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Company News Paradox has acquired White Wolf and the World of Darkness IP, including Vampire: The Masquerade

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Was Dead State, apart from all its problems of being a misthought piece of crap, big on shoving stuff down your throat?
Well, in the first moments of the game (after the tutorial, which was added later), your character wakes up from a coma. You immediately have a chance to shout WHERE IS MY WIFE\HUSBAND\BOYFRIEND\GIRLFRIEND regardless of your character's gender. It will almost never be brought up again though, lol. There's, like, two dialogue checks, if memory serves, in which you can discuss "your loss" with NPCs using two or three words. There's also a gay army ranger with his dead boyfriend, whom you randomly encounter on the road. When you talk to him you have an idiotic dialogue choice "Are you gay??". But that's mostly it.

For me SJWism wasn't the problem in Dead State, it wasn't very in your face. The huge problem was writing's lack of quality. Almost no dialogue lines ever flowed organically. Characters were often cartoonish, or bland as cardboard, no middle-ground. Some lines were jarring, like the lines about what presents should I look while on the field for them. Etc, etc. Oh, and ending very much sucked. Zombra and some other people here vehemently disagreeing with me on it, though. In my opinion, the main positive quality of Dead State's story was environmental storytelling. Game really shined in it.

It should be noted, however, that Dead State was in development for a while. Some dialogues and plot was probably written way back, when they only started to make the game. While Annie was always a feminist, when she posted here on 'dex she seemed like a pretty reasonable (if overly excitable) person, so it stands to reason that her characters and plot lines weren't the best ever, but were serviceable. Now, though... just look at her twitter, her followers& those who she's following. And her replies, and retweets. I don't know about you, but I really don't want this person anywhere near any oWoD game.
 
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Joined
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Didn't she go apeshit on her customers?
Annie Mitsoda said:
Exhaustion.
I never thought my reserves of being strong were inexhaustible by any means, but like, I never knew HOW exhausted they could be. I’m spent into a DEFICIT.

It’s the point where one wants to look for some kind of help from some benevolent soul with a lot of clout to just - one kind word. Well, one PUBLIC kind word. A pat on the shoulder in private doesn’t do much if it can’t save the things (and ultimately people) that I care about.

And that one person could do so much harm - one fucker who thinks we one him an apology for BUGS being in a GAME! And who is willing to try and burn down the reputation of my company because we don’t want to respond to his hijack and his harassment - it’s staggering. What the fuck. What possible reason could a $30 purchase warrant that is like “fuck these people and their not bending over backwards to publically flog themselves because I asked them to, TIME TO TRY AND RUIN THEIR COMPANY.” Is it that negativity is really that strong?

(HA, and at a leading question, Tumblr automatically pops up an “Let people answer this” box. No thanks, Tumblr. I don’t think I really want to know)

I don’t need 10s. Or A+ or green or whatever passes for high marks. I know how hard we worked and I know the flaws and I know what we can (and will fix) and what we can’t. I would just settle for people not acting like we’re some kind of ENEMIES of theirs. That would be swell.



And while I’m asking for impossible things, a positive Tweet from Notch would be fucking STELLAR.
[src]
 

ArchAngel

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You can kill him. If you move very fast into that observatory (?), there's one place where he can't get to you, so you can kill him with ranged attacks. He can only soak so much, and eventually dies. Tons of HP though. I don't remember
what I've used with my Malk char, but it's definitely doable.

Red Talons would gladly attack humans. Also BSD. But we were talking about Dark Ages open world game, and there were no Imbued in DA, IIRC.
Dont you juust squish him in a door?
Abusing bugs and exploits is not what I consider part of the game. Just like people that would kill Drizzt in Bg1 using summons that he would not attack and then just stand there.

So let me rephrase myself, you were not meant to kill him. It was not part of design because in Lore, average Garou is almost unkillable by average Vampire and in this case you were not even prepared.
So a game in same world where you travel around and murder them here and there all the time would be stupid.
 
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Now, though... just look at her twitter

Gubgl3O.gif
 

Andhaira

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In b4 obvious cash grab Kickstarter for a first person Bloodlines game made in unity, that has little to do with WoD system wise (disciplines being completely butchered for example)
 

Roguey

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Abusing bugs and exploits is not what I consider part of the game. Just like people that would kill Drizzt in Bg1 using summons that he would not attack and then just stand there.

