Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Tigranes

You guys have sorted topics into the wrong forums. There's stuff in "Widgets and Bytes" that belongs in "Game Mechanics" and stuff in "Game Mechanics" that belongs in General Discussion.

Also, what spoilers?

 

[Grunker]

You're acting like this is news to you. We've known that from day one. Why the fuck are you even paying attention to this thread if an Infinity Engine spiritual successor is anathema to you?

Why are you replying to Black? Basically his only purpose on the 'dex is to follow RTwP games he doesn't like and drop one-liners about how we all are suckers for enjoying them.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's only tunnel-vision if it's bad and stays in (in that case it would be "not considering player experience over a design idea"). Right now it's "I think this is the best solution for this particular game."

Myeah, he said that waiting would cause "waiting-spam" and he doesn't want that so he's also considering instant recharge after combat. He has no idea about how it would work, but he keeps pushing it. Sounds like tunnel-vision to me.

Keep in mind that Roguey probably also believes that Sawyer is "deadset" on being Roguey's boyfriend after he makes this game.

Yes, you can smell Roguey's pheromones over the internet. It's quite vomitous really.

 

[Jasede]

Good evening all,

I'd like to take a few minutes to discuss a few things. The goal/vision of this project is to capture the magic (old school feeling) of the Infinity Engine games. Many of the long time folks at Obsidian are just as big of fans of old school RPGs as you are. We are not interested in "capturing the biggest market" or making a game that "caters to everyone" for this title. We just want to make the best possible PC RPG we can, that lives up to the vision I stated above. Those games did very well for the publishers of their day, and since we don't need to deal with a publisher and are going direct, we are more than happy to ship this game to a smaller fan base, i.e. you.

This bears repeating. We want to capture the OLD SCHOOL feeling of the Infinity Engine games. We know the lack of cinematic dialogue or using an isometric camera is not enough to accomplish this. This obviously doesn't mean we are making a BG or IWD clone, however. We want it to feel like those games... with improvements. Not to stream-line it or dumb it down, just to make it better.

I'd like to share a good example of this philosophy from the 3rd edition D&D rules. In the olden days, classes in D&D leveled at different rates. Rogues leveled faster than everyone else and wizards were the slowest, others fell somewhere in the middle. This was built into the system and each class had different xp requirements for each level. Without getting into why the old systems did this, most people hated it. Of course there was a die-hard fan base that thought it was great. When WoTC released 3rd edition they got rid of it... or did they?

I'm using a pen and paper example here because not all of the CRPGs that used the system implemented this. If you played a rogue and disarmed a trap (without anyone aiding you), you got extra xp. Looking at the rules as written (RAW) in the DMG, that character overcame a CR challenge alone. Doing so gains quite a bit of XP and if the DM allowed this, caused a rogue to level much faster than any other class.

Conversely, the Wizard received the Scribe Scroll feat for free at 1st level. If you wanted to be ready for any situation, you crafted scrolls and memorized your core spells. Crafting scrolls (and any other magic item) cost XP, sometimes A LOT of it. Result: every wizard I ever played, played with, or DMed, leveled slower than everyone else. This was now a player choice to level slowly and he was rewarded for it. IMO, this is MUCH better design that accomplished the same thing in most cases as the old system.

These are the types of designs we are striving to implement into PE. We want this game to feel like the games you loved, while not implementing clearly poor design choices. Much like our community, many of us on the team are passionate about certain aspects of RPG design. I tend to fall into the hardcore, old school, group. Part of my job is to be the voice for that community (I've championed turn-based combat on multiple occasions). I know what you guys don't want. Josh and I have discussed this on multiple occasions and I have every confidence in his vision.

Lastly, nothing is currently set it stone. Game development doesn't typically work that way. This will be an evolving process to get us to the goal of making a great strategy system, that feels "real" if that makes sense. Josh's vision of combat will get input from a lot of folks that have a lot of experience in playing and making RPGs. We'll get it right.

I for one am a sucker and feel vaguely reassured.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Actually, if you stop to thing about it, whatever his thoughts on magic may be and whether you like them or not, Mr. Sawyer is being a real bro.

He's being a bro by actually responding (like an ass half the time) to the people FUNDING his fucking game? Bitch please.

 

[Jasede]

I'm just as, let's use the word the subhumans call us, "entitled" as you, TwinkieGorilla, but the man has better things to do. We can't really expect to have much input in their game. If we did we'd be a publisher- and that's what we wanted in the first place: free Obsidian from the influence of a publisher. Hope for the best, expect the worst, keep yelling to exert a vague change direction. No matter how it turns out, it'll be great fodder for the Codex either way.

I wouldn't reply to you assclowns at all because I'd be too busy making the game I want to make. He was probably just riding an elevator and bored.

