Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[skuphundaku]

why? special sucks.

Because I prefer classless systems over class-based systems. I'm not saying "I want SPECIAL" (that would be retarded because I don't want them to get involved with Bethesda in order to get the license) but "I want something like SPECIAL/derived from GURPS/GURPS-like while taking care not to fuck GURPS up too much/classless system of any kind, really, as long as it fits your setting like a glove".

 

[Infinitron]

Josh Sawyer comments in this thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60011-what-mold-should-be-broken/

We've got a crowdfunded project with many many rpg veterans chipping in. I'm ready for some innovation and experiments. Here are some features of my imaginary, perfect 'Project Eternity', add your own below!

• Resting

Spells/abilities regenerate instead of becoming unavailable after use until the party rests. The party acts at 100% efficiency when well rested, but gradually becomes more vulnerable and loses effectiveness in all skills when tired. Spells not only cost mana, but tire casters independently. The same holds true for physical skills without consuming mana. The party can rest anywhere to regain up to e.g. 50% efficiency, but can only recuperate to 100% in designated resting areas.

• Familiar:

As a tactical asset, it can spy, explore, steal, poison, play tricks etc. either on enemies/neutrals or companions. It's got character (I always thought Morte was a good familiar, if overpowered as a fighter.)
It's not an ugly beetle.

• Dialogue

Regular people share parts of a huge knowledge pool. Besides the traditional dialogue window, a kind of "google autocomplete searchbox" displays possible questions relating to the key words typed in.
E.g. "Mr. X" would permit the questions: "What do you know about Mr. X?", "Where does Mr. X live?", etc.

• Choices

Some painful, some impossible, and some to be proud of

Example: "You paid dearly for doing the right thing. As a child slave, you decide to help a friend avoid punishment. You get caught and your hand is chopped off in retribution. Later on, you can't use bows and 2h-weapons. Furthermore, the wound is a stigma of a caught and convicted petty thief."
In the later game, those friends' actions have special significance to the player, and create immersion. If later on a magic liquid metal hand that restores lost abilities, can shapeshift and execute killmoves happens to be found, it'll be enjoyed all the more.
On the other hand, any injury can be avoided by not helping the friend in the first place.

Not paying attention makes it easy to inadvertently go down the wrong path. You want to be a good guy? Be prepared to swallow rage and forsake the satisfaction of vengeance. Vigilante killings are recognized as such by society. It's not easy to be just, and almost impossible to entirely avoid being manipulated. Prudent choices such as "bringing someone in" instead of killing them outright are available. It's impossible to succeed every time, and players are confronted with moments of intense frustration.

• No guiding hand

An immersion breaker in modern games is the relentless pace. Not in Project Eternity. Here it is important to pay attention to the dialogue. Little is gained by following quest markers or checking objectives. Facts are recorded, but the player jots down his/her own conclusions in the journal next to them, and chooses his/her plan of action. The minimap is not a substitute for looking at where you are going, players need to familiarize themselves with the game world. Help is readily available by talking to people, but the right questions need to be asked. Superior solutions to quests apparent only with understanding and immersion are available next to regular endings.

• Mystery

The player is placed in a wondrous place, and is not all that powerful nor important. He/She isn't able to battle everything, and might need to run from a conflict without ever having a chance of besting an opponent. In PST the lady of pain set a great mood. Beating everything into submission does not solve anything, nor does it even seem a worthy endeavor.

• Themes

Philosophy is fun and fascinating. Kierkegaard and Hobbes inspire fascinating dark characters whose dispositions and actions give a special flair to this RPG. There is no arch enemy, per se, the player develops a philosophy he/she needs to see through.

• Combat

The trade-off for tactical mastery in turn based combat is the static feel. Especially during unchallenging encounters, parties approach each other, find the right distance, stop, and lose health until one dies.

Not in Project Eternity. To start with, enemies have hit boxes which can be individually targeted.
Moreover, terrain, obstacles, distance, position and stance are integrated as tactical elements. Attacks and spells can knock targets around.
More action oriented players such as myself appreciate timed active actions (block, parry, riposte/counter, chain...), although these are optional in the game menu.

Both classic rpg lovers and action oriented gamers appreciate differentiated combat stages, where party characters dynamically adjust their standard attack according to distance. Long range, mid range, and melee. A melee character needs to consider how to approach through a debuff focused mid range without penalty (by fog, evasion, cover, long range stun/knockdown...), thus making the "approach and hack" tactic less feasible.

