Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[Eyestabber]

I have a THEORY on build economy. Please back me up or correct me, more experienced PoE players!

I used the trade macro a LOT during my playtime. It's a great learning experience, even if the macro doesn't always get it right (it does 85% of the time, tho). I assume literally everyone else is also using it. From what little understanding I have, the macro seems to operate on a "X mod is expensive/cheap", with a couple pseudos like "# elemental resistances" to get a more realistic evaluation of a given item. However, mod synergy isn't really taken into account AFAIK. Meaning that having 4 great affixes result in an expensive item while having 6 "good enough" affixes result in a bargain bin price. The conclusion I draw is that builds that can benefit from more mods tend to be cheaper, since you can get by with 6 tier 3-4 mods rolled on an item straight out of the bargain bin, while the guy who needs a handful of tier 1 mods better be forking up some exalts.

The other big factor seems to be "build enabling uniques". If you open poe.ninja, click on gladiator and then "dual axes", you'll get a 99% usage of Soul Taker. I have one of those as well, because the build gets severely gimped without Soul Taker's "infinite mana" boon. That introduces a "ceiling" I 100% felt while playing my glad: it gets to a point where you either buy a ST or stop progressing. In my case the enabler was about 1 E, so not exactly bank breaking, but still my sabo made it to yellow maps on a handful of bargain bin rares. Not a single expensive unique, Shavronne's Wrappings or Tremor Rod are LUXURY items, not really necessities for the build.

That also explains the summoner dominance, as minions scale off skill gems just fine, everything else is just a bonus. Actually, my sabo`s spells also get MOST of their scaling from the gems. Melee and Bow OTOH need powerful weapons to get by, which increase build cost. The other important factor being the current idiotic abundance of 1-shot mechanics, meaning builds that need to stop to attack get fucked in the ass. Another point for summoners as they can just focus on defense while minions do their damage for them. My sabo does his own damage dealing, but dropping a cluster of mines in half a second and then immediately going back to spamming flame dash resulted in much safer fights against metamorphs.

Actually, a lot of people are discovering Impale rn, I sold a couple gems for some nice profit. However, impale is one hell of a double edged sword since its damage stacking relies on attacking the same target multiple times. Its something that really helps the viability of melee builds, but it can't possibly beat miner/summoner hit and run playstyle.

Inb4 "hurr durr, that's obvious", no it isn't. 1st League, remember?

Another thing: I think Necros/summoners have an appointment with the nerf hammer. Reddit and other forums are all moaning about Summoner League and how bows are useless, yada yada. I think miners might be next on the chopping block.

So here are my plans for next league:

• The build I learned the game with is viable but not top tier. If GGG caves and buffs melee, I'm definitely starting next league with my Glad.
• If miners continue to fly under the radar, I'll switch to a miner as leaguestarter. The cost-efficiency is insane and the character is actually fun to play, unlike the summon snorefest.
• I'm starting a vortex occultist as well, just to have a third option. The build seems to check all my boxes mentioned earlier on "how to be cost effective". And it's the closest thing to a self cast we can get.
• I won't touch bows for the time being. It's unclear to me whether bows really are underpowered or if current league mechanics just so happen to be too "bow unfriendly". Either way, I finished diablo with both warrior and mage, but never Rogue, so...
• The crafting system remains AFAIK a complete lottery where every method boils down to using gambling chips and hoping you hit the jackpot. YES, there is fossil crafting, but it's just a more expensive gambling chip. I dislike this system, but it's never going to change since it's an important part of the business model. Farming >>>> crafting, at least for me.

 

[janior]

I can recommend going vortex lowlife easy 10k ES +tons of block with kilova lethal pride, easy ~1.5mln shaper dps mapping is kinda eh though, you can go CI version but thats a lot less dmg

 

[Eyestabber]

I can recommend going vortex lowlife easy 10k ES +tons of block with kilova lethal pride, easy ~1.5mln shaper dps mapping is kinda eh though, you can go CI version but thats a lot less dmg

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that I need to level with one tree and then nuke it from orbit and respec into something else entirely. I want whichever version of vortex is the most cost effective. I already have a "glass cannon mage" type, my Sabo, so I want my witch to be tanky. And yeah, I've seen the Templars with like 30k ES, but they are all summoners, so meh.