 

[hoverdog]

 

[Lord Andre]

Expecting more damage control statements like the one from Bobby Null.
Drama aside, I don't think Sawyer actually wants to dumb the game down. More like he was toying with the idea of cooldowns and didn't have the time to consider all the drawbacks. The strong reaction from the community raised some questions on the issue so hopefully an improvement is inevitable. Even if they keep cooldowns the actual implementation should be less dragon agey because of it.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I'm just as, let's use the word the subhumans call us, "entitled" as you, TwinkieGorilla, but the man has better things to do. We can't really expect to have much input in their game. If we did we'd be a publisher- and that's what we wanted in the first place: free Obsidian from the influence of a publisher. Hope for the best, expect the worst, keep yelling to exert a vague change direction. No matter how it turns out, it'll be great fodder for the Codex either way.

I wouldn't reply to you assclowns at all because I'd be too busy making the game I want to make. He was probably just riding an elevator and bored.

First, I pulled my pledge. I'm not entitled to anything. Second, I wouldn't think I was even if I hadn't. Third, that wasn't my point.

My point was if you are depending on the money of others in order to fund your project, discussing things with your backers is not being a "bro" it's being "smart". Acting like a smug cunt about it half the time is also not being a "bro".

 

[Hobo Elf]

Nah, Sawyer probably genuinely believes that cooldowns are a good mechanic. I mean look at the man. He's practically a 4E evangelist.

 

[Black]

Acting like a smug cunt about it half the time is also not being a "bro".

You only think that because you're entitled.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Do you think level scaling is a good idea?

Not usually. Sometimes a certain amount of scaling is good for the critical path when there's a lot of side content. Players can weave in and out of the critical path a lot, so it's very hard to predict when they're going to tackle any given point on the path. For side content, I usually don't think it should be scaled at all.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

You only think that because you're entitled.

Ha. No.

 

[Grunker]

Actually, if you stop to thing about it, whatever his thoughts on magic may be and whether you like them or not, Mr. Sawyer is being a real bro.

He's being a bro by actually responding (like an ass half the time) to the people FUNDING his fucking game? Bitch please.

This.

 

[Infinitron]

Do you think level scaling is a good idea?

Not usually. Sometimes a certain amount of scaling is good for the critical path when there's a lot of side content. Players can weave in and out of the critical path a lot, so it's very hard to predict when they're going to tackle any given point on the path. For side content, I usually don't think it should be scaled at all.

Link goddammit.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/377739191313784966

 

[wormix]

I'll be interested how Josh handles tomorrows update on class design, because surely some of that will have to do with the spell and combat system, right

 

[Cynic]

you mean "more shit". if in your book walking back and forth between empty locations is "challenging" you need your head checked

Read my replies and choke on your semen stained tongue newfag.

 

[Nigro]

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/377732068114710756

 

[Alex]

He's being a bro by actually responding (like an ass half the time) to the people FUNDING his fucking game? Bitch please.

He was being a bro for responding to it quickly and remaining on the discussion even as it got very confusing. Try to see it a bit from his point of view. A lot of people are making different points all over the place, a few of which had already, you hoped, been explained as not the case earlier in the thread. You are not allowed to make any big announcement, the topic people are talking about isn't yet set, but they will take anything you say as to be a definite confirmation of what will or won't be in.

Most devs would have stopped the thread saying it could be argued back again when they had decided about a system and then let it reopen only after the issue was decided. Of course, then it would be too late to argue. I don't know if we can make him change his mind about anything, but at the very least he seems to be keeping a honest dialog open with us. This is, I think, pretty nice on his part.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Most devs would--

Most devs with a Kickstarter Project would do what they could, within their means, not to piss off the people funding their project. Period.

 

[catfood]

Most devs would--

Most devs with a Kickstarter Project would do what they could, within their means, not to piss off the people funding their project. Period.

You can please some people some of the time etc etc.

Not that I'm trying to defend Sawyer, but this idea that he shouldn't piss off the backers is retarded because no matter what you say and do SOMEONE is going to get butthurt about it. Period.

 

[Volrath]

Most devs would--

Most devs with a Kickstarter Project would do what they could, within their means, not to piss off the people funding their project. Period.

Already forgotten Fargo's social debacle?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Not that I'm trying to defend Sawyer

And I'm not attacking him (beyond the fact that he could soften the cunty tone). All I'm saying is appearing in threads is what he should be doing. There's nothing special or awesome about it.

Already forgotten Fargo's social debacle?

Are you talking about him floating ideas around to see what people thought? How is this even slightly comparable or even within the same realm of discussion?

 

[Jaesun]

Why are you so butthurt over Sawyer?

So Sawyer spoke to a couple people out of the 50,000+ people who are supporting this game, and provided some answers (and basically was using that as a way to gather feedback).

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Why are you so butthurt over Sawyer?

Um, I'm not?