Different armors equal different strengths and weaknesses. Weapon changes during combat are quick and necessary. Semi-scripted melee and spell combos bring joy to all (thief hamstrings an opponent from behind, fighter bashes his head in)

• Romance

During the last years games have opened up a lot in this respect. We saw more LBGT friendly interaction, and a lot more skin. Since all bases are covered in Project Eternity, a large cast of characters is needed. Most characters are regular boring heterosexuals, not that much interested in sex in any case, because immersion doesn't permit otherwise.

A true romance (and with good reason not everyone wants to go there) seeps out of the confines of dialogue. Combat changes, as do expectations from partner and party. Interaction is more frequent and natural. A darker side of romance is the power to influence/manipulate/control one's partner, and some evil bastards take advantage of that.

• Leveling

A Fallout approach is chosen in lieu of fixed classes. It's possible to pick up formerly unknown skills during the story which are not included in a skill tree/pool, and different types of equipment have unique actions.

• Toolset

Whatever wishes stay unfulfilled, a toolset brings them to life. Modders not only add or change content, they change gameplay, fix bugs and update graphics. A toolset for a game is the gift that keeps on giving. (Check out the oblivion/skyrim/fallout3/falloutnv nexus if you haven't already, it is insane what these people deliver)

BTW, these sorts of questions (and many have been asked in different threads) are the ones I think we're most interested in hearing your thoughts on. I certainly have my own opinions on things I'd like to change from the standard operating procedure (e.g. resting mechanics), but you folks are the customers.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Isn't Rashemen also inspired by Slavic mythology? Or is it just Minsc's accent.

Yeah, lots of Russian influence there I think. The barbarians in MOTB also have Slav names pretty often.

 

[Infinitron]

Stretch goals thread (important): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59965-stretch-goals/

Lots of retards asking for full voice acting stretch goal in there

Sound takes up a lot of memory. However the Infinity Engine games did have voice acting as said it was for the main characters and it does add immersion to the game. Modern games are using it more and more. The recording would be done towards the end of development. Eliminating voice acting would be going backwards and not forwards. I am sure the developers will come up with an acceptable balance.

The most important thing is to have a stable, bug free game which will not overload computers.

I would love to have 100% VO. I think that it makes a big difference in helping the player suspend disbelief and become fully immersed in the narrative. Games are an audio/ visual medium, which require the player to take direct control of an avatar in a simulated world where all of the sensory data is pre-produced by the developer. This arrangement functions best when the game world's basic mechanics replicate our expectations- we see and hear as we would in the real world. If you have a 3D world with sound effects etc which comply with this approach, but render dialogue as text, the result is a jarring subversion of expectations. This is why I don't think the book analogy is particularly helpful, since that medium expects almost all sensory experience to be generated internally by the reader.

I also feel there is a risk in using old fashioned game mechanics, even when they worked well in games we loved. The problem is that we become used to new standards as they develop in any product or service. For me, this happens to the extent that I now prefer not to go back and play my old games, because I know that my changed expectations mean that they won't live up to my memory of the original experience.

Of course, I think the counter argument has been made very well in this thread. I hope the devs can find a good position on the topic relative to cost and flexibility.

 

[Roguey]

I was wondering who would be first on my ignore list

I love how the number of users ignoring me almost always goes up after one of my Obsidian-thread posting sprees. It's funny because I consider myself a fan and I've purchased and enjoyed all their products to varying degrees (except NWN2 OC [oh and I haven't touched any DLC]). Can't handle tough love. Few can, come to think of it.

 

[Infinitron]

Meanwhile, on Formspring: http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer

thesisko pisses off Josh

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Come on, just a few lines for important events and get a sense of who a character is are more than enough.

 

[J_C]

Holy cow, they are almost at 1million. Is it possible that they will break Double Fine's record to the first million? DF needed 24 hours or so IRC.

 

[FeelTheRads]

CANT INTO IMMERSE WITOUT VOICE ATCING!111

 

[Roguey]

Would be ironic after being unable to make the game they want to make for years (lol) due to publishers, they'll now be unable to make the game they want to to make due to Kickstarter Biodrone customer majority demanding them to cater to their needs.

They made their bed when they decided to spam the words "Baldur's Gate" on their page. Is it an unintended result if they wanted the BG audience to begin with?

 

[Mother Russia]

No classes? FUCK THIS SHIT!!

 

[J_C]

I don't dare to read this topics, because they are full of retards, who want to turn Obsidians work into the new Dragon Age. Just like with Wasteland 2. They would probably make me rage, and feel depressed. They want the things we specifically fight against (3D over the shoulder graphics, full VO, shitty romances etc.)

