Not sure why would you consider Caesar's Legion to be evil

[Deleted Member 22431]

You know that an independent ending exist, right?
You don't have to choose the 3 moron factions.

The thing is that in every ending you have bad things happening and people dying.

 

[mondblut]

The latter allowed their citizens to live as they see fit, which resulted in depravity, such as cannibalism, drug dealings and prostitution

Yes, prostitution is so much worse than capturing women and forcing them to be sex slaves.

Why can't we have both?

 

[502]

In an ideal world NV wouldn't be rushed like diarrhea and the Legion would be a well-built faction instead of a caricature.

 

[Sigourn]

The issue with the Legion is that "the end justifies the means" only amounts to so much before you start thinking "I'm killing, crucifying, and enslaving people left and right. Are we the baddies?". Not to mention we don't know what the fuck will happen when Caesar dies (this makes me think it would have been interesting to find a way to literally replace Mr. House with Caesar, so that he can reign supreme forever). Moreover, Caesar's vision for the wasteland is only a few steps earlier from becoming another NCR, so his whole argument holds no ground: if you are not gonna live forever, you can't forever control what your nation will eventually become.

NCR and Mr. House are the best endings and there's no doubt about it. Mr. House is a tough one to ally with only because what he does to the BoS.

 

[mondblut]

Caesar's Legion is no more evil than historical slaver societies of the ancient period.

That being said,

Spoiler

Daily reminder that the only good faction of the Fallout setting is the Brotherhood Enclave.

FTFY

 

[Utgard-Loki]

mr house the technolich has got to be the worst choice. he makes a bunch of retard tribals into even worse people by having them larp as awful prewar vegas subcultures. slavers, drug addicts and cannibals. i also think that if he had the resources he would force everyone into robobrains.

ncr is second. bunch of leeches that are simply there to funnel all the resources they can back to shady sands. it takes some real effort on your part to support the minor factions to make that ending salvagable.

legion is pretty bad, because they make women do manual labour, and not just any manual labour, but goofy comicbook manual labour. have you seen the shit they make women carry at their camp? the weight of that crap shatters my suspension of disbelief harder than any talking deathclaw, or chess playing rad scorpion ever could.

best option is wildcard ending where you go around and shoot raiders, ncr, legion and assorted wildlife in the face. making the mojave a better place to live, one high explosive 50 cal round at a time.

 

[mondblut]

legion is pretty bad, because they make women do manual labour

Hey, ugly ones shouldn't go waste too.

 

[RNGsus]

Apparently codex forgot that war, war never changes. Nobody is securing the Wasteland. If there's going to be any recovery, it'll be done Benny's or Mr House's way.

 

[502]

best option is wildcard ending where you go around and shoot raiders, ncr, legion and assorted wildlife in the face. making the mojave a better place to live, one high explosive 50 cal round at a time.

It was clever of them to undersell Wild Card/Yes Man as a "last resort" ending in case you burn all bridges, when it's obviously the golden ending when played right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpfnECadvMQ

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Apparently codex forgot that war, war never changes. Nobody is securing the Wasteland. If there's going to be any recovery, it'll be done Benny's or Mr House's way.

This is what Mr. House deserves.

 

[DalekFlay]

Mr House is not authoritarian. He only wanna to protect the city that only exists because of him. He doesn't wanna to expand his influence. He wanna to protect HIS PRIVATE PROPRIETY.

Claiming the entire city through force via robots and controlling the people who live there isn't authoritarian? "If you don't like Nazi rule of France you can just leave!" is your out clause there? Man, the political stances here sometimes...

S.Torch is right that all the New Vegas factions are bad to some extent. News flash: every system created and managed by humans is bad to some extent. However seeing the NCR's corrupt bureaucracy as clearly worse than authoritarians with powerful armies that control everyone (and in one case outright enslave and rape them) is a very, very "online" opinion to have in 2020 I guess. To bring this back to Outer Worlds though, it's a shame the faction conflict is pretty empty compared, and you can't even have these batshit insane discussions about it. The board is bougie evil, the doctor is manic libertarian, and let's roll the dice.

 

[Sigourn]

Mr House is not authoritarian. He only wanna to protect the city that only exists because of him. He doesn't wanna to expand his influence. He wanna to protect HIS PRIVATE PROPRIETY.

Claiming the entire city through force via robots and controlling the people who live there isn't authoritarian? "If you don't like Nazi rule of France you can just leave!" is your out clause there? Man, the political stances here sometimes...

House didn't invade New Vegas, he was the only one left to claim it. House isn't even stopping people from getting to New Vegas or leaving New Vegas. All he asks is that you play by his rules, seeing as it is basically his own private country.

 

[DalekFlay]

House didn't invade New Vegas, he was the only one left to claim it. House isn't even stopping people from getting to New Vegas or leaving New Vegas. All he asks is that you play by his rules, seeing as it is basically his own private country.

Vegas was not hit by the bombs, therefore it wasn't some completely empty warehouse in Cleveland that he could claim. The only reason he has control is his army.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

through force via robots and controlling the people who live there isn't authoritarian

The only part of New Vegas that is secured like that is the strip. If you're going to argue that it's just a matter of time: he's not lacking in securitrons to do it already.