So let me rephrase myself, you were not meant to kill him. It was not part of design because in Lore, average Garou is almost unkillable by average Vampire and in this case you were not even prepared.
So a game in same world where you travel around and murder them here and there all the time would be stupid.

The door squish was deliberately scripted by the designers. You get xp for it and it automatically stops the countdown, allowing you to leave immediately.

Furthermore, Nines himself kills the other werewolf with his grenade.
 

SCO

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
It's just a easter egg, one of those adventure game solutions to make the player feel awesome for finding it the first time, not expecting it on a rpg, and certainly not untelegraphed by awesome button prompts, although obviously every single one of you has been spoiled.

Now, that thing with the black beast in arx fatalis, that was a dirty trick, because IIRC there was no way to progress but to kill it, which was a multi step puzzle in a high pressure environment.
 

Roguey

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The telegraphing is the fact that there are ~things~ in that level you can interact with (button that opens and closes observatory door, button that turns on power). They wouldn't put interactable things in a level unless they had some purpose.

Of course you have to run by and highlight them.
 

SCO

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Of course you have to run by and highlight them.
Well... obviously. This is a higher standard than 98% of modern games, and 'good' design anyway, certainly better than misguided adventures like dreamweb which littered the game world with interactable and pickupable stuff with absolutely no use except a amusing description (i'm not averse to amusing descriptions but keep inventory items useful please).

I think it's a good middleground for a rpg. You see the button, you see what it does, you watch what the werewolf does if he is outside, and you put two and two together. Simple puzzle, not immediately obvious (that werewolf is a idiot ofc).
 
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Zombra

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I could only see [Larian] doing any of the games in this universe if they hired outside writers, Brits or Americans who can really write in English. I don't know if shit is getting lost in the translation, or if they are just too over-the-top with some of the goofiness in their dialog, but their current "style" absolutely would not work with a WW game.
Yeah, when the subject of which devs could do it came up, I found myself thinking that it needs to be an American-English-first-language studio. Feels politically incorrect to say, but I think it's true. And not just ANY American studio of course. There's an atmosphere that could easily be screwed up by the wrong people.

I guess if the game is set in a different country, then natives of that country should write it (and let us hear the native voice acting with English subtitles only). So if Larian does it, set the game in Brussels I guess. But I still think their writing style would be wrong.

The Secret World's Funcom could pull this one off I think. That game had really nice writing and atmosphere (with strong horror overtones). Investigation missions had some very interesting and creative puzzles, something I think would fit Masquerade pretty well.
Huh! Actually I agree that their writers could do the job! I can't completely get behind the idea though because of their love of cutscenes. I like TSW a lot, but the pacing of those cutscenes is horrible, horrible. If (and only if) they could change that writing from cutscenes to actual dialogues, no more than one or two sentences at a time, I could see it. I love dialogues, but hate lengthy cutscenes. Also they mix in a little too much humor with the darker stuff; it's kind of hard to take TSW seriously, and it's a genre that's best when taken seriously.

Also, very much enjoyed your outline for an investigation and "dialogue battle" type game. I'd back the fuck out of your Kickstarter pitch.

I want a Telltale Games version of Vampire.
Not gonna lie. I would pay money for that. I know, crucify the heretic, blah blah blah.

In Bloodlines you cannot even kill that one Garou
Dont you juust squish him in a door?
Abusing bugs and exploits is not what I consider part of the game.
So let me rephrase myself, you were not meant to kill him. It was not part of design because in Lore, average Garou is almost unkillable by average Vampire and in this case you were not even prepared.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So you think that giant wolf-crushing door with an elaborate set of controls and dramatically long animation time was just there as another way for you to get in and out of the observatory? And Source engine physics at the time were so excellent that it worked to kill the monster? And that whole animation where the thing is struggling to not be crushed was just procedural Source AI?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's OK to have a boner for werewolves, but come on, man.

Well, shit, after Dead State's plot I'd rather not have anything Mitsoda-related in my oWoD. Malkavian dialogue in VtM:B could buy only so much goodwill.
Bah, the Malk stuff was great, but far from the only good writing in Bloodlines.