 

[Infinitron]

There's actually relatively little demand for romance on the forum, for now. 3D OTS is out of the question, of course - the pitch video makes that very clear.

 

[ghostdog]

I imagine Obsidian already have an idea what type of system they want for the game, but this poll is important nonetheless I think: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59957-what-type-of-game-system/




It's a pitched battle between AD&D and SPECIAL now. Every vote counts.

At first I voted SPECIAL, because after the Underrail demo I'm replaying fallout and I'm having a blast.
But then I remembered that I also had a lot of fun with the AD&D implementation in BG and IWD and since it's going to be a party-based RPG, classes are better IMO. Class combinations make things more interesting. So, yeah, AD&D it is.

 

[Oesophagus]

Next year's gonna be interesting

 

[Whisky]

Stretch goals thread (important): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59965-stretch-goals/

Lots of retards asking for full voice acting stretch goal in there

Sound takes up a lot of memory. However the Infinity Engine games did have voice acting as said it was for the main characters and it does add immersion to the game. Modern games are using it more and more. The recording would be done towards the end of development. Eliminating voice acting would be going backwards and not forwards. I am sure the developers will come up with an acceptable balance.

The most important thing is to have a stable, bug free game which will not overload computers.

I would love to have 100% VO. I think that it makes a big difference in helping the player suspend disbelief and become fully immersed in the narrative. Games are an audio/ visual medium, which require the player to take direct control of an avatar in a simulated world where all of the sensory data is pre-produced by the developer. This arrangement functions best when the game world's basic mechanics replicate our expectations- we see and hear as we would in the real world. If you have a 3D world with sound effects etc which comply with this approach, but render dialogue as text, the result is a jarring subversion of expectations. This is why I don't think the book analogy is particularly helpful, since that medium expects almost all sensory experience to be generated internally by the reader.

I also feel there is a risk in using old fashioned game mechanics, even when they worked well in games we loved. The problem is that we become used to new standards as they develop in any product or service. For me, this happens to the extent that I now prefer not to go back and play my old games, because I know that my changed expectations mean that they won't live up to my memory of the original experience.

Of course, I think the counter argument has been made very well in this thread. I hope the devs can find a good position on the topic relative to cost and flexibility.

I said it once and I'll say it again. Full voice acting killed RPGs.

 

[Infinitron]

ONE MILLION

 

[asper]

Million reached.

 

[Turjan]

I'm not really into this whole Kickstarter mania, but this one is a project I really want to see finished, so I made my pledge. I'm pretty excited about the possibilities.

 

[octavius]

Shame about the combat being RTwP.
At least they're not using the DnD ruleset, so there's at least some hope that the combat system won't be a horrific clusterfuck.

Please name all those CRPGS that have better combat than the Gold Box game, Baldur's Gates, Icewind Dales, ToEE and Knights of the Chalice.

 

[SCO]

I'm pretty sure the combat is going to be a horrific clusterfuck anyway. That's what RTwP is.

 

[undecaf]

I hope they'll deliver. It'd feel like an unvoluntary cock un my mouth if they didn't now after I gave them the money and trust...

 

[Infinitron]

Playing dress-up is really important to me


http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60022-playing-dress-up-is-really-important-to-me/

I either need a character that is fully written (The Nameless One, Geralt) or I need an in-depth character creation system. I'm talking hair, makeup, and clothing. I can't begin to stress how important this is and I know I'm not the only one.

When I'm in town, I like to put on my fancy dress of +charisma and persuade the townsfolk to give up all their secrets and pay me to take their goods. When I'm out adventuring, I want to inspire awe in my foes. I want the glare off my armor to blind them for a moment. I want bandits to covet my fine, silken mage robes while I burn them to a crisp. I want to enchant a commoner's tunic with protective charms so that I may go unnoticed in a crowd.

And don't forget to accessorize! Jewelry and shoes pull the whole outfit together.

 

[Infinitron]

More retardation

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60021-party-size/

More party member mean more of everything: the world will have to be bigger, the town will have to have more population, the battles will have to involve more enemies... all of this means higher processing requirements, and if Obsidian is planning to make the game accessable to people with less powerful computer systems, it would mean the graphical quality of the game would have to be decreased.

And before anyone says that graphics don't matter: I'm not talking about decreasing the texture resolution or smoke effects, I'm talking about less different models, less viewing distance and less animations, and that's not something I would like to see omitted.

3-4 party members, main character included, are enough in my books. I'm more of a quality over quantity sort of guy anyway.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm not decline enough to be quoted?