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Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

Wise Emperor

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Meh

I'm quite certain they are aiming at the bigger audience(Bio and Bethesda fans) to chip in some money, after couple of months they will clarify everything and say "well, we weren't happy with level scaling and cooldown mechanics so we reverted back to our previous ideas straight form IE games".

Chillax bros, everything will turn out ok.
 

Volrath

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I dunno maybe that's because a few weeks ago, Sawyer was not even opening his mouth on design publically en masse, and people couldn't read some of the absolutely fucking retarded things he has to say? Like, say, his ramblings about "rogues being redundant because of levitation and invisibility spells" or how "resting is a toxic mechanic" because lul hey it's impossible to limit it properly amirite, like in say KotC and Frayed Knights that have been developed in some fucking basements by amateurs, better introduce cooldowns they are much more balanced and visceral. If a red flag was not popping up in your head each time you read his posts about design there's something really fucking wrong with you, simple as that.

No more fucking free rides.
Sawyer has been this way since the IPLY days, so in that way he's pretty consistent.
 

FeelTheRads

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Well, in that case their pitch of taking the best from BG, IWD and Torment was just fucking retarded hyperbolic marketing bs and only those who believed that will actually happen claimed Obsidian is the "messiah" of RPGs.
 

Kz3r0

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You guys are such a bitchy fucking drama queens that it's unbelievable. One moment they are The Messiah of RPGs and after one comment they are even worse than Bioware. They haven't even decided yet what kind of magic system they are using.
:hmmm:
Tell me again how welt thought this project was.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
A wild grotsnik appears!

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60...s-a-combat-mechanic/page__st__40#entry1218828


J. Sawyer's talk about 'going in blind' being a negative, being forced to reload, etc, as a strike against memorising spells, seems slightly wrongheaded. I think someone mentioned earlier the idea of giving the player signals about what lay ahead, but it doesn't even have to be that explicit. The D & D player party wanders into an ancient temple filled with many-eyed statues. 'Aha,' thinks the player who's both engaged in the world and actively planning ahead, 'I should prepare for beholders. Let's head back to that old gypsy caravan and pick up some scrolls/open up my mage's spellbook and figure out how to counter them/maybe try and recruit that mad old wizard back at the inn so I have some scope'. Perhaps a local villager has the head of one of the local monsters on their wall; perhaps the local library contains scribblings about viable tactics against such beasts. If your party's about to face a central villain, presumably they've heard a little or seen a little about the spells and defences they're likely to use. There's absolutely no reason, in short, why memorised spells should lead to save-scumming or blind guesswork, so long as the encounter and dungeon design is good, and as long as the world is communicating with the player. That's not an inherent problem with the system.

A great joy of the RPG genre always has been the play on heading into the place of relative safety in order to prepare for the place of danger. The party returns to town/rests in the wilds/heads for the local temple, and prepares themselves as much as humanly possible for whatever challenge they believe they're coming up against next - they build up their resources, then carefully expend and conserve them as they enter the dangerous places (You fool! You just wasted your one Cataclysm spell on that Feeble Earthworm! etc). Memorising spells works splendidly with that dichotomy, though as we've seen here you can then get into concerns about the ease of resting, etc, and can even subvert it for genuine desperate thrills (aargh, we've just been ambushed with no healing spells left, how will the Heroes of Bummington get out of this scrape?) whereas cooldowns, depending on how they're implemented, can kill it stone dead.

With cooldowns, the town/camp/tavern/temple/safe-place loses the entire core of its identity. You lose the sense of relief as you limp back into the cobbled streets of Thingy - why would you be relieved? Your spells are all ready and waiting once again; your party's main requirement is now to survive battle-to-battle, not to survive long enough to reach that place of safety or to be able to rest. The only real remaining purpose of the non-dungeon-area is to serve as a shop/loot-storage-area; it's merely functional, it's no longer a blessing. And actually, it's interesting that the cooldown-based Dragon Age games were forced to try and invent dubious reasons to try and keep the safety/danger dichotomy relevant (you have to rest in-camp, because dying in combat can sometimes give you a small HP reduction that can only be removed in camp! You have to go home because you're not allowed to talk to your party members outside of home, for some reason!) before giving up entirely and making the town itself a dungeon; every time you step outside, thirty muggers attack you. Once you're done killing them, the merchants standing around will become selectable again. Something very special is lost in the process here.

:salute:
 

groke

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SAVE THIS CHARACTER? NO.
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera BattleTech I'm very into cock and ball torture
I find it hilarious that you're all clamouring over how a goddamn BG clone isn't going to be old-school enough. Baldur's fucking Gate wasn't oldschool enough, it was RTwP popamole decline with immature romance shit and BIOWARE-FUNNY companions, like fucking Minsc. Cooldowns or not, this game does not have to be great to be better than BG.
 

FeelTheRads

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J. Sawyer's talk about 'going in blind' being a negative, being forced to reload, etc, as a strike against memorising spells, seems slightly wrongheaded

More like bullheaded. Typical "why fix it when you can remove it completely?" next-gen attitude. Not that it actually needed fixing, but simply proper encounter design.
 

Volrath

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Well, in that case their pitch of taking the best from BG, IWD and Torment was just fucking retarded hyperbolic marketing bs and only those who believed that will actually happen claimed Obsidian is the "messiah" of RPGs.
I don't see how combining the exploration aspect of BG, the tactical combat of IWD and the writing and tone of PST could come across as hyperbolic. This is what I expected them to be capable of (and still expect to some degree) given the talent that's working on it.
 