I agree with Gruncheon that Brian can still write. It's easy to pick on Dead State because the intro was so awful, but the writing got much better after that (though I also agree that many of the characters were a bit too one-trick).

I guess I'm conflicted about Brian and a new Bloodlines for a couple reasons. 1) He's married now; 2) Times have changed a little. I'll say it right out: part of what I liked (and still like) about Bloodlines is its sometimes sexually centered portrayal of women. Though there were certainly strong female characters that weren't sexualized at all (Ming Xiao and Pisha are a couple obvious examples), you also had really over-the-top characters like Jeanette and V.V. (and if I'm really being honest, Heather - I mean, wow). They were cartoonishly overdone, but seduction and sexuality are part of the deal with the whole vampire mythos, aren't they? And there are real life women who base their personas on sexuality - ask any stripper - soooo, it makes sense to me to have these kinds of characters in a story of this type. (Additionally, the sexual history of Jeanette and Therese made possible the most powerful scene in the game.) However, it would be difficult for any writer to get away with characters like these in today's political climate, I think; and as a married man, I frankly don't see Brian as having the necessary - er - tension in his life to write them as colorfully as he once did. I think a certain amount of repression is necessary to be able to create "fantasy" seductive characters like these, and happy as I am personally that he doesn't have to have that frustration in his life any more, it's going to mean that those fantasies may no longer be available for him to draw upon. And even if they are, he might not be able to really indulge them on the page with his wife looking over his shoulder. Basically I want to see Brian tap into the weird parts of his brain that basic courtesy dictates he hides the rest of the time. I want a strip club owner to sell me a quest with the promise of sex. I want, without even trying, to mystically enslave a college girl who swears she'll do anything if I just let her stay near me. I want a lunatic in a nightclub to be so flirtatious and innuendo-laden that it gets to be annoying! I want to see another scene with an innocent person being stalked and killed by flying heads in a house wallpapered with human leather, and I want it to be OK for that scene to be more disturbing because the victim is a woman.

Who knows? I could be mistaken on several counts. Maybe married life makes one (or Brian in particular) more frustrated than ever, with richer fantasies. Maybe Annie would totally back him up and indulge him in writing slutty women characters. And maybe there is a studio out there that would have no problem embracing the blatant emphasis on sexuality that Bloodlines had. But I doubt it. I'd love to be proven wrong.
 

Caim

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From how I understand it World of Darkness is written by those part of the counter-culture. Back in the 90s they were edgelords, and now they are SJWs.

Will we get another game as sexualized as Bloodlines? Unlikely.
 

Bester

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The most obvious cash grab would be a straight up remake.
There were attempts from modders to port it to Unity before CCP freaked out and sent in their lawyer squad ordering to cease and desist.

Now that CCP is out of the equation, those guys still probably wouldn't feel like doing it again unfortunately, cause most of them are busy making some (likely shitty) indie MMO about vampires.

counter-culture. Back in the 90s they were edgelords, and now they are SJWs.
SJWs are mainstream. We don't even have a counter culture right now. I guess the best fit for counter culture people right now would be people who go to work every day and don't whine on twitter like bitches whenever something bad happens.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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RE: Funcom making it.

Funcom's main creative force over past 15 years, Ragnar Tornquist, has left the studio. And good for him, because the rest of the company is only good for fisting shovelware. They haven't had a game that actually broke even since The Longest Journey in the 90s, and wouldn't even exist if they didn't keep milking Norwegian goverment's tit for money.

In other words, forget about it.
 

Bester

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Funcom's main creative force over past 15 years, Ragnar Tornquist, has left the studio.
As far as I understand it, he works half-time at Funcom and half-time at his own studio making that quest game on Unity, the sequel to that quest game he got famous for making in the first place. He hasn't left.
 

Roguey

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Bah, the Malk stuff was great,

wte1btR.jpg


I'm cherrypicking here, but seriously, this is a Bioware-tier reference.

Though there were certainly strong female characters that weren't sexualized at all (Ming Xiao

You didn't get her poster I see. http://www.gamebanshee.com/vampirebloodlines/walkthrough/images/screenshot193.jpg

Bloodlines was rife with misogyny, both on the developer-side and the "LA is full of sleazebags" side, but since the indie crowd believes depiction is endorsement it doesn't matter where it falls now. :)

Just take a look at this patriarchal shitlord.

