Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[BLOBERT]

BRO DECADO I HAVENT READ THE THREAD TO MUCH BUT ID HOPE WE CAN GET SOME SHIT THAT TWENTY TO THIRTY YEAR OLD GAMES HANDLED QUITE WELL

BUT MAYBE I AM A DREAMER LOLLOLOL

 

[Lhynn]

Gotta say Grunker is winning this argument pretty handily.

Anyways, the idea that that devs should build a game-breaking feature into their own game because OF IMMERSION! is ridiculous. There a million and one sacrifices, short cuts, and abstractions in every RPG for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being nobody has yet to build a functioning fucking holodeck.

And then you have people just plain old talking out of their asses.

he is? to me blobert is making a better argument than grunker ever has in this particular subject, and with more class.

 

[Decado]

"Class"? What in the flying hell are you talking about? Do you know what that word means?

 

[Lhynn]

I do, hes saying that a game that has over 25 years has better features and more reactivity than something made with over 4 million dollars by a team of professionals.

 

[Decado]

BRO DECADO I HAVENT READ THE THREAD TO MUCH BUT ID HOPE WE CAN GET SOME SHIT THAT TWENTY TO THIRTY YEAR OLD GAMES HANDLED QUITE WELL

BUT MAYBE I AM A DREAMER LOLLOLOL

I don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't really give a shit if you can kill everything in the game that walks. What cracks me up is people foaming at the mouth at uncontroversial design decisions like "No, you can't kill every NPC and take all their money, because that would horribly game-breaking." Like, this is a thing to get upset about? In a game that has so far managed to be fairly silent on your ability to do an evil playthrough? What the fuck are dudes getting so wound up for?

I guess I just love the complete lack of self-awareness that drives some of these posts. Like, your opinion on XYZ in the game isn't being catered to? Oh fuck, DECLINE! No, you fucking dumbass, there are always design decisions to be made, and this is one of them. I almost wonder why people like this bother playing new games at all. Do you want the same experience every fucking time, just with different lore and different character systems? Just keep playing the old games then, Jesus H. Christ. Spare the rest of us your histrionics. I can say with 100% certainty that my inability to kill every shopkeeper in BGII and get away with it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game at a all.

 

[Decado]

I do, hes saying that a game that has over 25 years has better features and more reactivity than something made with over 4 million dollars by a team of professionals.

That may be true, but that's not what "class" means.

 

[Hormalakh]

the funny thing is that josh hasn't really said anything about killing shopkeepers and stealing their loot. that's coming out of their ass. All he said was that pickpocketing would occur through dialogue boxes. personally i think that's a great way of doing it. it allows them several different possibilities in terms of win/lose scenarios because they do not have to implement one singular mechanic for all of the pickpockets.

The goons with nothing worth stealing in the older games had really no good reason to get pickpocketed, and the goons who you'd want to pickpocket and "attach a bomb" to, you can do that in this system just as well.

 

[Lhynn]

Im perfectly calm and collected dude, just saying, the decision was shit and lazy. and yes, its classy because hes playing the retard while you cant see past the obvious, i find it tasteful and appropriate in this context.
Its not the first time i question a minor design decision, wont be the last, and it amuses me how many people just come out to defend it because its better to not waste time and resources on the little details that make a good RPG what it is.
They seem convinced that stuff like good writing and combat can make for a great game, but its the quirks of the game what we remember years after we play it. Games like the ultima series, fallout, and even arcanum are remembered for key moments that we found awesome, despite its flaws.

Also, i usually speak on broader terms than just this game, mostly because ive missed a lot of updates and because im not obsessed over what they are doing over there, mainly just reacting to stuff being said.

 

[Ninjerk]

Deus ex is not remembered because of its level design

 

[Lhynn]

Deus ex is not remembered because of its level design

read what i said after that...

 

[Jaesun]

Why is being able to kill everyone and anything so important? In PnP sessions, sure shit might go wrong and you may end up killing someone you had not expected too. What does being able to kill everyone and anything achieve? OMG IMMURSHUN?

 

[Ninjerk]

Deus ex is not remembered because of its level design

read what i said after that...

Now you're defending it

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO LOLLOLO OK

I DONT WANT TO GET AWAY WITH IT BRO THAT WOULD BE WORSE

I DONT CARE TO MUCH EITHER I BOUGHT THE FUCKING GAME ALREADY SO BE IT

BRO DECADO IT WAS SO FUN IN GAMES GETTING STRONG ENOUGH TO SLAUGHTER THE ENTIRE TOWN AND DO IT JUST TO SEE IF YOU COULD LOLLOLLOL AND IT WAS SO MUCH BETTER WHEN THE GAME CARED AND YOU COULDNT FINISH IT OR PEOPLE HATED YOU

BRO I GUESS THAT IS WHY I PLAY MOSTLY OLD GAMES NOW

 

[Lhynn]

Deus ex is not remembered because of its level design

read what i said after that...

Now you're defending it

My mistake, didnt knew that level design encompassed every little thing, carefully handcrafting every possible way out and what you can do. ill edit it out.

