Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[Perkel]

More info on the Hard Mode:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3320651


This shit reads like a jail sentence for a serial rapist. The success of games like Dark Souls shows that there is a demographic that "enjoys" this type of masochistic gameplay, but for me it just reads like PoE without all the fun shit. I'll probably dip my toe in for 1 or 2 days just to experience it first hand, but I doubt it's gonna be a mainstay for the majority of the players.

One big upside to this for me is: now whenever some faggot starts crying about the regular game being too easy, I can just tell him to go play Ruthless and stfu.

I mean this is what people wanted me included. Going back to POE we loved in early days. Because this is more or less how it worked back then + some extra changes. And back then game was a lot fucking harder.

I still remember vall temple from act2 being hard ele check even on normal. Since then they upped base life you get from level so much that it doesn't matter. Getting 500DPS in act 2 also was almost impossible because all support gems had to be found.

 

[scytheavatar]

More info on the Hard Mode:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3320651


This shit reads like a jail sentence for a serial rapist. The success of games like Dark Souls shows that there is a demographic that "enjoys" this type of masochistic gameplay, but for me it just reads like PoE without all the fun shit. I'll probably dip my toe in for 1 or 2 days just to experience it first hand, but I doubt it's gonna be a mainstay for the majority of the players.

One big upside to this for me is: now whenever some faggot starts crying about the regular game being too easy, I can just tell him to go play Ruthless and stfu.

I mean this is what people wanted me included. Going back to POE we loved in early days. Because this is more or less how it worked back then + some extra changes. And back then game was a lot fucking harder.

I still remember vall temple from act2 being hard ele check even on normal. Since then they upped base life you get from level so much that it doesn't matter. Getting 500DPS in act 2 also was almost impossible because all support gems had to be found.

People like you need to accept that the early days are ancient history and never coming back. You will not playing the old POE in ruthless mode, you will be playing the current POE just with more grind and tedium. If you are not having fun with the current POE you are not going to enjoy POE just because you need to grind more.

Also with the current POE finding the gems you want and need being dropped is basically impossible. They should have done a culling of useless gems a long ago to make it more likely gem drops have value, but alas that's never happening.

 

[Tacgnol]

My suspicion is this will have very few players overall, but if it finds a niche with certain people like Perkel then great and I wish them all the fun in the world with it.

 

[scytheavatar]

My suspicion is this will have very few players overall, but if it finds a niche with certain people like Perkel then great and I wish them all the fun in the world with it.

Very few players overall = the mode is dead. Cause playing the mode in SSF is basically impossible, it is designed heavily to incentivize trading. Good luck having a functioning economy with limited players.

 

[Tacgnol]

My suspicion is this will have very few players overall, but if it finds a niche with certain people like Perkel then great and I wish them all the fun in the world with it.

Very few players overall = the mode is dead. Cause playing the mode in SSF is basically impossible, it is designed heavily to incentivize trading. Good luck having a functioning economy with limited players.

Yeah I suspect it will end up being a SSF mode more or less.

I hope it's successful enough that Chris can dump his worst impulses on Ruthless rather than being tempted to continue to meddle with the main league.

 

[Kjaska]

Chris can dump his worst impulses on Ruthless rather than being tempted to continue to meddle with the main league.

I'm 95% sure it's not Chris who is responsible for the changes in 3.19 people are upset by. Remember, he is the guy who was protecting Headhunter and he is the guy who wanted us to have easy 6-Links. I doubt he has any direct say in balancing at all, except his veto power when he goes over the changes made by the team. And as we saw during the launch of 3.19, those veto powers did jack shit to catch the removal of legacy IIR/IIQ bonus on league monsters.

 

[Tacgnol]

Chris can dump his worst impulses on Ruthless rather than being tempted to continue to meddle with the main league.

I'm 95% sure it's not Chris who is responsible for the changes in 3.19 people are upset by. Remember, he is the guy who was protecting Headhunter and he is the guy who wanted us to have easy 6-Links. I doubt he has any direct say in balancing at all, except his veto power when he goes over the changes made by the team. And as we saw during the launch of 3.19, those veto powers did jack shit to catch the removal of legacy IIR/IIQ bonus on league monsters.

