Incline Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection coming to PS4/Steam/Switch/XB1

[Multidirectional]

In highest non unlockable difficulty o DMCV you can do a lot of fights just randomly mashing buttons

I'm still kindda circling around DMC5. Watched a few videos and still not sure about the difficulty mechanics. My assumption is this - simply going through it is piss easy but the real point of the game is pulling off these elaborate moves and raking up points, which is where the real difficulty comes from. Am I close?

Depending on the character. With faggiest character, V, you literally can get an SSS rating by just spamming buttons. Like I said, first two difficulties (starting from the highest available initially) are mostly piss easy, there's only one boss at the very end that puts up a real fight. And it's a great fight too. But what happens in second unlockable difficulty is mobs get ton of HP and get their own Devil Trigger, which makes them do ton of damage. And maybe I could've been arsed to go through it if I was allowed to play the main character in all missions, but you don't even get the fucker until halfway through the game. It's still a pretty damn good game though, despite my annoyances with it. It's just that I would pick Sekiro over it any time and I don't give a fuck how "poorly designed" it is. It just clicks with me way more.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

From my understanding, DMC is all about juggling demons for dat S-S-Smoking rating, while NG is all about surviving at all costs.

In a nutshell, yeah sorta...
DMC is about being an ostentatious show-off, while NG is about being a cold disciplined killer

As such the mastery of DMC's combat is about trying to constantly pull off the riskiest and most demanding moves in order to perform the most impressive shit the gameplay allows for (all without taking damage)

Ninja Gaiden however wants to you kill the highest number of enemies possible in shortest amount of time, with the least injuries and in the most brutal fashion possible (without resorting to "cheap tricks")


It's a bit ironic though...
Because DMC combat is very tuned to 1-on-1 fights as the moves are mostly about influencing an enemy's position and state, while most NG moves focus on damaging multiple oponents at once
This is the reason why when it comes to bosses DMC as always been far better than NG, but in group fights NG is more hectic than DMC
Yet despite this DMC throws more enemies at the player than NG does (not counting the 360's version of NG2, and even then it falls short compared to DMC's Legendary Dark Knight mode)

But what happens in second unlockable difficulty is mobs get ton of HP and get their own Devil Trigger, which makes them do ton of damage.

That and they also get:
> more aggressive
> new moves
> changes to attack patterns/enemy behaviour
> reworked enemy encounters

 

[Multidirectional]

But what happens in second unlockable difficulty is mobs get ton of HP and get their own Devil Trigger, which makes them do ton of damage.

That and they also get:
> more aggressive
> new moves
> changes to attack patterns/enemy behaviour
> reworked enemy encounters

Cool. Would be even nicer if they had given us a difficulty mode in between that does these things without adding HP bloat, then it might've been actually fun. And I wouldn't be forced to learn that garbage Exceed mechanic with Nero in order to do any actual damage.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

The HP bloat isn't as bad as you're making out to be, and is meant to make people use high risk moves

Nero can already do a shitload of damage without Exceed
Besides this is a funny complaint coming from someone that enjoys Sekiro

 

[Multidirectional]

Besides this is a funny complaint coming from someone that enjoys Sekiro

Sekiro doesn't have HP bloat, not even with Demon Bell on. I did think there was HP bloat on my first run though, when I completely sucked at the game. So perhaps I'm just not good enough at DMC then, but I didn't see how I could do any proper damage to enemies with Nero on DMD without Exceed.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

What I meant is the fact that Exceed is a simply a timing mechanic, that can be easily mastered by learning it's specific rhythms
Yet you don't like, but enjoy Sekiro that is pretty much a rhythm game

As for doing damage with Nero
Some of his moves give you hyper armor, DT makes even the simple combos ridicolous in terms damage, then you also have the Buster moves, Color Up shots, Charge shots and lastly the Devil Breakers
Which most people don't seem to get the point for these last ones
You aren't supposed to be conservative with them, they are called Breakers exactly because you are meant to discard them at a moment's notice
Use "break away" and their ultimate's, don't spare them, they are cheap to buy and plentiful to find, not only wil you be surprised how quickly you can dispatch a whole room of enemies but also at how fun it can be

 

[Multidirectional]

What I meant is the fact that Exceed is a simply a timing mechanic, that can be easily mastered by learning it's specific rhythms
Yet you don't like, but enjoy Sekiro that is pretty much a rhythm game

Having to press another button when I hit the attack button in order for weapon to charge up for next attack does not remind me of anything in Sekiro whatsoever. It's a tedious and retarded mechanic and I won't ever bother learning it. On top of that I gotta keep doing that long ass charge on his pistol too apparently. Fuck Nero.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

There's nothing to learn about it
You just press 2 buttons at the same time
Color Up is near instantaneous and lvl. 1 charge shot barely takes a second

It's a tedious and retarded mechanic and I won't ever bother learning it.

