Incline OSR Games - Official thread

[Grauken]

There's a distinction to be made between skill at arms and overwhelming force.

You only get Conan the Barbarian when you roll a critical success, otherwise you end up as Borat in loincloths

 

[ERYFKRAD]

There's a distinction to be made between skill at arms and overwhelming force.

You only get Conan the Barbarian when you roll a critical success, otherwise you end up as Borat in loincloths

If the success of the attempt is critical to my ends, then it's a critical success alright.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Also made Barbarians a official class.

"Fighter" and "Fighter/Thief" are all the classes you need for barbarians.

Barbarians, sir, are a class apart.

They are the same class just with one being more smelly than the other

There's a distinction to be made between skill at arms and overwhelming force.

In b/x just roleplay your fighter as smelly, illiterate and wearing furs. You now have a barbarian. The dice don't care if you are a trained slasher or just hit really hard. RP that too.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Ok caster

 

[nikolokolus]

Maybe a berserker is a class (or at least a distinct enough fighting style to make it 'not-a-fighter'), but the thing my mind conjures up when I hear "barbarian" isn't Conan, it's Goth, Thracian, Scythian, Sarmatian, Celt; Tribal people living on the Eurasian steppe, or the forests of western Europe that gave the Romans and Greeks so much trouble.

 

[HeroMarine]

Maybe a berserker is a class (or at least a distinct enough fighting style to make it 'not-a-fighter'), but the thing my mind conjures up when I hear "barbarian" isn't Conan, it's Goth, Thracian, Scythian, Sarmatian, Celt; Tribal people living on the Eurasian steppe, or the forests of western Europe that gave the Romans and Greeks so much trouble.

Actually when I hear Barbarian I think of Romans and Persians.

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

According to Master booklet, most of the undead are really fucking stupid, but some of the numbers seem really arbitrary - Spirits range from 12 to 14 Int, while Mummies are barely literate with their whooping 6 Int, Vampires get 10, Skeletons and Zombies are completely mindless (1), and Ghouls get 3 (why, I won't know). Anyway, limiting max Int and Wis for Skeletons, Ghouls, and Zombies makes complete sense to me - I aimed for 12, which is somewhat reasonable. An simple undead with average Intelligence/Wisdom should be somewhat rare. Should I allow the players to exchange points above 12 Int and Wis to be exchanged (at 2:1, maybe even 3:1 ratio) with Str, Dex, and Con?

 

[Blaza]

We now have 2 sessions into OSR with 2 Pathfinder players and 2 RPG newbies. We are running a houseruled Basic Fantasy RPG (with some class supplements) with elements from Adventurer Conqueror King. Mainly the economic stuff and various tables like the criminal organizations based on Market Class

The newbies are enjoying it way more than Pathfinder. They no longer sit there presumably feeling like retards because they don't know what to do. They've put the phones down and are very engaged. The Pathfinder players still bemoan no skill list (I allow them to pay to be trained in skills like Blacksmithing, etc but due to being poor they haven't yet) and they hate the classes don't have "mechanical personality" I've made some concessions on this. I gave the Barbarian class the ACKS Cleave. This means you can make another attack if your first attack kills an enemy. I am letting him do this until he fails to kill an enemy on a subsequent cleave. Fighters also get offensive/defensive stances giving a +2 to hit/-2 to ac and -2 to hit/+2 to ac respectively. Some other stuff too like going away with the phased b/x combat but that's not super interesting.

I'm loving that they are actively thinking of solutions that aren't combat. They've had 1 combat in these 2 sessions, and that's because they got a random encounter. They bypassed fighting a Kobold lair that was nuzzled in a canyon by bringing a shit ton of rope, waiting until night, and mission impossible-ing the halfling thief down the mountain to bring back the crates of loot. Was great.