What do you think of faggot_youtubber's guide?

https://pastebin.com/L8WD46yL

 

[janior]

obviously low-life is most cost effective the only difference p much is you go pain attunment only gear req is presence of chayula ~90c shavs 6-8ex for linked non linked ~1ex kilova lethal pride is not really required but it helps a lot, you also go blood magic either through link or just prism guardian
heres a nice guide with all the leveling/CI transitions, good explanations for everything http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2661120
One thing i really really like about vortex its your dps uptime on bosses is constant, since you hit them without p much any downtime

 

[Shadenuat]

I have a THEORY on build economy

spellcasters > item dependant ranged > item dependant melee
however it doesn't mean you can't pull off item dependant just need to learn to stay within the budget. if your build is too item dependant it's probably not good anyway to start game with.
mebbe try some of that ssf juice. no trade makes you learn crafting system and breakpoints and goals when and on what to use currency.

don't want to end up as one of those "i played arc for 2 years help me with new build cause i still don't understand game mechanics"

If you open poe.ninja, click on gladiator and then "dual axes", you'll get a 99% usage of Soul Taker. I have one of those as well, because the build gets severely gimped without Soul Taker's "infinite mana" boon. That introduces a "ceiling" I 100% felt while playing my glad: it gets to a point where you either buy a ST or stop progressing. In my case the enabler was about 1 E, so not exactly bank breaking, but still my sabo made it to yellow maps on a handful of bargain bin rares.

p sure you can craft some high enough level vaal axe and have no problems with yellow maps at all.

poe uniques story is "no bis uniques!" which ends up in a handful of bis uniques and ton of trash (often infuriatingly low level to the boot) which is only good for loot filter. give me my skin of vipermagi with topaz in it.
at least they should have scaled most of them with level then, so if you're supposed to make a funny build, item would have enough base defence compared to 400 es vaal regalia. (and you still need to link shit)

Reddit and other forums are all moaning about Summoner League and how bows are useless

that's those who can probably finish all content with act 1 skill reward autistic arrow and start near the only poison cluster in existance and attack at range and could probably put toxic rain into traps or something??

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that I need to level with one tree and then nuke it from orbit and respec into something else entirely

If you mean Chaos Innoculation you can switch to it as quickly as level 50-60. You just put all points into flat boosts to ES. I switched to 60 at about 2500 shield right before Daidre. It's rippy, but before level 80 with crafting and lazor focus I had 5k ES and was fighting early map bosses.

obviously low-life is most cost effective the only difference p much is you go pain attunment only gear req is presence of chayula ~90c shavs 6-8ex for linked non linked ~1ex kilova lethal pride is not really required but it helps a lot

EZ BUDGET BUILD

ps now that i beat some bosses i like this atlas the most of all. kill bosses, get gems, gems upgrade maps.choose your difficulty and what maps to upgrade. like it a lot. it actually gives you goals. only thing i wish it wasn't so obscure early and there was more clarity on like, boss presence.

 

[Alpan]

In PoE as of 2020 the question of viability for most builds is overblown. As long as you actually have a clue about how to scale your main skill you can come up with something that works. The main factor is gear dependency, as Shadenuat notes. Even then, I'd venture that no self-respecting build actually needs T1 modded gear to do all the content in the game.

 

[Jaedar]

In PoE as of 2020 the question of viability for most builds is overblown. As long as you actually have a clue about how to scale your main skill you can come up with something that works. The main factor is gear dependency, as Shadenuat notes. Even then, I'd venture that no self-respecting build actually needs T1 modded gear to do all the content in the game.