"If you don't like Nazi rule of France you can just leave!" is your out clause there?

More like "If you don't like the French rule of France you can just leave!"

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Not sure why would you consider Caesar's Legion to be evil.

The only reason they may be seen that way is probably because the faction didn't get enough content. You hear the horror stories from NCR soldiers practically the whole game and by the time most players got to the Legion territory they already have an established opinion.

But if you pay attention the game also shows the good sides of Legion and corruption of the NCR leadership. Most gamers just had to have a villain in the story, when there isn't any.

I think the fact that when you first encounter them they're razing the entire town might have something to do with it. There might be an argument regarding "who's vision for the wasteland was right in the end", but in the narrative they are clearly set to be the baddies.

 

[karoliner]

The guys wear skirts, of course is an evil faction.

 

[Sigourn]

Vegas was not hit by the bombs, therefore it wasn't some completely empty warehouse in Cleveland that he could claim. The only reason he has control is his army.

Only because he saved it. Even then, people eventually died out and it was left for him to reclaim. And I personally don't see the problem with the robots: I only have control of my home because people can't loot it because of the police, i.e. with that argument nothing is ever really yours since all it takes is someone else to take it away from you.

 

[DalekFlay]

The only part of New Vegas that is secured like that is the strip. If you're going to argue that it's just a matter of time: he's not lacking in securitrons to do it already.

He can only control the strip because he lacks more robots. His quest-line is literally all about getting him more robots so he can control more territory. He has you kill anyone who stands in his way.

More like "If you don't like the French rule of France you can just leave!"

The Nazis were the rulers of France at the time, through a proxy, so I don't see your point here.

 

[Sigourn]

Not sure why would you consider Caesar's Legion to be evil.

The only reason they may be seen that way is probably because the faction didn't get enough content. You hear the horror stories from NCR soldiers practically the whole game and by the time most players got to the Legion territory they already have an established opinion.

But if you pay attention the game also shows the good sides of Legion and corruption of the NCR leadership. Most gamers just had to have a villain in the story, when there isn't any.

I think the fact that when you first encounter them they're razing the entire town might have something to do with it. There might be an argument regarding "who's vision for the wasteland was right in the end", but in the narrative they are clearly set to be the baddies.

It's also their sadism at that, like you can tell the Legion actually loves their job instead of going at it with a "it's a shame this has to be done but somebody has to do it" mentality. That would make it much easier to empathize with them.

 

[Sigourn]

He can only control the strip because he lacks more robots. His quest-line is literally all about getting him more robots so he can control more territory. He has you kill anyone who stands in his way.

Only because the Brotherhood would try to kill House instead, unlike Caesar who, for instance, has you kill the Boomers if you can't get them to join you, even if they don't mean trouble.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

He can only control the strip because he lacks more robots. His quest-line is literally all about getting him more robots so he can control more territory. He has you kill anyone who stands in his way.

What?
The first part is about upgrading existing robots to have a force that can stand up to the legion and NCR.

 

[RNGsus]

"Holdup evil doer! The NCR can do a much better job securing the wasteland, than a robot army armed with lasers and rockets."
"No. They can't. Not in anyone's universe."
"W-well, the Strip is too authoritarian! I'd like to be mugged, raped, and lose all my money in Vegas! What about my freedumbs, huh NAZI?!"
"Which is it, faggot?"
"Oh. Well. Hey, Mr House doesn't have an empire. He doesn't want to remake America! All that sand and rubble needs to be conquered pronto!"
"Go to hell, cocksucker."

THE END

 

[DalekFlay]

And I personally don't see the problem with the robots: I only have control of my home because people can't loot it because of the police, i.e. with that argument nothing is ever really yours since all it takes is someone else to take it away from you.

Only because the Brotherhood would try to kill House instead, unlike Caesar who, for instance, has you kill the Boomers if you can't get them to join you, even if they don't mean trouble.

The reason the police protect your house is because you have a deed that says you own it, and we've created a social structure where that matters. That kind of structure, flawed and prone to corruption as it can be, is much better than the wild west "whoever is strongest and can take it owns this house" or the authoritarian "you own this house if you please me personally with no oversight and I let you." If any of you armchair internet revolutionaries had to actually live in one of the latter you'd shit yourselves and be dead or a slave within weeks.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The reason the police protect your house

 

[Cryomancer]

Claiming the entire city through force via robots and controlling the people who live there isn't authoritarian? "If you don't like Nazi rule of France you can just leave!" is your out clause there? Man, the political stances here sometimes...

Last time i checked, Nazis NEVER protected france from nuclear destruction, constructed everything that France needs giving food, security, energy, etc. Quite teh contrary, they was trying to conquer and annex everyone. Hitler criticized the decentralized power of Switzerland Not mentioning that the territory that he maintain is much smaller than a country. Mr House is far more like a monarch of Liechtenstein than a Tyrant.

And note, under Mr House, NCR can exist and create his failed modern state in other places. He don't care. Just don't mess with the region that he worked hard to protect and make it prosper. Go make a corrupt bureaucracy where everyone is a state slave elsewhere.