A bit off topic but have to brag: My copy of ACKS got damaged in shipping. I sent an email to them about it asking if I contact them or the shipper. They replied within 2 hours and shipped me a new copy. Will definitely buy more of their stuff, I'm looking at the Player's Companion for the class and spell creation stuff.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

We now have 2 sessions into OSR with 2 Pathfinder players and 2 RPG newbies. We are running a houseruled Basic Fantasy RPG (with some class supplements) with elements from Adventurer Conqueror King. Mainly the economic stuff and various tables like the criminal organizations based on Market Class

The newbies are enjoying it way more than Pathfinder. They no longer sit there presumably feeling like retards because they don't know what to do. They've put the phones down and are very engaged. The Pathfinder players still bemoan no skill list (I allow them to pay to be trained in skills like Blacksmithing, etc but due to being poor they haven't yet) and they hate the classes don't have "mechanical personality" I've made some concessions on this. I gave the Barbarian class the ACKS Cleave. This means you can make another attack if your first attack kills an enemy. I am letting him do this until he fails to kill an enemy on a subsequent cleave. Fighters also get offensive/defensive stances giving a +2 to hit/-2 to ac and -2 to hit/+2 to ac respectively. Some other stuff too like going away with the phased b/x combat but that's not super interesting.

I'm loving that they are actively thinking of solutions that aren't combat. They've had 1 combat in these 2 sessions, and that's because they got a random encounter. They bypassed fighting a Kobold lair that was nuzzled in a canyon by bringing a shit ton of rope, waiting until night, and mission impossible-ing the halfling thief down the mountain to bring back the crates of loot. Was great.

A bit off topic but have to brag: My copy of ACKS got damaged in shipping. I sent an email to them about it asking if I contact them or the shipper. They replied within 2 hours and shipped me a new copy. Will definitely buy more of their stuff, I'm looking at the Player's Companion for the class and spell creation stuff.

Play b/x
"i roll to sense motive"

"we don't have most of the skill and perception checks in b/x. You actually have to figure out or guess their motive yourself."

"I wanna role for persuade"

"there's no skill roles for that. You have to actually persuade the NPC"

"Cool so what skill is persuade?"

"There is no persuade skill you actually have to roleplay."

"this game is too complicated for me"

I never liked AD&D starting the bad habit of players relying on skill checks rather than actually having to roll play and use IRL initiative. I get annoyed having to explain that constantly

 

[Blaza]

Play b/x
"i roll to sense motive"

"we don't have most of the skill and perception checks in b/x. You actually have to figure out or guess their motive yourself."

"I wanna role for persuade"

"there's no skill roles for that. You have to actually persuade the NPC"

"Cool so what skill is persuade?"

"There is no persuade skill you actually have to roleplay."

"this game is too complicated for me"

I never liked AD&D starting the bad habit of players relying on skill checks rather than actually having to roll play and use IRL initiative. I get annoyed having to explain that constantly

That's exactly what 2 of my players want while 2 where confused as to why they had to roll dice to persuade someone. Which is kinda surprising since one of the ones who like b/x more plays video games but likens TTRPGs more to role play chat servers that she was in all the time as a teenager.

Luckily my mechanically inclined bros picked up on it and haven't asked for any skill checks. Though we did do some roll-under str for the halfling pully system. They did seem surprised they got racial bonuses despite them not being listed. For instance I let the elf see further and pick up details the others didn't. His reaction was split between "Wait you gave me that for free?" and "I shouldn't mention it since it is to my advantage.." I also allowed the dwarf identify some alcohol based on taste when they where playing a game with a bartender.

I may not get them to be as enthusiastic as me but I am happy that they are enjoying it more than they thought they would. It also frees me from running Pathfinder..it is such a breath of fresh air to make dungeons and encounters that logically make sense rather than having to carefully balance every encounter so it's a totally fair wargame skirmish like I have for the past decade running Pathfinder.

 

[Alex]

We now have 2 sessions into OSR with 2 Pathfinder players and 2 RPG newbies. We are running a houseruled Basic Fantasy RPG (with some class supplements) with elements from Adventurer Conqueror King. Mainly the economic stuff and various tables like the criminal organizations based on Market Class

The newbies are enjoying it way more than Pathfinder. They no longer sit there presumably feeling like retards because they don't know what to do. They've put the phones down and are very engaged. The Pathfinder players still bemoan no skill list (I allow them to pay to be trained in skills like Blacksmithing, etc but due to being poor they haven't yet) and they hate the classes don't have "mechanical personality" I've made some concessions on this. I gave the Barbarian class the ACKS Cleave. This means you can make another attack if your first attack kills an enemy. I am letting him do this until he fails to kill an enemy on a subsequent cleave. Fighters also get offensive/defensive stances giving a +2 to hit/-2 to ac and -2 to hit/+2 to ac respectively. Some other stuff too like going away with the phased b/x combat but that's not super interesting.