This is slightly true, but there's a huge difference in how the game feels if you have a 'viable build' (easy uptime 100k+ dps against white mobs, 200k+ dps against bosses and the like) and a bad build. With the latest patch, I actually found the game almost unplayable with a bad build, because I wound up doing so little damage against bosses I ran out mana/mana potions. Obviously you can just portal out to refill, but still.

And gear dependency, yeah you never need mirror gear to beat the game but it feels really bad with an attack character if you haven't found or managed to craft a replacement for 10-15 levels (this is obviously less true levels 80+). Less of an issue for spells, but even then, there is a huge difference in how it feels to use a 'good' skill vs a 'bad' one.

 

[janior]

EZ BUDGET BUILD

???

 

[Alpan]

In PoE as of 2020 the question of viability for most builds is overblown. As long as you actually have a clue about how to scale your main skill you can come up with something that works. The main factor is gear dependency, as Shadenuat notes. Even then, I'd venture that no self-respecting build actually needs T1 modded gear to do all the content in the game.

This is slightly true, but there's a huge difference in how the game feels if you have a 'viable build' (easy uptime 100k+ dps against white mobs, 200k+ dps against bosses and the like) and a bad build. With the latest patch, I actually found the game almost unplayable with a bad build, because I wound up doing so little damage against bosses I ran out mana/mana potions. Obviously you can just portal out to refill, but still.

And gear dependency, yeah you never need mirror gear to beat the game but it feels really bad with an attack character if you haven't found or managed to craft a replacement for 10-15 levels (this is obviously less true levels 80+). Less of an issue for spells, but even then, there is a huge difference in how it feels to use a 'good' skill vs a 'bad' one.

I agree, this is why I qualified my statement with having a clue about how to scale one's main skill. The numbers you quote are not difficult to achieve: PoB says I have about 352k Shaper DPS with Arc using my fairly crappy, T6 Lightning Damage Essence crafted staff. The reason I'm keeping it is because I have luckily six-linked it (I currently have an Agnerod West in the stash lined up as an upgrade, constantly eating up all my fusings). Assuming a 5L setup and dropping the least influential support gem (Energy Leech), I'd be down to 283K, still a fairly decent number. This is on SSF league, I'm up to AL5, and can do most maps if I take care not to roll too rippy mods.

Put somewhat more bluntly, if I managed to do all this on my own, playing with no regard for time efficiency, most others probably can, too. I am unaware of the changes made in the latest patch, because I haven't played for two years. But this was unthinkable in PoE before 3.0.0, at least.

 

[Shadenuat]

crafting becomes more powerful and more accessible every league. so many options. don't remember just easy slap +damage on rings or combos of damage over time chaos damage spell damage on weapons.

and then awakened gems would make u shit briks

 

[Jaedar]

I agree, this is why I qualified my statement with having a clue about how to scale one's main skill. The numbers you quote are not difficult to achieve: PoB says I have about 352k Shaper DPS with Arc using my fairly crappy, T6 Lightning Damage Essence crafted staff. The reason I'm keeping it is because I have luckily six-linked it (I currently have an Agnerod West in the stash lined up as an upgrade, constantly eating up all my fusings). Assuming a 5L setup and dropping the least influential support gem (Energy Leech), I'd be down to 283K, still a fairly decent number. This is on SSF league, I'm up to AL5, and can do most maps if I take care not to roll too rippy mods.

Put somewhat more bluntly, if I managed to do all this on my own, playing with no regard for time efficiency, most others probably can, too. I am unaware of the changes made in the latest patch, because I haven't played for two years. But this was unthinkable in PoE before 3.0.0, at least.

I'm pretty sure arc counts as a T1 gem though (even if you found this out yourself). Try doing the same with storm call (afaik its one of the worst skill gems) and you will find it is a lot harder to get a decent build out of it.

I think it is kind of a shame that a lot of skills gems are just kinda shitty compared to other options, but that's the balance right now.