85lqCQt.jpg

E8tVM0z.jpg


Even the college activist character got in on the internalized misogyny.

9YktU1c.jpg


In her next line she says she wants to make "skank sushi" which is both sexist and racist. :M
 

Ismaul

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Sexualized characters, racist tendencies, internalized misogyny, rampant nihilism, self-serving characters, that's the shit! A good part of why the dialogue in Bloodlines is great.

If new games are barred from having that, all we'll have left are bland fantasy la-la lands. Fuck that, I need that edge.


I fear even Torment will be so asepticized. Nowadays, only AoD has some of that juicy irreverent dialogue, and still, it's all business and no play, all self-serving characters, not sexualized. It's very restrained, in a way.
 

DeepOcean

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Bloodlines was rife with misogyny, both on the developer-side and the "LA is full of sleazebags" side, but since the indie crowd believes depiction is endorsement it doesn't matter where it falls now.
Well, you meet drug dealers, porn movie makers, seedy hotel clerks, seedy bar patrons, vampires that are owners of said seedy bars and other scumbags. What those idiots think? That some porn filmaker will say "Three black men, insert your penises on this strong independent woman asshole, cunt and mouth and jizz all over her but do this with the due respect she deserve because she is an independent strong woman?" This lenguage gimnastics is hilarious, you know because if you don't call the "strong independent woman" a "whore", those three black penises that are going to penetrate her furiously, over and over on multiple positions are going to enter easier.

Man, a SJW drug dealer would be hilarious, "Gime your ass to me for crack independent strong woman! I'm not a mysogenist pig, I could call you a whore but that is a thing for shitlords."
 
Unwanted

Irenaeus II

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We don't even have a counter culture right now.

Wrong.




This guy is a faggot btw

Nowadays, only AoD has some of that juicy irreverent dialogue, and still, it's all business and no play, all self-serving characters, not sexualized. It's very restrained, in a way.

Agree, AoD doesn't touch sex subject. No rape or selling of women slaves. I guess that would be impossible to sell in this gay Earth.

PS: Roguey is a jackass.
 
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IHaveHugeNick

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As far as I understand it, he works half-time at Funcom and half-time at his own studio making that quest game on Unity, the sequel to that quest game he got famous for making in the first place. He hasn't left.

Possibly, but he hasn't had any game credits since TSW, so I doubt he's still on the payroll. Probably didn't *officially* leave, is all.

In any case, since forever Funcom was basically Ragnar and then long line of people who are about as competent as Steven Hawking is at parkour. Without him fully on board its not even worth considering.
 

Zombra

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Just take a look at this patriarchal shitlord.
85lqCQt.jpg
So Romero is your case that the devs hate women but love men? :lol: He's a stupid meathead dudebro stereotype just like Jeanette is a stupid slutty bitch stereotype. He's proof that the devs aren't (only) picking on women. Or do you seriously believe that he's presented as a role model?
 

Sensuki

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They fucking pretty much gave all the major plot of Guilded Valley right at the start

I believe stuff like this was done deliberately so that people wouldn't miss the content, because heavan forbid that a Something Awful poster complain about not finding content on their playthrough. The game pretty much railroads you past nearly everything in the game, with the exception of Defiance Bay I suppose.
 

ZagorTeNej

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Bloodlines was rife with misogyny, both on the developer-side and the "LA is full of sleazebags" side, but since the indie crowd believes depiction is endorsement it doesn't matter where it falls now. :)

Yeah but your argument that the game is mysoginistic rests on the same belief, it's a retarded approach to reviewing (and/or experiencing) and type of creative work. If a game designer (or writer, movie director etc.) puts racists, sociopaths, serial killers, prostitutes, pimps etc. in his game, it in no way means he endorses any of those life styles/personalities/actions, he's just telling a story which has all sorts of characters in it.

When designing a game world a certain degree of logic and consistency is required, especially when you draw inspiration from/trying to portray real life people/locations. That means that you attempt to create believable flawed characters without worrying about offending someone, not bland walking endorsement of inclusiveness and tolerance.
 

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