I'm loving that they are actively thinking of solutions that aren't combat. They've had 1 combat in these 2 sessions, and that's because they got a random encounter. They bypassed fighting a Kobold lair that was nuzzled in a canyon by bringing a shit ton of rope, waiting until night, and mission impossible-ing the halfling thief down the mountain to bring back the crates of loot. Was great.

A bit off topic but have to brag: My copy of ACKS got damaged in shipping. I sent an email to them about it asking if I contact them or the shipper. They replied within 2 hours and shipped me a new copy. Will definitely buy more of their stuff, I'm looking at the Player's Companion for the class and spell creation stuff.

Play b/x
"i roll to sense motive"

"we don't have most of the skill and perception checks in b/x. You actually have to figure out or guess their motive yourself."

"I wanna role for persuade"

"there's no skill roles for that. You have to actually persuade the NPC"

"Cool so what skill is persuade?"

"There is no persuade skill you actually have to roleplay."

"this game is too complicated for me"

I never liked AD&D starting the bad habit of players relying on skill checks rather than actually having to roll play and use IRL initiative. I get annoyed having to explain that constantly

I am already oblivious in real life, and now you want me to be so in-game as well?

But, being serious, I do think you can use skills like these to give the players some kind of hint in case they don't catch on just through roleplay. Much like having a skill for disarming traps or finding hidden doors doesn't mean the players can't or shouldn't do those things in character; rather than just rolling.

 

[Blaza]

I am already oblivious in real life, and now you want me to be so in-game as well?

But, being serious, I do think you can use skills like these to give the players some kind of hint in case they don't catch on just through roleplay. Much like having a skill for disarming traps or finding hidden doors doesn't mean the players can't or shouldn't do those things in character; rather than just rolling.

I believe having a variety of skills to choose from like a shopping list encourages "builds" and puts the character personality on the back burner. It seems to make certain players gravitate towards "I want to play a social skill build" vs "I want to play a smooth talking dwarf". Someone thinking in terms of build would never choose a Dwarf for their smooth talking build because Dwarves have capped charisma.

I could be doing it "wrong" but I tend to just give out things in plain language to the players. Like the thief would notice the nervous shopkeeper fiddling with something, maybe a weapon, under the counter. Or the Fighter noticing that the leader of the bandit group uses a trained fighting stance indicating he may be a soldier or something.

 

[Alex]

I am already oblivious in real life, and now you want me to be so in-game as well?

But, being serious, I do think you can use skills like these to give the players some kind of hint in case they don't catch on just through roleplay. Much like having a skill for disarming traps or finding hidden doors doesn't mean the players can't or shouldn't do those things in character; rather than just rolling.

I believe having a variety of skills to choose from like a shopping list encourages "builds" and puts the character personality on the back burner. It seems to make certain players gravitate towards "I want to play a social skill build" vs "I want to play a smooth talking dwarf". Someone thinking in terms of build would never choose a Dwarf for their smooth talking build because Dwarves have capped charisma.

I could be doing it "wrong" but I tend to just give out things in plain language to the players. Like the thief would notice the nervous shopkeeper fiddling with something, maybe a weapon, under the counter. Or the Fighter noticing that the leader of the bandit group uses a trained fighting stance indicating he may be a soldier or something.

I see. That sounds like a nice way of doing it. I tend to consider the issue of how to separate character and player abilities a lot, actually; because it is something that I think can be done really well, but it can be difficult to see how sometimes. I mean, suppose a player wants to play as an investigator in some settings. Like, he is looking forward solving mysteries and puzzling together clues; so he makes a build* that focuses on that. If then it turns out investigating is just rolling the dice to get to the next segment of the adventure; he won't at all get what he wants; in fact he might be better off making a character who was clueless about this stuff. Which brings the other side of the question; a dumb (by stats, at least) character might figure out everything about a mystery because the player himself is not dumb (not to mention better able to see the bigger picture).