 

[Alpan]

I'm pretty sure arc counts as a T1 gem though (even if you found this out yourself). Try doing the same with storm call (afaik its one of the worst skill gems) and you will find it is a lot harder to get a decent build out of it.

I think it is kind of a shame that a lot of skills gems are just kinda shitty compared to other options, but that's the balance right now.

Arc is (and always has been) an easy skill to get going in SSF, it's true. But you'll have to qualify your statement that it'll be difficult to get a build out of Storm Call. The spell deals more damage and has more base crit than Arc (even accounting for a few remaining chains). If you can accommodate the mechanics (Temporal Chains to slow mobs down? Spell Cascade for AoE coverage? Less Duration for faster strikes?) I don't see a reason for a build to actually fail. It's not popular sure, but I doubt that it's not viable.

 

[janior]

didnt ggg nerf arc like 150 times?

 

[ArchAngel]

didnt ggg nerf arc like 150 times?

Only one nerf 2 leagues ago and then they buffed it again this league.

I started this league with Spark and then switched to Arc. Arc is probably best spell in the game atm.

 

[Jaedar]

Arc is (and always has been) an easy skill to get going in SSF, it's true. But you'll have to qualify your statement that it'll be difficult to get a build out of Storm Call. The spell deals more damage and has more base crit than Arc (even accounting for a few remaining chains). If you can accommodate the mechanics (Temporal Chains to slow mobs down? Spell Cascade for AoE coverage? Less Duration for faster strikes?) I don't see a reason for a build to actually fail. It's not popular sure, but I doubt that it's not viable.

You kinda explained half of it yourself. Sure, you can run less duration, but even so there's a 0.75 second delay between casting the spell and damage happening (on average it's less since one strike triggers all strikes, but still). And less duration has only 20% more damage, so you're losing out on quite a bit of damage compared to another skill gem. Same with spell cascade (which actually has 21% less damage).

Admittedly, the base dps is almost identical, but that's kind of the issue. The base dps is the same, but storm call requires scaling area, less duration (restricts your other build options since you can't/shouldn't take any duration increases), has chance to miss if target is moving. Base dps being the same is kinda misleading too. Arc has +105% more damage to single targets, so even with the 0.8 added efficiency it scales 64% better from added damage. Oh and bonus points if you get level 21 skill gem, for another +15% more damage.

And what is the actual benefit? Theoretically faster clear against large, dense packs of enemies (which is questionable anyway due to the delay).

It's not that you can't make a storm call build with 3 billion dps, I just think it is strictly harder than arc, little to no advantage over arc... so why even bother?

I'm not sure we actually disagree on anything other than the meaning of the word 'viable' and how problematic large gaps in skill gem power are.

 

[Shadenuat]

everyone in the end becomes monster, the difference is in easy or hard start.

speaking of axes, I really like new master mission system, how it implemented into mapping and you can farm what you want (i am trying to get some +chaos from abbasid caliphate girl). got a few similar weapons like +100% phys +flat phys +2 all melee skills +impale. look like fairly easy accessible early weapons.

I WISH they would finally make sense of their affix UI somehow, so it would be easy to check what you can craft and not. because poeaffix seems to slowly go caput, wiki is incomplete and anothe site asks me to turn adblock off. whole system needs some sort of UI support with encyclopedia of suffixes.

I am not sure why people rage so much on some of those bosses. they are fairly trivial compared to Ys games I guess House Ordos might be really annoying to melees (and I don't know how much damage he does to not-chaos immune), Banner Saga guy one of those invul phases, Baran is straight from Ys 1 but easier, womyn didnt spawn for me yet.

 

[Sharpedge]

I have a THEORY on build economy. Please back me up or correct me, more experienced PoE players!

