Note of the outskirts - blobber by Cryptrat

[Strange Fellow]

Never noticed that. Then why is he sometimes at the back and other times at the front?

 

[CryptRat]

So anyway, there are front and back rows in this game? Might want to mention that somewhere, especially since you can't rely on the old 3-3 convention when there's an odd number of party members.

Yes. You can see the character is indeed in back row due to the gap before the number before his name. I think there's also a mention in range description, not saying it's clear, at all, it's not.

The thing is that first half of "living" characters is in front row, the character probably moved to back row when the ones behind him died. I will very probably change that so that the first half are always front row while only characters from back rows would move to front row when the characters above them in the list get unconscious but not the other way around. I like the Might & Magic 2 way but it's different, I don't think it moves your melee characters back row in the middle of the fight.

Is the character using the bandages really the one with 5 in first aid? This would be extremely unlucky, he rolled at least 4 tails among 5 coins 4 times in a raw. Already missing this 2 times in a raw is the exception rather than the norm.

Yes, I'm sure. And when you risk spending 4+ bandages even with a First Aid of 5, and every single party member is liable to start bleeding multiple times per encounter, it gets to be excessive. I'd need to carry hundreds of bandages.

But once again 4 bandages with first aid 5 is completly ridiculous, you should barely miss 1 times over 3. For example I just used about 20 bandages with first aid 5, never missed twice in a row, either you were in some very unlucky run or the doctor had a big problem like his arm broken or something.

 

[CryptRat]

V1.0.5 released

Fixes :
- During the turn when the party stops getting lost the automap was not filled. This was fixed.
- In some cases when an inventory page got emptied the game did not switched to the previous one. This was fixed.
- "Tool-tips" were added to the game options.
- Some text fixes.

Changes :
- The first half of the conscious characters, rounded up, used to be in first row of the party (and the other ones in second row). Now if you have got 5 or 6 characters, for example, the first 3 conscious characters will be in front row instead (even if all the others are unconscious), so that characters in front row always stay in front row (characters advance from back row to front row as above characters get unconscious but not the other way around).
- The possibility to use WASD and ZQSD settings only for movement but not for menu selections was added.

 

[V_K]

Can we get a "take all" button when looting btw?

 

[CryptRat]

Not sure if you mean Take everything on the floor or Take stock (of consumables) but I'll just add both anyway.

Why neither is currently in the game would be a long story whose central theme is that I'm dumb.

 

[V_K]

Take everything on the floor or Take stock (of consumables)

Both. But the lack of the letter is the more annoying one.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Well, I restarted with a better party and things are going swimmingly. Not because the party is better (although it is, substantially so, I didn't realise how much better the stats get when you roll instead of point-buy), but because of metagaming. I can beeline to all the treasures for sweet XP without having to stumble into a million hidden traps and encounters. Still haven't fought anything, and now I'm wondering how far I can get just avoiding combat. I read Grauken's revioo of To Hell With Guns where he says he got to the final boss having fought pretty much no enemies, and I wonder to what extent you can do the same here. For now I'm having a great time exploring.

 

[V_K]

Well, I restarted with a better party and things are going swimmingly. Not because the party is better (although it is, substantially so, I didn't realise how much better the stats get when you roll instead of point-buy), but because of metagaming. I can beeline to all the treasures for sweet XP without having to stumble into a million hidden traps and encounters.

What a surprise. Total shocker.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I'm not defending it, for the record.
I should say though that even before I restarted, deciding to go exploring while mostly avoiding enemies worked out a lot better than throwing my party against junkies over and over again, and I was having fun. It's more a question of a change in tactics on my part. I only decided to restart because I was unhappy with some of my characters.

 

[CryptRat]

You should not worry about xp, treasures give a lot of xp compared to enemies.

Entering each password in first floor gives you susbtantial xp as well (and removes the robots behind the doors in case you were wondering). I think the puzzles are quite obtuse but the bottom right one especially may be doable if you're really working on it. The problem of top left one is that the hint is not directly in front.

 

[Strange Fellow]

You should not worry about xp, treasures give a lot of xp compared to enemies.

Entering each password in first floor gives you susbtantial xp as well (and removes the robots behind the doors in case you were wondering). I think the puzzles are quite obtuse but the bottom right one especially may be doable if you're really working on it. The problem of top left one is that the hint is not directly in front.

That's funny, I found the upper left easy, while the lower right took me a while. But man, when suddenly I realised what I was looking at. That feeling just can't be beat.