My point is that finding the right way to combine the player's and the character's skills, making the first one the focus without making the second one not matter is something that I think can be a bit difficult.

*Whatever "build" means in the system in question. It might be a simple as selecting a certain class, as complex as buying the right set of skills or just having the right backstory.

 

[Blaza]

My point is that finding the right way to combine the player's and the character's skills, making the first one the focus without making the second one not matter is something that I think can be a bit difficult.

This is definitely the biggest difficulty with TTRPGS. One of my current group always ends up playing the lead even if his character is dumb or otherwise unfit. But this happens because irl he is the one who corrals people in a direction, natural leader type guy. The girls in my group usually end up deferring to Leader Bro even if their characters are the kind to try and lead because they irl don't want to interrupt Leader Bro and irl they don't enjoy being decision makers.

I am not sure if you can resolve this with any kind of mechanics, I think it mainly depends on your players personalities and their role play ability/muscles and even the medium. I noticed one of the girls was much more assertive with her decision making when we experimented with a play by post whereas in person she would ensure everyone else had said their peace first.

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

Alright, fuck it, might as well ask here, because I'm retarded and hit a wall.
Let's take a look at BECMI's Mummy:

My general approach to playable undead is to make them "evolving", if that makes sense. For example, at 6th level, a Zombie becomes a "Zombie Lord" (straight from Ravenloft), with aura of [1d6 random effects] and 2 attacks/round. Does it make sense for Mummies to start with 1d6 attack damage without disease and then gradually move towards 1d12 damage+disease at 5th level, or am I just overthinking things?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I tend to consider the issue of how to separate character and player abilities a lot, actually; because it is something that I think can be done really well, but it can be difficult to see how sometimes.

I don't see how this is entirely a problem though, a smart player is gonna figure something out no matter what you throw at him anyway, player or character skill be damned.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Been re-writing my game. Things are going okay. I added spellcasting back in, since I found a way to make it less obnoxious and stupid.

 

[infidel]

Does it make sense for Mummies to start with 1d6 attack damage without disease and then gradually move towards 1d12 damage+disease at 5th level, or am I just overthinking things?

Are you always thinking in terms of more damage? What are the other neat things or problems that being a mummy gives the player?

 

[infidel]

Spoiler

 

[infidel]

Ok, not really OSR-related but I just couldn't think of what thread to post this in.

Spoiler

Hunting Knife Combined with Wheellock Pistol

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/21963

blade ca. 1528–29, etched with a calendar for the years 1529–34; barrel dated 1540 or 1546

etched with a calendar for the years 1529–34

Knowing what day it is today was v. important for your average monster hunter.

 

[Sacibengala]

Please, Raggi, Don't ever change.

 

[Morblot]

Unexpected incline? :D

 

[Bara]

Anyone play through or take a gander at In the shadow of tower silveraxe?

Need some things to stuff my map with and it seemed decent.

 

[Melan]

I have it on order, but it is still in transit.

 

[Sacibengala]

Please, Raggi, Don't ever change.

Raggi's response about of why he published this one (from lotfp facebook post ):