Timing mechanics have always existed in action games
There's nothing wrong with them when are used sparingly and in minor systems


Which again is funny considering that's not the case in Sekiro and you still enjoy it none the less...

 

[Machocruz]

The nuances between these games don't mean much for any character action noob. Just getting by to see the ending will be the main concern. At least that was my own experience when the first DMC came out, and then NG. I would say their difficulty are/were on the high side, like you expected a Jap action game to be if you came from arcades and 2D consoles. Bayonetta was the only one I would say was close to "piss easy" without playing for score. But remember, it came out during the peak generation of decline, so it was still more demanding than 99.9992% of mainstream releases.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Bayonetta was the only one I would say was close to "piss easy" without playing for score

Alot of the fun in Kamya's games are getting higher ranks
Still I reckon the reason you've might've find it easy is that you played straight without trying to "explore" things
Because Bayo has some optional and hidden content in campgain that is hard even on the regular dufficulty - in fact the hardest boss is entirely optional and hidden away

 

[Machocruz]

you played straight without trying to "explore" things
Because Bayo has some optional and hidden content in campgain that is hard even on the regular dufficulty - in fact the hardest boss is entirely optional and hidden away

Yep, I did my one playthrough, doing only a couple Alfheim challenges. It's a fairly long actioner, and I was renting it. Spectacular game, but it would have been quite the time commitment to really dig into the game past the dilettante level, and there were other games calling for my attention. I did spend some extra time running a couple bosses over and over until I mastered them, but that was only a couple hours extra

Speaking of which, I have this quirk in games where I try to play in my first playthrough how you are meant to play AFTER you have beaten the game at least once, learned the game, and acquired all or most of the upgrades/gear. It's strange and backwards how much time and energy I spent trying to do things like, for example, get at least Gold statue or better in Bayonetta chapters, find all Emblems in RE5, get the highest rank or 100% clear on a MGSV mission, or taking no Damage in RE6 Leon, my first time through. I'm sure I'm being mad time inefficient doing this instead of the normal, intended way. Also I go full retard sometimes and assume when I see someone else do it on their YT channel and they only have one or two playthrough videos of of it, that it's only their first or second time through the game. Derp.

 

[Matador]

Show off and exploring all the tools in DMC is very fun and memorable, but surviving the nasty and intense encounters in Ninja Gaiden is one of the best experiences in gaming.

Nothing can equate what NGB y NG2 did.

 

[Pathfinder: Kingmaker]

From my understanding, DMC is all about juggling demons for dat S-S-Smoking rating, while NG is all about surviving at all costs.

Yeah, DMCs, Bayonettas and MGR are pretty easy if you just want to rush through the missions and you're okay with getting bad scores, but the fun aspect of these games is to play them with (smokin' sexy) style for maximum scores and personal enjoyment

 

[cvv]

From my understanding, DMC is all about juggling demons for dat S-S-Smoking rating, while NG is all about surviving at all costs.

Yeah, DMCs, Bayonettas and MGR are pretty easy if you just want to rush through the missions and you're okay with getting bad scores, but the fun aspect of these games is to play them with (smokin' sexy) style for maximum scores and personal enjoyment

Not for me then. I hate the "make your own difficulty" schtick.

 

[Machocruz]

In DMC I do moves and combos that I think are cool and enjoyable, regardless what the scoring system thinks. 95% heavy attacks because I hate pecking.

 

[Matador]

From my understanding, DMC is all about juggling demons for dat S-S-Smoking rating, while NG is all about surviving at all costs.

Yeah, DMCs, Bayonettas and MGR are pretty easy if you just want to rush through the missions and you're okay with getting bad scores, but the fun aspect of these games is to play them with (smokin' sexy) style for maximum scores and personal enjoyment

Not for me then. I hate the "make your own difficulty" schtick.