I used the trade macro a LOT during my playtime. It's a great learning experience, even if the macro doesn't always get it right (it does 85% of the time, tho). I assume literally everyone else is also using it. From what little understanding I have, the macro seems to operate on a "X mod is expensive/cheap", with a couple pseudos like "# elemental resistances" to get a more realistic evaluation of a given item. However, mod synergy isn't really taken into account AFAIK. Meaning that having 4 great affixes result in an expensive item while having 6 "good enough" affixes result in a bargain bin price. The conclusion I draw is that builds that can benefit from more mods tend to be cheaper, since you can get by with 6 tier 3-4 mods rolled on an item straight out of the bargain bin, while the guy who needs a handful of tier 1 mods better be forking up some exalts.

The other big factor seems to be "build enabling uniques". If you open poe.ninja, click on gladiator and then "dual axes", you'll get a 99% usage of Soul Taker. I have one of those as well, because the build gets severely gimped without Soul Taker's "infinite mana" boon. That introduces a "ceiling" I 100% felt while playing my glad: it gets to a point where you either buy a ST or stop progressing. In my case the enabler was about 1 E, so not exactly bank breaking, but still my sabo made it to yellow maps on a handful of bargain bin rares. Not a single expensive unique, Shavronne's Wrappings or Tremor Rod are LUXURY items, not really necessities for the build.

That also explains the summoner dominance, as minions scale off skill gems just fine, everything else is just a bonus. Actually, my sabo`s spells also get MOST of their scaling from the gems. Melee and Bow OTOH need powerful weapons to get by, which increase build cost. The other important factor being the current idiotic abundance of 1-shot mechanics, meaning builds that need to stop to attack get fucked in the ass. Another point for summoners as they can just focus on defense while minions do their damage for them. My sabo does his own damage dealing, but dropping a cluster of mines in half a second and then immediately going back to spamming flame dash resulted in much safer fights against metamorphs.

Actually, a lot of people are discovering Impale rn, I sold a couple gems for some nice profit. However, impale is one hell of a double edged sword since its damage stacking relies on attacking the same target multiple times. Its something that really helps the viability of melee builds, but it can't possibly beat miner/summoner hit and run playstyle.

Inb4 "hurr durr, that's obvious", no it isn't. 1st League, remember?

Another thing: I think Necros/summoners have an appointment with the nerf hammer. Reddit and other forums are all moaning about Summoner League and how bows are useless, yada yada. I think miners might be next on the chopping block.

So here are my plans for next league:

• The build I learned the game with is viable but not top tier. If GGG caves and buffs melee, I'm definitely starting next league with my Glad.
• If miners continue to fly under the radar, I'll switch to a miner as leaguestarter. The cost-efficiency is insane and the character is actually fun to play, unlike the summon snorefest.
• I'm starting a vortex occultist as well, just to have a third option. The build seems to check all my boxes mentioned earlier on "how to be cost effective". And it's the closest thing to a self cast we can get.
• I won't touch bows for the time being. It's unclear to me whether bows really are underpowered or if current league mechanics just so happen to be too "bow unfriendly". Either way, I finished diablo with both warrior and mage, but never Rogue, so...
• The crafting system remains AFAIK a complete lottery where every method boils down to using gambling chips and hoping you hit the jackpot. YES, there is fossil crafting, but it's just a more expensive gambling chip. I dislike this system, but it's never going to change since it's an important part of the business model. Farming >>>> crafting, at least for me.

You pretty much summed it all up, although I wouldn't really call a tremor rod a luxury item considering how cheaply you can obtain 1. I would echo the sentiment that the best way to learn the game is through playing SSF, although I would add some more details onto "build progression" so to speak.

• At end game elemental damage usually has the highest ceiling in terms of what you can achieve with it, but it is also the most expensive to scale.
• It is easier to achieve higher values of Energy Shield than higher values of life, however Energy Shield characters have a harder time with stuns and also don't have the benefit of a life flask.
• Anything that works in a SSF league will naturally work in a trade league, however there are also builds which are much stronger that only work in trade.
• Skills that are finicky to use usually deal more single target damage. Easy examples to give are Blade Flurry or Mines. You sacrifice, "ease of use" for more damage.
• Minions and Mines are almost always good, every single league regardless of how much whining people might do about nerfs to them. Mines haven't been in a bad spot for years, it is just that the way they play does not suit everyone.
• Builds that rely more on rares usually have a higher performance ceiling than builds that rely more on uniques. but are also more expensive to get to that ceiling.
• Melee is viable (despite all the complaining, 1 of my characters this league is in fact melee and is having an ok time, have done shaper/guardian/uber elder with it), however it is definitely weaker than ranged. I do not recommend doing the Sirus fight with melee however, the final phase is absolutely infuriating even though it can be done.