Here we go...
WHY I PUBLISHED... #4: Wight Power!
'allo all!
On October 25 we made 10 new releases available from https://www.lotfp.com/store/ ; eight for sale, and two freebies to entice purchase.
Packing and shipping from that initial avalanche of orders is DONE! But while there are other duties, I'm going to take a few minutes every day or five to explain why I decided to publish the items I did, and I will do so in order from what I expected to be the most generally acceptable to what I expect to be the most controversial.
Now coming in at #4... Wight Power!
First off, I want to say that this post is the opinion of the publisher, James Edward Raggi IV. The author has his own thoughts on his instagram page, the first post of which is here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVdNX4hJpuy/
Now this is at #4 in possible trouble for one reason: All the possible controversy is in the title. And the title is simply wordplay, since the adventure takes place on the Isle of Wight and one of the possible complications in the adventure is a reanimated corpse. And as naive as this may be, as much as I knew that people's knees were going to jerk hard at the title (I kept the title secret until it went on sale because I didn't want to catch all the shit without people being able to see the truth of the matter for themselves), I believe that what something is, is far more important for judging a thing, than what something could be mistaken for being. And I released things this time around, three of them in fact, that are substantively more subversive and disturbing in their actual contents than this book.
And there isn't anyone that's going to tell me that something so stupid as the concept and ideology behind "white power" is so important, that the words are so sacred, that wordplay and puns and generally goofing on it is some blasphemous act. Fuck off with that shit. I have no respect or reverence for "white power," either the words or the concept, and neither should you. I also have no respect for people who would insist that I should have respect for it, either the words or the concept, and neither should you.
And I don't know who needs to hear this, but "wight" and "white" are words with different origins and different meanings. Anyone who says they are the same thing is wrong, or is lying to you.
Anyone who has read any of the actual book and still says that the title is some sort of racist signal, or anyone who knows who the author Alex Mayo is and still says that the title is some sort of racist signal, is either a blithering imbecile, a vicious liar, and probably both.
But I know how people are. I know how the internet is. I knew that people were going to react to the title, I knew that most people don't look into things, I knew that certain people were going to assume the worst when they saw the title, and I knew that certain people were going to use the title as a weapon against LotFP, honesty be damned.
So then... why when Alex pitched me the title and concept along with a few others, was I immediately drawn to this one? Why would I volunteer for at the minimum being harassed by morons, and at worst being branded for all time (the association is only an internet search away!) as an absolutely horrible person (by those that don't already think that of me, of course)?
Because fuck you, that's why.
I'm going to break it down more than that of course, but that's basically it. Do we have the freedom to create or don't we? If we do, then fuck off and leave us to it. If we don't, then I don't want to be here anymore, in this job, on this Earth. It's the only thing that makes life bearable. I'll go out with middle fingers extended.
And I've felt kind of neutered the past couple years. I don't deal too well with real-world things. It's one reason why I enjoy fiction and art and publishing and all the things that occur in the mind and imagination and don't participate in the real world so much. So when Alex offered this to me, it felt like I was being confronted with Big Questions in Life.
Who am I? What do I believe in? Am I going to keep my head down and be scared of twitter rando opinion forever?
nah.
And I've told this story a bunch of times before, but it's relevant and worth repeating: One reason my tastes are as they are, one reason my tastes are as they are, one reason LotFP looks the way it does, is because of the Satanic Panic and general anti-D&D attitudes in the 80s. That devil-may-care 70s attitude towards presentation in the original books was simply superior, and they ruined most everything by watering down what they presented and how they encouraged their player base to water down their imaginations.
The forces today that want to bowdlerize creative work and sand down all the interesting edges and features aren't the same as the people who did so back then, but their influence and pressure is having the exact same effect. I don't have any respect for the people who put negative pressure to conform to certain views in the 80s, and I certainly don't have any respect for the people who are doing it now.
Your modern day Pat Pullings with their misdirected trauma, and your modern day Thomas Radeckis with their bullshit social theories about media, can all go eat shit. Leave people alone.
oohhhh trivia: When deciding how to reveal this book to the world during the release day livestream, I had something more fun in mind than just taking it out of a bag to show off the cover. The idea I had was to pretend like I had no idea how "wight" was pronounced. I was going to say I thought "wight" was Welsh in origin, and pronounce the word in that exaggerated Blackadder-phlegm-joke way. I'd say "Wicchhgt Power! It takes place on the Isle of Wicchhggt" and act completely clueless about it resembling a sinister phrase. But I didn't trust my acting ability to make it seem even remotely convincing, and I definitely didn't trust my ability to do it without cracking up.
And underneath the catchy title, there's one hell of an adventure there too. Faction play, a mystery, weird science, and multiple threat vectors. Sort of like how Towers Two had a lot of insanity laid over what was essentially a small-scale old-school sandbox setting.
#3 soon!