Either way I hope it allows them to balance things a bit differently in the future, but I guess we'll see.

 

[Perkel]

People like you need to accept that the early days are ancient history and never coming back. You will not playing the old POE in ruthless mode, you will be playing the current POE just with more grind and tedium. If you are not having fun with the current POE you are not going to enjoy POE just because you need to grind more.

Also with the current POE finding the gems you want and need being dropped is basically impossible. They should have done a culling of useless gems a long ago to make it more likely gem drops have value, but alas that's never happening.

1. The fundamental part about ARPG loot game is wait for it.... finding good loot YOURSELF you can use. Scarce loot means that every upgrade matters. Finding a blue ring with good life roll could give you edge for rest of act is great feeling in such mode vs finding another rare upon rare with good rolls you don't even consider picking up.

2. That is problem with your thinking. For me i will build around stuff i find not about some POB build you created before even started playing.

 

[scytheavatar]

People like you need to accept that the early days are ancient history and never coming back. You will not playing the old POE in ruthless mode, you will be playing the current POE just with more grind and tedium. If you are not having fun with the current POE you are not going to enjoy POE just because you need to grind more.

Also with the current POE finding the gems you want and need being dropped is basically impossible. They should have done a culling of useless gems a long ago to make it more likely gem drops have value, but alas that's never happening.

1. The fundamental part about ARPG loot game is wait for it.... finding good loot YOURSELF you can use. Scarce loot means that every upgrade matters. Finding a blue ring with good life roll could give you edge for rest of act is great feeling in such mode vs finding another rare upon rare with good rolls you don't even consider picking up.

That's not how things are going to work....... the loot system of POE is so awful that the chances of you getting loot on the ground worth picking up is near zero. That's why you don't pick up rolls on the ground. And scarce loot doesn't solve that problem, it in fact makes it worse as it is even less likely you will find loot on the ground with mods worth picking up. In the end I suspect the meta of Ruthless will be to farm blood aquadect for weeks until you get enough crafting currency to craft your gear. It'll be far more efficient than picking up items on the ground.

 

[Perkel]

That's not how things are going to work....... the loot system of POE is so awful that the chances of you getting loot on the ground worth picking up is near zero.

This is a fact. The thing is that you see effect but don't think about the cause. Why POE loot on ground is shit ?

There are 2 causes:

1. Crafting makes it super easy to get medium quality rare weapon. Just roll around blue until you get phys damage + speed then craft % increased voila. With this simple trick 99.9999% of loot in game is invalidated. Same with armor. Just craft it.
2. Uniques drop rate was buffed since 1.0 so much that you are showered with them right now so it is fairly easy to find unique for a slot and fill rest with crafted rare.

Answer: The reason why everything on ground is shit is because you already have better gear on yourself with minimal investement. Then further into game that gets exponentially worse.

If you introduce what they want to do with new mode:

1. mastecrafting is nuked
2. finding unique ? Try finding rare first.

In other words you will have to look on ground for your improvements because your gear will be shit and there are no mechanics to invalidate it.

They already said that finding 1 alch in 10 acts is expected. So don't think you will be rolling or augmenting items either and you can forget about essences, fossils and other stuff. Those will be now incredible treasure if they will exist at all.

------------------

IT is not exclusively POE issue. D2 also was hurt a lot with crafting. Especially with runewords crafting later on that invalidate 80% of gear you find. This is one of reasons why D1 is still good loot arpg as everything you find can be an upgrade.

Crafting in general is super poor fit for loot ARPG. Loot and crafting don't mesh well and hardly work. Either game has to be craft oriented meaning no random loot or loot oriented meaning no crafting. If they mix then you have huge balancing issues where one invalidates other or vice versa.

 

[scytheavatar]

That's not how things are going to work....... the loot system of POE is so awful that the chances of you getting loot on the ground worth picking up is near zero.