Builds that are currently cheap to start off with and faceroll everything in no specific order are:

• Blade Vortex.
• Pyroclast Mines (but really, any mines will do).
  
• Minions (In general, unless you are trying to do damage with an animated guardian or something really weird, all the minions are good).
• Vortex.
• Bane/Essence Drain/Contagion.

I personally don't find them particularly fun to play, but if you want to be aware of what they are, there is a non exhaustive list.

 

[Sharpedge]

everyone in the end becomes monster, the difference is in easy or hard start.

speaking of axes, I really like new master mission system, how it implemented into mapping and you can farm what you want (i am trying to get some +chaos from abbasid caliphate girl). got a few similar weapons like +100% phys +flat phys +2 all melee skills +impale. look like fairly easy accessible early weapons.

I WISH they would finally make sense of their affix UI somehow, so it would be easy to check what you can craft and not. because poeaffix seems to slowly go caput, wiki is incomplete and anothe site asks me to turn adblock off. whole system needs some sort of UI support with encyclopedia of suffixes.

I am not sure why people rage so much on some of those bosses. they are fairly trivial compared to Ys games I guess House Ordos might be really annoying to melees (and I don't know how much damage he does to not-chaos immune), Banner Saga guy one of those invul phases, Baran is straight from Ys 1 but easier, womyn didnt spawn for me yet.

I would use https://poedb.tw/us/mod.php for item modifiers. PoE DB is pretty much the be all end all data reference for PoE, but if you want something offline then https://github.com/LocalIdentity/PathOfBuilding/wiki/Installing-this-Fork this supports crafting with the new mods, if you select, "create a new item."

 

[Shadenuat]

however Energy Shield characters have a harder time with stuns

"you cannot be stunned if you have energy shield"

also don't have the benefit of a life flask

press f for vaal discipline

(slaps 300 es shield instead of old 200 one, gets another 1000 hp)

Builds that are currently cheap to start off with and faceroll everything

Bane

now waait minute. yes I may be using this spell, but i also have a sword with like withering on it i try to swing sometimes to add +00001% damage. granted it does nothing and just had +chaos damage to spells on it but I have it. that gives me style points right??

I would use https://poedb

yea this is one I try to use. It just takes too much time to craft items in pob.

Melee is viable

dont forget to clarify what is melee since some people believe throwing weapons or shields at monsters very quickly en masse is melee

 

[Sharpedge]

however Energy Shield characters have a harder time with stuns

"you cannot be stunned if you have energy shield"

also don't have the benefit of a life flask

press f for vaal discipline

(slaps 300 es shield instead of old 200 one, gets another 1000 hp)

Builds that are currently cheap to start off with and faceroll everything

Bane

now waait minute. yes I may be using this spell, but i also have a sword with like withering on it i try to swing sometimes to add +00001% damage. granted it does nothing and just had +chaos damage to spells on it but I have it. that gives me style points right??

I would use https://poedb

yea this is one I try to use. It just takes too much time to craft items in pob.

I was talking more about the theoretical downsides of energy shield, but yes, it is now far too easy to overcome those compared to how it used to be prior to the addition of ascendancy paths. The only downside ES currently has you could say is it does actually take some investment to make leech work on ES compared to life, but it is nowhere near the level of investment that overcoming those downsides used to take in the past.

 

[Alpan]

There's also "the recover ES/mana when you focus" crafted mod which is effectively an ES flask hit every 12 seconds.

