Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Cael]

I don't know how its implemented (I'm happy you don't have to grow claws here, which is Cha mod limited), but according to SRD:

Dragon Bite (Ex)
At 2nd level, whenever the dragon disciple uses his bloodline to grow claws, he also gains a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if the dragon disciple is Small), plus 1–1/2 times the dragon disciple’s Strength modifier. Upon reaching 6th level, this bite also deals 1d6 points of energy damage. The type of damage dealt is determined by the dragon disciple’s bloodline.

*shrug* Sounds like more paitardedness. But why not. More attacks, more numbers, more bloat. The trend continues.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

guys does the spell combat of eldritch scion stack with dragonform's natural attacks in game?

 

[Yosharian]

ES gets weapon enhancements, which are really the chief feature in my opinion. Once you hit level 6 on ES, you basically have a full 6 minutes of enhancing.

It’s a nice ribbon, but you can always just use a weapon with the enchant you want. There are many weapons with speed, flaming, etc. Even some with brilliant energy and ghost touch. Swapping weapons costs nothing, even swapping directly from your inventory.

And it causes enchantments to drop off your weapons, which limits the usefulness severely in the mid-late game.

"And it causes enchantments to drop off your weapons"

Wait what

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Weapons can have up to +10 enchantment, so if you already have a heavily enchanted weapon using the magus enchantments will cause some other enchantments on the weapon to become null and void

 

[Yosharian]

Weapons can have up to +10 enchantment, so if you already have a heavily enchanted weapon using the magus enchantments will cause some other enchantments on the weapon to become null and void

Well shit.

 

[Incendax]

Well shit.

Yep. Imagine you're using Champion of Graves. You add in Fire, Lightning, and Cold damage for whatever reason. You think you're going to deal 6d6 damage every swing, but the 3d6 Negative Energy has dropped off! The "unique" enchantments on the weapons get temporarily bumped off, which can be quite a bummer when you suddenly lose benefits like Brilliant Energy or Improved Speed.

 

[Yosharian]

Well shit.

Yep. Imagine you're using Champion of Graves. You add in Fire, Lightning, and Cold damage for whatever reason. You think you're going to deal 6d6 damage every swing, but the 3d6 Negative Energy has dropped off! The "unique" enchantments on the weapons get temporarily bumped off, which can be quite a bummer when you suddenly lose benefits like Brilliant Energy or Improved Speed.

Is this really going to affect mid-game play though? Seems like much more of a lategame thing, level 16+...

Admittedly my character has 7 levels allocated to other classes, so it's much less of an issue for me

 

[Nirvash]

So guys, gonna restart using a full real companions party.

How to build valerie to use her cha?

Most fun ranged build for avatar?

 

[Yosharian]

So guys, gonna restart using a full real companions party.

How to build valerie to use her cha?

Most fun ranged build for avatar?

Just use mod to completely resculpt her into a new character. She's obnoxiously self-centred, poor at diplomacy, lacks people skills... fuck high charisma just because she's supposedly pretty.

 

[Incendax]

Is this really going to affect mid-game play though? Seems like much more of a lategame thing, level 16+...

Most mid-game weapons won’t have an issue, but some of them can... like Armag’s Sword which already has +5 and Goodies. You can actually bump off the Berserk part of his sword, but Vicious gets bumped off first.

And of course, if you cheese the Lich you will run into it pretty fast.

 

[Yosharian]

Is this really going to affect mid-game play though? Seems like much more of a lategame thing, level 16+...

Most mid-game weapons won’t have an issue, but some of them can... like Armag’s Sword which already has +5 and Goodies. You can actually bump off the Berserk part of his sword, but Vicious gets bumped off first.

And of course, if you cheese the Lich you will run into it pretty fast.

Isn't getting rid of vicious a positive thing? =)

 

[Sykar]

So guys, gonna restart using a full real companions party.

How to build valerie to use her cha?

Most fun ranged build for avatar?

Just use mod to completely resculpt her into a new character. She's obnoxiously self-centred, poor at diplomacy, lacks people skills... fuck high charisma just because she's supposedly pretty.

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

 

[Incendax]

Isn't getting rid of vicious a positive thing? =)

Depends on how much healing you have in the party!
Like Tristian + Linzi can handle it without a sweat.

 

[Incendax]

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

It’s mostly irrelevant beyond Level 5. Without doing any kind of shenanigans, you can easily make her a solid tank AND DPS/Utility just going TSS5/Thug15 or TSS5/Kin15.