This is a fact. The thing is that you see effect but don't think about the cause. Why POE loot on ground is shit ?

Because:

1) Too many shit useless mods in item pool
2) Needing health rolled on every gear is terrible design
3) Needing spell suppression rolled on every armor is terrible design
4) Too many items on the ground have shit base and are useless even if they have good rolls
5) Chris said he wants boss drops to have better rolled mods, which is a mistake. ALL drops should not have brick tier rolls on them.
6) Having to identify items is outdated and time consuming, even D2 did it better by letting Deckard identify items for you

All the changes do is to put pressure on you to clear as much of the game with no gear, rather than to pick up items on the ground. Cause fact is it's simply too much a waste of time to pick up items and hope they have value.

They already said that finding 1 alch in 10 acts is expected.

Which means you can expect to be farming for weeks just to have enough alch to craft your gear.

 

[Jaedar]

2. That is problem with your thinking. For me i will build around stuff i find not about some POB build you created before even started playing.

I think the correct thing to do will be to spend a long time POBing and wiking to make sure that you get enough guaranteed gems from quests that you can make a decent build.

Or perhaps more realistically just running the first 3 acts 10 times for siosa tokens.

 

[Peachcurl]

due to changed above they for sure will have to:

- adjust monster speed, damage, hp and density
- degens

just fyi, this part of your post is the reason for my rainbow rating

 

[Jaedar]

12 challenges done, 75c remaining.

I feel like if I hadn't gotten rotten rng I might have gone for 14, but if I haven't found an echoing shrine in 100+ maps I'm not going to find it by just running through the maps in my stash, and either way I'd need to buy trialmaster completion or something. So 12 it is.

May this shitty league mechanic rest in peace, but may the challenge design long live.

 

[Perkel]

Because:

1) Too many shit useless mods in item pool
2) Needing health rolled on every gear is terrible design
3) Needing spell suppression rolled on every armor is terrible design
4) Too many items on the ground have shit base and are useless even if they have good rolls
5) Chris said he wants boss drops to have better rolled mods, which is a mistake. ALL drops should not have brick tier rolls on them.
6) Having to identify items is outdated and time consuming, even D2 did it better by letting Deckard identify items for you

All the changes do is to put pressure on you to clear as much of the game with no gear, rather than to pick up items on the ground. Cause fact is it's simply too much a waste of time to pick up items and hope they have value.

Again why is that ? Because POE has to be balanced around what people have not what people find.
If everyone had crappy gear with barely any life on it then POE would be balanced around that.
Instead with this expanded crafting they have to assume you are no life who will either buy top tier gear or craft it yourself.

5) Chris said he wants boss drops to have better rolled mods, which is a mistake. ALL drops should not have brick tier rolls on them.

Which means that GGG will further tune up monsters and everything else to new gear progression.

 

[Peachcurl]

If everyone had crappy gear with barely any life on it then POE would be balanced around that.

"should" not "would" - then it's fair enough. But they won't rebalance the game for ruthless mode.

 

[Perkel]

If everyone had crappy gear with barely any life on it then POE would be balanced around that.

"should" not "would" - then it's fair enough. But they won't rebalance the game for ruthless mode.

Rebalancing stats of monsters, skills, spawning rate etc. it fairly easy thing to do. What they are doing with rest like changing loot tables etc. Is much harder so imho i fully expect it won't have the same balancing as standard game.

 

[Peachcurl]

If everyone had crappy gear with barely any life on it then POE would be balanced around that.

"should" not "would" - then it's fair enough. But they won't rebalance the game for ruthless mode.

Rebalancing stats of monsters, skills, spawning rate etc. it fairly easy thing to do. What they are doing with rest like changing loot tables etc. Is much harder so imho i fully expect it won't have the same balancing as standard game.

Changing those stats may be easy, balancing them is not. Not at all. They probably think they'll get away with changing something they always wanted to change, without having to fix anything else. Which is naive, sure. But as they say, it's not the main show but a pet project.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if they did more than they announced here, but ... I don't believe it.