The combat has gotten substantially easier now that I have good stats, and I'm breezing through encounters that I previously had to savescum in order to beat. Feels like point-buy in character creation is so much worse than rolling that it's bordering on a trap option. As for status effects, they've basically become a non-issue like you said. I still agree with V_K that this is bad design, because the way it works makes it extremely punishing for players that haven't learned the ropes yet, but if you metagame, it becomes a minor nuisance at most. I don't mind the spike and poison traps, but enemies inflict A LOT of crits on the party early on, and with no bandages that's a death sentence. The thing that really exacerbates the issue is that teleporter in the starting area, which is just pure evil.I don't suppose you'll budge on that, and I see the fun of letting the player know early on what he's in for, but the fact remains that once you've stepped on it it's borderline impossible to recover from, because chances are you haven't had time to outfit the party properly.

Anyway, contrary to the above I'm having a blast with the game now that I've gotten over the initial hurdle. This is damn good.

Edit:
How's the Brawler feat supposed to work? It says it adds status effects to unarmed attacks, but is it only on crits or what? Tooltips describing what crits from various damage types do would be welcome.

Feedback:
The Heal option at the doctor's should cure bleeding IMO, considering the price.
The map should reveal all the tiles you stepped on before you bought the mapping tools. Yes, it's unrealistic, but as it is, if you don't buy them right away (which you wouldn't because they're really expensive) you're going to have to either revisit every tile or else continually cross-reference with hand-drawn maps. Both those options just add tedium for no good reason. Also, and this is just personal preference, M should close the map as well as open it.

Bug reports:
The Punch attack description mentions a "bare-handed combat" skill.
The Sparkgun's description is broken.

 

[CryptRat]

Thanks a lot for all this feedback, it's super cool.

Congratulations for solving the riddles, and I'm super happy someone did, you made my day, like many things they are here as one more layer of complexity, in practice all my friends bruteforced through the puzzles, and I probably would have too as a player. Seeing players use all the extra options I would not have used myself is probably the most cool thing as an RPG dev, some players pickpocketing and attacking shops, some players opening some doors the legit ways like you did, it makes all those things worthwhile while you don't really know when adding the things to the game.

As for the top left puzzle, what I hate is that there's a forcefield which puts you up just before while the actual path is not upwards only but can be taken in both direction (because upwards only was terrible), this mislead I don't like, it's not deliberate but a consequence of the rest of the design of the level. The other reason why I had the intuition that bottom right was easier is that you acknowledge by exploring there's even actually a riddle there, unlike top left.

They are probably the hardest riddles in the game, you'll probably solve everything else too.

Feels like point-buy in character creation is so much worse than rolling that it's bordering on a trap option.

You're right, I'll switch to 50 points for a start.

As for status effects, they've basically become a non-issue like you said. I still agree with V_K that this is bad design, because the way it works makes it extremely punishing for players that haven't learned the ropes yet, but if you metagame, it becomes a minor nuisance at most. I don't mind the spike and poison traps, but enemies inflict A LOT of crits on the party early on, and with no bandages that's a death sentence.The thing that really exacerbates the issue is that teleporter in the starting area, which is just pure evil.I don't suppose you'll budge on that, and I see the fun of letting the player know early on what he's in for

Yes, thanks, I'll see what I can do, taking into account that you don't think status effects are still terrible after that part, but removing the teleporter is indeed not an option :D.

Note that it's really much less about letting the player know what he's in for than both having him lost a bit in this small part of the game with characters possibly starting to bleed looking for the bandages which are in this area (and those without low endurance will reach -150 hps but they won't die, others may die unfortunately), since it won't happen again, with the automap it's mostly busywork, and letting the system work as it works, piercing damages are just very common and the first type you'll be very resistant against with an armor and a helmet.

Don't think I'm not taking into account what you're saying, I don't want to completely slaughter that part of the game but that does not mean I'll never do anything about it.

 

[V_K]

but removing the teleporter is indeed not an option :D

Is moving it further West (past the shop doors) an option at least, so that a new player could at least reach the pharmacy without getting immediately screwed up?

 

[CryptRat]

How's the Brawler feat supposed to work? It says it adds status effects to unarmed attacks, but is it only on crits or what?

Technical stuff incoming .

Status effects work like that :
For most status effects, status effects can be applied if either :
- successful hit and critically failed resistance check against the damage type associated with the damage roll (what the game calls cunning hit), or
- critical hit D&D-like, if you have 0 in critical roll 20 on hit, if you have 1 roll 20 or 19 ... and failed resistance check against the damage type of the damage roll (what the game calls accurate hit).

Two exceptions :
- Serious afflictions (typically broken members) can be applied only when both accurate hit and critically failed resistance check against damage type.
- If the "damage roll" deals 0 damage (like Behead with a katana), then it's more permissive and can be applied if successful hit and failed resistance check against damage type.

I said it can be applied instead of it's applied because there's an additionnal resistance check against the type of resistance associated with the status effect (more than often the same as the attack because that concerns all the systemic status effect associated to any damage rool, any poison attack has a chance to apply poison, any piercing attack has a chance to apply bleeding ... but it's not mandatory, additionnal status effects can be added to an attack and for example an attack may have to successfully pierce to try to apply a poison).