 

[tuluse]

BRO LOLLOLO OK

I DONT WANT TO GET AWAY WITH IT BRO THAT WOULD BE WORSE

I DONT CARE TO MUCH EITHER I BOUGHT THE FUCKING GAME ALREADY SO BE IT

BRO DECADO IT WAS SO FUN IN GAMES GETTING STRONG ENOUGH TO SLAUGHTER THE ENTIRE TOWN AND DO IT JUST TO SEE IF YOU COULD LOLLOLLOL AND IT WAS SO MUCH BETTER WHEN THE GAME CARED AND YOU COULDNT FINISH IT OR PEOPLE HATED YOU

BRO I GUESS THAT IS WHY I PLAY MOSTLY OLD GAMES NOW

PE is mostly likely going to have all these things. The last word from Sawyer was that they hadn't designed any unkillable NPCs.

 

[Ninjerk]

Deus ex is not remembered because of its level design

read what i said after that...

Now you're defending it

My mistake, didnt knew that level design encompassed every little thing, carefully handcrafting every possible way out and what you can do. ill edit it out.

Closer

 

[Apexeon]

Why is being able to kill everyone and anything so important? In PnP sessions, sure shit might go wrong and you may end up killing someone you had not expected too. What does being able to kill everyone and anything achieve? OMG IMMURSHUN?

Come on we need the body parts of the shop keeper in full HD/3D or no Immurshun man.
Rag doll physics so the liver bounces off the wall correctly after I smacked it with the shop keepers arm as well please.

 

[Lhynn]

ah come on, you are not being fair. What does killing someone achieve? you seriously have to ask? with the endless amount of mods outthere that let you kill essentials, with the countless praises to morrowind for allowing you to live in a doomed world.
And apexeon, who gives a shit about graphics? you are more obsessed with them than most consoletards.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Decado

What blobbert said. Decades old games have much more features and player agency cause it was just passionate people making the games they want to play. And you can feel that charm.

Now ith inXile and Obsidian KSers are bent on designing a optimum product for the audience, with decisions/features just a list of checkboxes.

You also conviniently forgot that in the initial KS pitch quest design would be open ended with you witnessing a supernatural event and then it goes on from there on (Quest Design similar fallout) was specifically mentioned. BUT Later josh changed it into more towards iwd linearity. Now what can the possible reasons for this change?

My guess is to be able to afford hot hookers unproven interns

 

[J_C]

Why is being able to kill everyone and anything so important? In PnP sessions, sure shit might go wrong and you may end up killing someone you had not expected too. What does being able to kill everyone and anything achieve? OMG IMMURSHUN?

It doesn't add anything to the game, so it is just retarded immurshun. Funny that the codex always mocks others when they talk about immersion in other games, but when they do it...oh no, that is serious business.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

It doesn't add anything to the game, so it is just retarded immurshun. Funny that the codex always mocks others when they talk about immersion in other games, but when they do it...oh no, that is serious business.

Yeah, but Codex wants immersion to come from a well designed world and great amount of reactivity in the game (think of Deus Ex for example in which most C&C is cosmetic but NPCs reacting to many of the random stuff you do is one of the things people love about the game) while for your average modern gamer it probably means a lot of scripted events viewed from the 1st person perspective (with a bunch of QTE thrown in as well) and shiny graphics.

 

[J_C]

Sure, but not being able to kill shopkeepers won't be to the detrament of the game in any way. It can still be reactive.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Like, your opinion on XYZ in the game isn't being catered to? Oh fuck, DECLINE! No, you fucking dumbass, there are always design decisions to be made, and this is one of them.

And if I don't like a specific design decision I guess I should keep my mouth shut because game development is a complex process, corners have to be cut, developers are hard working people with mouths to feed etc. Except I don't care about any of that stuff, all I care about is whether the end product is to my liking.

I almost wonder why people like this bother playing new games at all. Do you want the same experience every fucking time, just with different lore and different character systems? Just keep playing the old games then, Jesus H. Christ. Spare the rest of us your histrionics.

Replaying old shit for the 100th time gets well... old after a while (even when heavily modded), not to mention that Obsidian got 4 million on the account of people loving all those ancient, outdated IE games so delivering a similar experience is expected of them.

That said, while I love Arcanum and Fallout I don't agree with people expecting that amount of reactivity, freedom, C&C, branching quests etc. from a game that is supposed to be an IE successor. If they wanted another Fallout instead of another BG2 they shouldn't have backed PoE, simple as that.

 

[Lhynn]

Sure, but you treat it more as a symptom than as a disease. Which is why there are so many people that are expecting the game to be shit, too many drops add up.
Still, it hasnt been confirmed on PE, and im talking more about games in general.

Edit: also, someone should brofist the fuck out of zagor, he explains it in a way i can only wish i could most of the times.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Sure, but not being able to kill shopkeepers won't be to the detrament of the game in any way. It can still be reactive.

Depends on whom you ask, some people would view it as a way of limiting player's freedom in the way that IE games didn't. Of course we don't even know if it will be possible or not yet.

Personally I don't care that strongly about it, while it's fun to go on a rampage once in a while it's certainly something I can live without. What I'd really like to see improved upon IE games is a possibility of having a proper evil playthrough (self serving evil kind not Bioware psychotic) and more faction play (not focus on it to the degree that for example FNV and Gothic games obviously but it would be nice if it was there in some form), I don't mind if I can't kill shopkeepers/townsfolk but give me something more to kill other than the usual evil monsters, wizards, brigands and dragons, don't make it black and white.