 

[Jaedar]

I'd be pleasantly surprised if they did more than they announced here, but ... I don't believe it.

I mean, it must already have received like 1000x the work put in to SSF or HC...

 

[scytheavatar]

Because:

1) Too many shit useless mods in item pool
2) Needing health rolled on every gear is terrible design
3) Needing spell suppression rolled on every armor is terrible design
4) Too many items on the ground have shit base and are useless even if they have good rolls
5) Chris said he wants boss drops to have better rolled mods, which is a mistake. ALL drops should not have brick tier rolls on them.
6) Having to identify items is outdated and time consuming, even D2 did it better by letting Deckard identify items for you

All the changes do is to put pressure on you to clear as much of the game with no gear, rather than to pick up items on the ground. Cause fact is it's simply too much a waste of time to pick up items and hope they have value.

Again why is that ? Because POE has to be balanced around what people have not what people find.
If everyone had crappy gear with barely any life on it then POE would be balanced around that.
Instead with this expanded crafting they have to assume you are no life who will either buy top tier gear or craft it yourself.

5) Chris said he wants boss drops to have better rolled mods, which is a mistake. ALL drops should not have brick tier rolls on them.

Which means that GGG will further tune up monsters and everything else to new gear progression.

You are getting it backwards, it's the decision to create one shot monsters and punish people with low DPS via mobs with life recovery that is forcing players to use only top end gear. If GGG is to lower the baseline power of mobs it'll make players feel they can get away with crappy gear. Problem is that's never going to happen.

 

[Baron Dupek]

3.19.2 Patch Notes​

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3320849

sound effects engine upgrade

is this what I think is?

 

[Perkel]

If everyone had crappy gear with barely any life on it then POE would be balanced around that.

"should" not "would" - then it's fair enough. But they won't rebalance the game for ruthless mode.

Rebalancing stats of monsters, skills, spawning rate etc. it fairly easy thing to do. What they are doing with rest like changing loot tables etc. Is much harder so imho i fully expect it won't have the same balancing as standard game.

Changing those stats may be easy, balancing them is not. Not at all. They probably think they'll get away with changing something they always wanted to change, without having to fix anything else. Which is naive, sure. But as they say, it's not the main show but a pet project.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if they did more than they announced here, but ... I don't believe it.

Literally:

mobs - increase life by 2 times (leave unique and rare life normal)
mobs - reduce damage by 50%
mobs - reduce spawn rate by 50%

It instantly fixes:
- AOE damage being more important than single target damage.
- True melee
- one hit Kos
- clear screen meta
- layering of defense
- need for capped resists at all times
- variety of builds

Most of those problems are because monsters die on one hit which forces GGG to overtune their damage so that on chance they get to you once in while they hit hard. With this change you can't kill screens of them and monsters would hit you a lot but instead of hitting like trucks each they would hit you a lot less but more times change 1hit KOs into situation in which you can respond.

To completely fix it they would have to redo completely defenses in game but it would be major improvement to what is now.

 

[Ba'al]

It's pointless to argue whether adjusting the mobs is easy to do or not. They didn't say that they'll tune the mobs (for ruthless) and as much as I'd like them to, they won't.

 

[Perkel]

It's pointless to argue whether adjusting the mobs is easy to do or not. They didn't say that they'll tune the mobs (for ruthless) and as much as I'd like them to, they won't.

They said there will be more changes. That post was only outlining what is the focus of ruthless to give people warning.

 

[scytheavatar]

It's pointless to argue whether adjusting the mobs is easy to do or not. They didn't say that they'll tune the mobs (for ruthless) and as much as I'd like them to, they won't.

They said there will be more changes. That post was only outlining what is the focus of ruthless to give people warning.

The larger you make the scope of Ruthless is, the more likely it is to be an utter failure. If you are adjusting the mobs for Ruthless you will need to do so EVERY league which is asking for a lot. Since if they decide to increase the damage/health of every mob in normal mode by X% are they going to do the same for Ruthless?