Kz3r0

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You don't think it's fair? The "messiah" was based on shit they've said. The worse than Bioware is based on shit they've said. Seems pretty fair to me.
You missed that they are the guys that made almost all the RPGs the Codex loves.
 

Jarpie

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You guys are such a bitchy fucking drama queens that it's unbelievable. One moment they are The Messiah of RPGs and after one comment they are even worse than Bioware. They haven't even decided yet what kind of magic system they are using.
:hmmm:
Tell me again how welt thought this project was.

I'd say well enough. They need a budget before they can scope that how big the game will be so they won't have to rewrite the story, ruleset and design if they get higher or lower budget (pledges) than they originally thought they would get. Their thinking is probably:
"If we get higher budget, we can put in more abilities and spells, and with lower budget we have to put fewer abilities and spells.

With fewer spells and abilities we might need to use this and this kind of system but if we can put more then we can use this and this system".

If they would've first set up the story, design and ruleset for certain scope/size of the game, they would most probably need to re-think and remake them and it would just be unnecessary work - this way they can accurately scope and write the game depending on the budget.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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I find it hilarious that you're all clamouring over how a goddamn BG clone isn't going to be old-school enough. Baldur's fucking Gate wasn't oldschool enough, it was RTwP popamole decline with immature romance shit and BIOWARE-FUNNY companions, like fucking Minsc. Cooldowns or not, this game does not have to be great to be better than BG.
I guess the source of their gullibility was the fact that, although all you say is correct, BG2 is still a much better game than all the crap that Obsidian managed to regurgitate put together. How they came to a conclusion that Obsidian, considering their track record, are capable of creating a game of similar quality is another matter...
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Obsidian has (thus far) failed to recreate DF and W2's mid-period pledge jump:
khZsw.png
DI69I.png
 

Mortmal

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Theres something really worrying me reading obsidian forums , its not the amount of trolling , its rather that saywer seems really enthusiastic about D&D 4E, everyone i know ditched that gaming system and went pathfinder instead. 4E is a symbol of mainstreaming and casualisation,excel spreadsheet , overbalanced classes, dull magic and spellcasters with few spell selection. A mage is pretty much like a thief doing dps with magic missile instead . 4E is world of warcraft on paper and some of the most boring gaming sessions i had .
 

J_C

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With cooldowns, the town/camp/tavern/temple/safe-place loses the entire core of its identity. You lose the sense of relief as you limp back into the cobbled streets of Thingy - why would you be relieved? Your spells are all ready and waiting once again; your party's main requirement is now to survive battle-to-battle, not to survive long enough to reach that place of safety or to be able to rest. The only real remaining purpose of the non-dungeon-area is to serve as a shop/loot-storage-area; it's merely functional, it's no longer a blessing. And actually, it's interesting that the cooldown-based Dragon Age games were forced to try and invent dubious reasons to try and keep the safety/danger dichotomy relevant (you have to rest in-camp, because dying in combat can sometimes give you a small HP reduction that can only be removed in camp! You have to go home because you're not allowed to talk to your party members outside of home, for some reason!) before giving up entirely and making the town itself a dungeon; every time you step outside, thirty muggers attack you. Once you're done killing them, the merchants standing around will become selectable again. Something very special is lost in the process here.


That is actually true, and the reason why I'd like them to not use cooldown. But if they do, I trust them to implement it well. I won't rage.
 

Semper

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The only crafting that I really enjoyed is the one in BG2 where you could find parts of unique items and get a talented smith to forge them into a unique item. But I doubt this is what they're thinking.

at least this will be in too. now they've to manage to balance their base crafting system around legendary items; e.g. crafting should be there to only create some basic stuff, masterworks, minor potions etc.

Feargus said:
Yep, that was a cool system in BG2. I think we are going to have two systems - the building of things like that, which are almost quest based in a way and then the more systems based crafting as well.
 

J_C

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Obsidian has (thus far) failed to recreate DF and W2's mid-period pledge jump:
khZsw.png
No need to worry (I hope). They managed to keep a nice straight line so far. But if they want to compete with DFA, they need some increase, because the current trend will lead under DFA's line. Personally I predict the end result between the two graphs.
 

Utgard-Loki

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how can anyone not vote TOEE in that poll?

and those fucks that voted baldurs gate 2 can fuck right off.

edit: jesus christ. 6 people seriously voted for dragon age. we require showers and ovens.
 

J_C

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how can anyone not vote TOEE in that poll?

and those fucks that voted baldurs gate 2 can fuck right off.

edit: jesus christ. 6 people seriously voted for dragon age. we require showers and ovens.
BG2 would be my 2nd choice. :troll: But I voted ToEE.
 

Jarpie

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Obsidian has (thus far) failed to recreate DF and W2's mid-period pledge jump:
khZsw.png
No need to worry (I hope). They managed to keep a nice straight line so far. But if they want to compete with DFA, they need some increase, because the current trend will lead under DFA's line. Personally I predict the end result between the two graphs.

They need something big, modtools or Ziets should do it.
 

J_C

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I don't know about Ziets. He is awesome, but how many people outside the Codex and RPGWatch really knows him and his work?
 

IronicNeurotic

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Obsidian has (thus far) failed to recreate DF and W2's mid-period pledge jump:

They also managed to keep interest up nicely during the entire campagin so far. Something DFA and W2 failed to do (Actually making DFA's jump near worthless in comparison). Which means their update policy worked.

Though, yes. I think if they announced modtools or Ziets this has the potential to jump quite a bit.
 

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