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Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
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Tigranes

You guys have sorted topics into the wrong forums. There's stuff in "Widgets and Bytes" that belongs in "Game Mechanics" and stuff in "Game Mechanics" that belongs in General Discussion.

Also, what spoilers? :lol:

I wasn't awake for that, I'll have a look though. Thanks.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Tigranes

You guys have sorted topics into the wrong forums. There's stuff in "Widgets and Bytes" that belongs in "Game Mechanics" and stuff in "Game Mechanics" that belongs in General Discussion.

Also, what spoilers? :lol:

I wasn't awake for that, I'll have a look though. Thanks.

I would do it like this:

General Discussion <-- Anything related to story, art, characters, setting (maybe you could rename the board, though chances are this is what most people want to discuss so steering them to a "general" board may be a good idea)
Game Mechanics <-- Anything related to RPG systems and rules
Engine & Technology <-- Obvious (though TBH this board seems kind of useless)
 

Jaesun

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yeah the Engine & Technology seems odd. What are we going to ask? OBSIDIAN CAN YOU MAKE SHINY SPARKALIES OVER MY SWORD!??!!?
 

Volrath

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Are you talking about him floating ideas around to see what people thought? How is this even slightly comparable or even within the same realm of discussion?
Floating ideas around? He was as giddy as a school girl when he announced that feature on his kickstarter page, the following amount of butthurt was enormous and pledges actually evaporated to zero. He had to retract it because of it. Obsidian has not generated nearly as much butthurt as that.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Y'know...the worst part is I made my point in the same post where I quoted you last and you chose to either ignore it or shove it up yer arsetube if you ain't seein' it.
 

Jaesun

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Good evening all,

I'd like to take a few minutes to discuss a few things. The goal/vision of this project is to capture the magic (old school feeling) of the Infinity Engine games. Many of the long time folks at Obsidian are just as big of fans of old school RPGs as you are. We are not interested in "capturing the biggest market" or making a game that "caters to everyone" for this title. We just want to make the best possible PC RPG we can, that lives up to the vision I stated above. Those games did very well for the publishers of their day, and since we don't need to deal with a publisher and are going direct, we are more than happy to ship this game to a smaller fan base, i.e. you.

This bears repeating. We want to capture the OLD SCHOOL feeling of the Infinity Engine games. We know the lack of cinematic dialogue or using an isometric camera is not enough to accomplish this. This obviously doesn't mean we are making a BG or IWD clone, however. We want it to feel like those games... with improvements. Not to stream-line it or dumb it down, just to make it better.

I'd like to share a good example of this philosophy from the 3rd edition D&D rules. In the olden days, classes in D&D leveled at different rates. Rogues leveled faster than everyone else and wizards were the slowest, others fell somewhere in the middle. This was built into the system and each class had different xp requirements for each level. Without getting into why the old systems did this, most people hated it. Of course there was a die-hard fan base that thought it was great. When WoTC released 3rd edition they got rid of it... or did they?

I'm using a pen and paper example here because not all of the CRPGs that used the system implemented this. If you played a rogue and disarmed a trap (without anyone aiding you), you got extra xp. Looking at the rules as written (RAW) in the DMG, that character overcame a CR challenge alone. Doing so gains quite a bit of XP and if the DM allowed this, caused a rogue to level much faster than any other class.

Conversely, the Wizard received the Scribe Scroll feat for free at 1st level. If you wanted to be ready for any situation, you crafted scrolls and memorized your core spells. Crafting scrolls (and any other magic item) cost XP, sometimes A LOT of it. Result: every wizard I ever played, played with, or DMed, leveled slower than everyone else. This was now a player choice to level slowly and he was rewarded for it. IMO, this is MUCH better design that accomplished the same thing in most cases as the old system.

These are the types of designs we are striving to implement into PE. We want this game to feel like the games you loved, while not implementing clearly poor design choices. Much like our community, many of us on the team are passionate about certain aspects of RPG design. I tend to fall into the hardcore, old school, group. Part of my job is to be the voice for that community (I've championed turn-based combat on multiple occasions). I know what you guys don't want. Josh and I have discussed this on multiple occasions and I have every confidence in his vision.

