normal difficulty is a walk in the park.
Hard difficulty on the other hand requires preparation while very hard is just insanity.
P.S. I actually watched one streamer finish the game on very hard. It took him about 3 months. He played the starting level for 5 and half hours

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

The combat in NA is is quite in-depth and complex. It's just not turorialized and you don't need to engage with it at any meaningful level unless you want to tackle the harder optional content.

 

[HoboForEternity]

It's kind of... the game is charming and there are some stylish sequences, but the bread and butter gameplay is kind of rote, so I'm also wondering if there are more cool things I can do with the swords to git gud and spice it up. I understand the basics about launching people into the air, attacking with your pod, situational plugin chips and mixing light/heavy attacks. Am I supposed to chain more stuff to stay in the air indefinitely, or is a "jump->light attacks->heavy down slam" basically the limit?

Regarding the combat system.. it's bigger than it seems but most of it optional.
There are stealth attacks and remote control of enemies, combos, time slowing chips, up to 3 pods at the same time, different weapon combinations, DLC with 1-hour long battles, etc.
You can see some of the combos here


I think most people don't explore these combat systems because the game doesn't force them.
Once you get the basics down, the normal difficulty is a walk in the park.
Hard difficulty on the other hand requires preparation while very hard is just insanity.
P.S. I actually watched one streamer finish the game on very hard. It took him about 3 months. He played the starting level for 5 and half hours

that is actually pretty crazy.

 

[hexer]

I know! The problem is when you play on very hard a single hit means you're dead.

Interesting thing is he found a couple of game breaking bugs on that difficulty so we started wondering if Platinum Games even playtested the very hard difficulty?


I think he had most trouble beating Hegel, it took him about 3 weeks just to get past that part.
After beating the game, he said it was the hardest game he ever played.
Definitely only a handful of people beat it that way playing it for the first time

 

[Correct_Carlo]

The only stuff that's difficult on very hard are the introductory flying sequences. It's bullet hell where one hit starts you over, and the intro sequences for routes A and B are really long and have a bunch of unskippable cut scenes. Once you get past them, the game's not terribly difficult.

I beat route B on very hard, but couldn't do route A. I could probably do it now that I know the game mechanics, but that Rout A intro boss is basically the first enemy you fight, and you have to fly through like 7 minutes of fluff to get to him.