One thing you may want to know is that the game does not mention "accurate hit" or "cunning hit" if the character dealt more than one damage roll (multiple types, multiple attacks per round) and not all were accurate hits or cunning hits, so in practice characters do more of those than one may think by reading the log.

Tooltips describing what crits from various damage types do would be welcome.

I need to do something about that indeed.

The Heal option at the doctor's should cure bleeding IMO, considering the price.

Sorry, it should, it's a bug, it's more expensive when the character has status effects because it should cure those (except those which require surgery) but currently it does not cure the status effects anymore, looks like I broke the thing at a point.

The map should reveal all the tiles you stepped on before you bought the mapping tools. Yes, it's unrealistic, but as it is, if you don't buy them right away (which you wouldn't because they're really expensive) you're going to have to either revisit every tile or else continually cross-reference with hand-drawn maps. Both those options just add tedium for no good reason.

I have got mixed feelings. You're from the brave players who drew their own map, most players don't . I'll still consider it.

Also, and this is just personal preference, M should close the map as well as open it.

Sure.

Bug reports:
The Punch attack description mentions a "bare-handed combat" skill.
The Sparkgun's description is broken.

Thanks, sparkgun's description was already fixed for next version, statistics like when different players find the same bugs, and I like that too.

 

[V_K]

having him lost a bit in this small part of the game with characters possibly starting to bleed looking for the bandages which are in this area (and those without low endurance will reach -150 hps but they won't die, others may die unfortunately)

It just doesn't work like this. First, if your traps detecting skill isn't high enough, the whole party gets poisoned/bleeding/burning and just dies when they reach 0 HP. Second, if you don't know ahead where caches with bandage are, you might just as well restart because status effect don't give you enough time to explore.
Also note, that none of the players so far seems to be enjoying this experience.

 

[CryptRat]

more than often the same as the attack because that concerns all the systemic status effect associated to any damage roll[...]any piercing attack has a chance to apply bleeding

Bad example by the way, you roll against death (which includes resistance against death, poisons and wounds) for bleeding, not a second time against piercing.

 

[CryptRat]

Currently putting 1.0.6b1 online because you can get stuck in the middle of teleporters in floor 2, if you are then this version will fix the bug. 1.0.6 coming later today.

 

[CryptRat]

V1.0.6 released

Fixes :
- You could get stuck in the middle of teleporters in the second floor of the dungeon. This was fixed.
- The character was not cured from status effects in the infirmary. This was fixed.
- Force bomb and sparkgun descriptions were missing. They were added.
- Some text fixes.

Changes :
- Two buttons were added on treasure screen, to take a full stack of stackable items and to take everything on the floor.
- The number of attribute points when buying stats was raised to 50.
- Junkies were given a bandage.
- Various resistances of the octopusses, jellyfishes and ethreal beasts were lowered.
- The number of charges of various armors, suits and boots was raised.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Starting to regret my decision to accept the 1 STR roll on my entire back row, they can't carry shit

As for the top left puzzle, what I hate is that there's a forcefield which puts you up just before while the actual path is not upwards only but can be taken in both direction (because upwards only was terrible), this mislead I don't like, it's not deliberate but a consequence of the rest of the design of the level. The other reason why I had the intuition that bottom right was easier is that you acknowledge by exploring there's even actually a riddle there, unlike top left.

Having played Might & Magic 1 I was on the lookout for something like that the instant I saw that there were invisible walls. :D The other one didn't click as easily.

They are probably the hardest riddles in the game, you'll probably solve everything else too.

Aw man :/

Moar feedback:
Sparkgun Spark attack description is fucked.
Sometimes the combat log can be too unclear. For instance, when doing attacks that target a group of enemies, it'll sometimes just say something like "[Character] performs X attack on 3 Tanks" and nothing more, and it's not clear if he's hitting or missing or what. I assume that means he missed all of them? If that's the case then it should say so.
One time, my confused character attacked another character in the party, which should've killed him (the log said it did something like 100 damage), but instead it did nothing. Afraid I can't be more specific than that, but maybe there's something funky in the code for friendly fire. I didn't know the confusion effect could do that - I'm gonna have to start taking it more seriously...

At the top of my wishlist is still a sequential combat log. The current implementation is bugging me more and more. I hope you'll take the time to do this.

 

[CryptRat]

Sometimes the combat log can be too unclear. For instance, when doing attacks that target a group of enemies, it'll sometimes just say something like "[Character] performs X attack on 3 Tanks" and nothing more, and it's not clear if he's hitting or missing or what. I assume that means he missed all of them? If that's the case then it should say so.

I'll check and add appropriate feedback.