Lastly, nothing is currently set it stone. Game development doesn't typically work that way. This will be an evolving process to get us to the goal of making a great strategy system, that feels "real" if that makes sense. Josh's vision of combat will get input from a lot of folks that have a lot of experience in playing and making RPGs. We'll get it right.

Where is this quote from?
 

almondblight

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Aug 10, 2004
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2,562
I don't see how they can square the sales pitch of an IE-like experience with the short game length and completely different feel that would come out of all set piece design. If IE games/NWN2 weren't alternating fields and corridors of abject trash fights they would be like 1/4th the length after you shrank down the maps to fit around what was left. With this budget of design manpower they could not come close to hammering out enough stand alone, unlimited resource fights in between all the other shit they need to get done. They need a system that will take the edge off of IE-like maps full of trash fights by contextualizing them.

Well, they could keep filler combat and just make it more difficult too. In theory, that wouldn't make much sense because filler combat is supposed to drain a parties resources, but again, that usually isn't handled well outside of rogue likes.

Of course, getting rid of trash fights all together would be the best approach, but if they keep them in then combat is going to be bad either way. For all the praise the the IE games get for combat, it seemed like 90% of the combat was against trash mobs that took little strategy to beat (this got better as the games progressed, though), and didn't do much in the way of draining resources. The other 10%, for me, was divided between some encounters that actually took some thought to get through, and other ones, like against the dragons, where I just summoned every damn thing I could, buffed everyone with everything I could, then watched my fighters bounce around the room as my mages through everything they could against the dragon. It was amusing, sure, but I can't say that I used much strategy.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Still lots of people with tunnel vision itt :lol:

"Bawwwwwww bring back resting"
"But there is resting."
"Bawwwwwww I'm going to have a knee-jerk reaction to this other extremely vague idea you have that might turn out well after proper prototyping/playtesting"
Way to miss the point Roguey. We don't want resting; we want an intelligent mechanic for managing magic. Cooldowns are less intelligent than resting. If someone comes up with a better system, we'd be happy to jump on that.

"RPG Codex" is arguing against "player's experience" in favor of their "expectation" so no, they aren't. :) Sawyer's already deadset on trying the spells-recharge-between-battles-via-cooldown idea, and if it doesn't make it in it'll be because it sucked, not because several dozen people told him they hate cooldowns.
No we are arguing for player experience. Cooldowns are so rarely fun or interesting it might as well be never.
 

Lord Andre

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From reading the threads at Obsidian, I understand that we old-school dudes (mostly posters from the codex) are standing in the way of progress because of nostalgia.

I applaud guys like Infinitron who have the patience to lay out a counter-argument to such blatant cretinism instead of raging at the dumbfucks.
 
Joined
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Messages
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From reading the threads at Obsidian, I understand that we old-school dudes (mostly posters from the codex) are standing in the way of progress because of nostalgia.

I applaud guys like Infinitron who have the patience to lay out a counter-argument to such blatant cretinism instead of raging at the dumbfucks.
:notsureifserious:
 
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notsureifserious

Yes, serious. Some people actually make good points. Infinitron for example. Must be hard to see when you're a rampaging fanboy who's only argument is: OBSIDIAN DOES GOOD OBSIDIAN DOES BEST
I wasn't sure if Andre made a serious comment on his first sentence, but I do agree that Infinitron is asking great questions and possibly making Obsidian consider other paths to create the game. I am not a pure Obsidian Fanboy, I just don't get why some people just go edgy(Yes I know it's the Codex:smug:) instead of giving constructive criticism.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Thanks guys, but really I'm far from the best Codexian poster on those boards. I'm always envious of people who can pump out well-researched walls of text, such as Alex.
 
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Messages
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Thanks guys, but really I'm far from the best Codexian poster on those boards. I'm always envious of people who can pump out well-researched walls of text, such as Alex.

It's because you are being more middle ground and finding out the important aspects (such as the magic system, cool downs, etc) without being either a rampant fanboy or someone who overreacts to every single little news.

Imagine if the first arcanum went through kickstarter, I wonder how the Codex would have handled that pitch and the systems involved :lol:
 

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