 

[Shadenuat]

I also have a few jews with +es on hitting enemy, don't know how effective it is. Seem to be doing fine so far with just all boosts to es recharge + zealoths oath

seems to neatly counter many GOTCHA moments from the game. well and full immune to reflect. even to reflect of my own curse on me since it's chaos damage. and i am immune to chaos. why didn't I play CI scion occultist pathfinder before--

ouch

think I twisted finger pressing potions 12942159023-059023909 time

I wanted to say "i will never NOT play scion + pathfinder + x again" but I think after this one I will not be able to press 1-5 keys ever again and would need new keyboard.

 

[Sharpedge]

I also have a few jews with +es on hitting enemy, don't know how effective it is. Seem to be doing fine so far with just all boosts to es recharge + zealoths oath

seems to neatly counter many GOTCHA moments from the game. well and full immune to reflect. even to reflect of my own curse on me since it's chaos damage. and i am immune to chaos. why didn't I play CI scion occultist pathfinder before--

ouch

think I twisted finger pressing potions 12942159023-059023909 time

I wanted to say "i will never NOT play scion + pathfinder + x again" but I think after this one I will not be able to press 1-5 keys ever again and would need new keyboard.

I am currently playing a pathfinder and my keyboard will likely not survive either.

 

[Zeriel]

So after some time playing with metamorphs I think they are actually way more balanced in maps than the launch day impressions seemed. The main issue is they have a lot of potential chaos damage abilities and modifiers, if you avoid these all the time their damage is actually pretty manageable. The other issue is that the meter on the side does not scale well at all into late content, putting any unique (i.e boss) mat into it will almost immediately set it to max, which means that their bonus damage is always pretty high. If you don't have them set up with chaos damage moves though, it is perfectly fine.

The old rule that the game is balanced around -60% or -20% chaos resist seems to have been thrown fully out the window. Chaos resist is actually really good to have now, maybe even required for later content. Metamorphs aside, there's stuff like Al-Hezmin being a chaos based boss and all the snakes and influence mobs he throws into maps. I'm sure there's other examples I'm forgetting about. Having "good enough" gear with some chaos resist on top will really help now.

Pantheon mods seem increasingly pointless, though, with stuff like Al-Hezmin's poison completely ignoring the "cannot be poisoned" rule from the pantheon bonus. If they were always going to make these things only work on pre-maps content I feel like they shouldn't have bothered with pantheon at all, the pre-release justification for it was providing better management of these mechanics.

 

[Sharpedge]

So after some time playing with metamorphs I think they are actually way more balanced in maps than the launch day impressions seemed. The main issue is they have a lot of potential chaos damage abilities and modifiers, if you avoid these all the time their damage is actually pretty manageable. The main issue is that the meter on the side does not scale well at all into late content, putting any unique (i.e boss) mat into it will almost immediately set it to max, which means that their bonus damage is always pretty high. If you don't have them set up with chaos damage moves though, it is perfectly fine.

The old rule that the game is balanced around -60% or -20% chaos resist seems to have been thrown fully out the window. Chaos resist is actually really good to have now, maybe even required for later content. Metamorphs aside, there's stuff like Al-Hezmin being a chaos based boss and all the snakes and influence mobs he throws into maps. I'm sure there's other examples I'm forgetting about. Having "good enough" gear with some chaos resist on top will really help now.

Pantheon mods seem increasingly pointless, though, with stuff like Al-Hezmin's poison completely ignoring the "cannot be poisoned" rule from the pantheon bonus. If they were always going to make these things only work on pre-maps content I feel like they shouldn't have bothered with pantheon at all, the pre-release justification for it was providing better management of these mechanics.

It depends more on the metamorph attack then whether or not it does chaos damage. This is my character's defensive stats:

Spoiler

(I am pathfinder, so its with flasks up, but you get the idea). Specific metamorph attacks, for example, the big spitting attack which throws black sludge up in the air and then raining down on you will just 1 shot me, through vaal molten shell with 10k flat damage reduction + 7400 hp.