It's not exactly like that. When you play them for a while you start to feel that you are not "winning" if you don't make good scores. Well, and if you think they are easy, just play the harder difficulties. Normal difficulty in DMC and MGR is like an extended tutorial to learn the combat mechanics, practice and be prepared to the harder difficulties.

The same applies for Ninja Gaiden games, but in those games even normal difficulty is very hard for a newcomer. Also is fantastic how harder difficulties add new enemies and even bosses.

 

[Pathfinder: Kingmaker]

In DMC I do moves and combos that I think are cool and enjoyable, regardless what the scoring system thinks. 95% heavy attacks because I hate pecking.

I think the scoring system mostly cares about you not getting hit, avoiding downtime and not being repetitive. Basically, avoid damage, don't turtle so the combo meter doesn't go down, and don't use the same one-two combos all the time and instead go full churaaazy chaining as many different moves as you can. I don't even focus on maximizing the style/combo meters in DMC/Bayo, and usually just following the above rules gets me high score

Not for me then. I hate the "make your own difficulty" schtick.

By non-difficult I mean compared to NJ, Nioh and some other "hardcore 3d action games". These games are still going to wipe the floor with your average popamoler's ass on any difficulty above normal.

 

[Multidirectional]

Not for me then. I hate the "make your own difficulty" schtick.

First run of DMC3 was pretty tough even on Normal to me and I assume DMCV on Son of Sparda (first unlockable difficulty) would be a decent challenge for anyone new to that type of game.

 

[Matador]

Also important to note, that in general, harder difficulty modes in the best character action games are very well done. Not typical HP bloat/more damage enemies.

Specially Ninja Gaiden Black/Sigma is very impressive in this aspect. Ninja Gaiden 2 get very cheap with explosive projectiles spam, though.

 

[Machocruz]

I think the scoring system mostly cares about you not getting hit, avoiding downtime and not being repetitive. Basically, avoid damage, don't turtle so the combo meter doesn't go down, and don't use the same one-two combos all the time and instead go full churaaazy chaining as many different moves as you can. I don't even focus on maximizing the style/combo meters in DMC/Bayo, and usually just following the above rules gets me high score

Yeah you right. In Bayonetta you have to peck with weaker attacks to get your hit counter high enough to meet Pure Platinum requirements. I prefer DMC's scoring by a large margin.

 

[Pathfinder: Kingmaker]

I prefer DMC's scoring by a large margin.

They literally have the same combo counter, it just shows a number instead of a letter grade in Bayo but works identically under the hood. Talk about placebo

And if anything it's DMC that has more "pecking" and juggling enemies with multiple attacks while in bayo you can dispatch ot them more quickly with wicked weaves and torture finishers

 

[Machocruz]

I prefer DMC's scoring by a large margin.

They literally have the same combo counter, it just shows a number instead of a letter grade in Bayo but works identically under the hood. Talk about placebo

And if anything it's DMC that has more "pecking" and juggling enemies with multiple attacks while in bayo you can dispatch ot them more quickly with wicked weaves and torture finishers

Then I misunderstood what I read about Bayo's system. Was under the impression that it pays to use weaker, quicker attacks to get more hits in/keep the combo going longer before the enemy expires or goes into their next phase. While in DMC you can string together a few big attacks as long as they are varied and get SSS. Guess I should have played Bayonetta more than once

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I'm sure I'm being mad time inefficient doing this instead of the normal, intended way.

I would say the problem really isn't time efficiency, but more the fact you're not relaxing and enjoying that first experience properly

They literally have the same combo counter, it just shows a number instead of a letter grade in Bayo but works identically under the hood

No
Bayonetta's combo counter is mostly about length - the game doesn't want you stop when you begin a combo, it wants you to keep going for as long as you can (obviously without repeating moves too frequently)
DMC combo meter is more about what actions you are performing and their difficulty in your current situation - it takes into account the difficulty of the move you're executing and the current state of the enemies you're figthing, to determine how "stylish" your performance is

 

[Deflowerer]

Uh, had no idea emulation has progressed so rapidly??

 

[Matador]

My brother just brought me my old Xbox360. Now it's time to beat NGB and NG2 in Master Ninja for the first time. Made a lot of playthroughs between NGB,NG2, Sigma and Sigma 2 but never tried to beat the real deal.