One time, my confused character attacked another character in the party, which should've killed him (the log said it did something like 100 damage), but instead it did nothing. Afraid I can't be more specific than that, but maybe there's something funky in the code for friendly fire. I didn't know the confusion effect could do that - I'm gonna have to start taking it more seriously...

Thanks, I need to check that.

If a character is charmed then he attacks an ally, if he's confused or crazy then he makes a mental resistance check before acting and if he critically fails then he acts like he was charmed.

Note that the character will do the action he was going to do (or do nothing), so you can choose to make a confused character do nothing to be sure he won't attack a friend. I'll double check but I'm pretty sure that what would target allies still target allies.

At the top of my wishlist is still a sequential combat log. The current implementation is bugging me more and more. I hope you'll take the time to do this.

I'll try to do that as soon as possible.

 

[CryptRat]

t the top of my wishlist is still a sequential combat log. The current implementation is bugging me more and more. I hope you'll take the time to do this.

The part when time passes at the end of the round needs a rework but for the rest feel free to check 1.0.7b1 version and tell me if it's better.

 

[Strange Fellow]

t the top of my wishlist is still a sequential combat log. The current implementation is bugging me more and more. I hope you'll take the time to do this.

The part when time passes at the end of the round needs a rework but for the rest feel free to check 1.0.7b1 version and tell me if it's better.

I don't like it. For one, the game has started crashing frequently in combat. Worse, it hasn't really made anything more readable either. The smooth scrolling which makes things hard to follow is still there, only now it's sped up at certain points to make each message appear in full. The problem is that it's still constantly moving. Something has obviously been done to the way the character list updates, but since the log still requires constant attention to even have an idea of what's going on, it's not doing much good yet.

Something else that makes the log hard to parse, which I didn't comment upon before, is that the results of multi-target attacks come in unreadable blocks. I'd at least give each damage roll a separate line, and not display them all in one go, but rather feed them into the log one at a time. Again, I think it would be much better if the log only updated when a new message is shown on the screen, because as it is, what you've done has actually made things worse. Technically it's a step in the right direction, but more has to be done before it feels good, or even before it feels better than what you had before.

Would it be easy to make a speed setting where the log doesn't scroll at all except on input? Since progressing one "click" on input is already implemented, I imagine it'd be possible, but who knows. It'd be cool if it is.
The ability to scroll up in the log would also be good, at least to the start of the previous round.

Anyway, apart from that, I have moar stuff for fixing:

When Healing with a Doctor item in combat, the choice of whom to target doesn't display properly (targetting works, it just doesn't display the menu for it).
More seriously: when I tested the above by Healing an unconscious character in combat, it brought his HP back to full, but he remained unconscious and never recovered. In the end I had to purposefully take damage by walking onto a trap in order to get him to wake up.

Descriptions:
Bramblequickseed is broken.
Invigorating Suit mentions Mental Points and MP regen.

 

[CryptRat]

For one, the game has started crashing frequently in combat.

Damn, thanks, I just made the version unavailable then, and at worse I'll switch back to how it was before.

Would it be easy to make a speed setting where the log doesn't scroll at all except on input? Since progressing one "click" on input is already implemented, I imagine it'd be possible, but who knows. It'd be cool if it is.

Sure, I'll add that.

Anyway, apart from that, I have moar stuff for fixing

Thanks, I'll fix these.

 

[CryptRat]

I just released a 1.0.7b2 before going to bed so you can use your Doctors and your game at least does not constantly crash.

Something has obviously been done to the way the character list updates

This is not in this version since there's 99% chance that it is what makes the game crash somehow. I'm still working on those character list updates, I just don't want that it blocks the release of other bug fixes.


However these 3 things are in, hopefully it will be better than nothing :

Sometimes the combat log can be too unclear. For instance, when doing attacks that target a group of enemies, it'll sometimes just say something like "[Character] performs X attack on 3 Tanks" and nothing more, and it's not clear if he's hitting or missing or what. I assume that means he missed all of them? If that's the case then it should say so.

results of multi-target attacks come in unreadable blocks. I'd at least give each damage roll a separate line

Would it be easy to make a speed setting where the log doesn't scroll at all except on input? Since progressing one "click" on input is already implemented, I imagine it'd be possible, but who knows. It'd be cool if it is.

+ the 2 bug fixes of Doctor and the texts (normally bramble quickseed was one of the two remaining items with spiritual whip which had no text key).


I'm going to check a couple of more things but 1.0.7 will probably be released tomorrow and might be the exact same as 1.0.7b2.


Sorry for all this mess, I hope the game is not too painful to play, thanks a lot for your feedbacks.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Sorry for all this mess, I hope the game is not too painful to play

Are you kidding? I love it, I've been playing it non-stop since release. This is easily my GOTY 2020. It's just that somehow only the negative feedback has made it into my posts, sorry about that