You don’t even need TSS at all, of course. TSS is generally worse than base Fighter.

 

[Yosharian]

So guys, gonna restart using a full real companions party.

How to build valerie to use her cha?

Most fun ranged build for avatar?

Just use mod to completely resculpt her into a new character. She's obnoxiously self-centred, poor at diplomacy, lacks people skills... fuck high charisma just because she's supposedly pretty.

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

Oh yeah, I just meant her stats. Her class/archetype isn't bad at all. But a fighter doesn't need 15 fucking charisma

Depends on how much healing you have in the party!
Like Tristian + Linzi can handle it without a sweat.

Yeah I suppose so

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

It’s mostly irrelevant beyond Level 5. Without doing any kind of shenanigans, you can easily make her a solid tank AND DPS/Utility just going TSS5/Thug15 or TSS5/Kin15.

You don’t even need TSS at all, of course. TSS is generally worse than base Fighter.

Yeah but there's some neat Tower Shields in the game. The one that grants that Deflection bonus is particularly good.

 

[Incendax]

Yeah but there's some neat Tower Shields in the game. The one that grants that Deflection bonus is particularly good.

Any Fighter can use Tower Shields, not just Tower Shield Specialists. So it's about what you are gaining for those 20 levels vs some other class, and in my opinion the gain from TSS beyond Level 5 makes baby ghandi weep.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah but there's some neat Tower Shields in the game. The one that grants that Deflection bonus is particularly good.

Any Fighter can use Tower Shields, not just Tower Shield Specialists. So it's about what you are gaining for those 20 levels vs some other class, and in my opinion the gain from TSS beyond Level 5 makes baby ghandi weep.

Hmm. Isn't it just a straight up +2 to attack rolls? What do you lose?

 

[Sykar]

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

It’s mostly irrelevant beyond Level 5. Without doing any kind of shenanigans, you can easily make her a solid tank AND DPS/Utility just going TSS5/Thug15 or TSS5/Kin15.

You don’t even need TSS at all, of course. TSS is generally worse than base Fighter.

Evasion, immunity to flanking/sneak attack and TS bonus to AC against touch attacks are at the very least worthwhile features to have. Burst Barrier is nice too if you bother to get the reflex save feats. That's like up to +9 to reflex saves which is a lot and considering that she is swimming in feats there should be no problem getting them. There are also some nice extras like moving at normal speed in heavy armor at level 7, 5/- damage reduction, etc.
As for utility, with that many feats you can easily go for dazzling display and the critical debuff series.

 

[Yosharian]

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

It’s mostly irrelevant beyond Level 5. Without doing any kind of shenanigans, you can easily make her a solid tank AND DPS/Utility just going TSS5/Thug15 or TSS5/Kin15.

You don’t even need TSS at all, of course. TSS is generally worse than base Fighter.

Evasion, immunity to flanking/sneak attack and TS bonus to AC against touch attacks are at the very least worthwhile features to have. Burst Barrier is nice too if you bother to get the reflex save feats. That's like up to +9 to reflex saves which is a lot and considering that she is swimming in feats there should be no problem getting them. There are also some nice extras like moving at normal speed in heavy armor at level 7, 5/- damage reduction, etc.
As for utility, with that many feats you can easily go for dazzling display and the critical debuff series.

Yeah the bonus to Touch AC is really nice. Is it worth the 9 levels it requires, though?

Flanking immunity essentially amounts to +2AC and cannot be sneak attacked, right?

 

[Sykar]

Yeah but there's some neat Tower Shields in the game. The one that grants that Deflection bonus is particularly good.

Any Fighter can use Tower Shields, not just Tower Shield Specialists. So it's about what you are gaining for those 20 levels vs some other class, and in my opinion the gain from TSS beyond Level 5 makes baby ghandi weep.

Beyond 5 we still get greater weapon focus and specialization, several useful crit feats, crap ton of feats which no other class will ever get, and even evasion, which as I said before if you bother to get the lightning reflex feats is actually useful. Going thug, we lose an attack, up to +5 BAB, hitpoints, a lot less AC against touch attacks, no immunity to flanking, less fortitide saves. Furthermore she can get up to another +4 dex bonus in heavy armor, meaning you can buff her dexterity up to 20, which is no problem by getting dexterity to 14 and a +6 dex item, which in turn means as a thug we also lose substantial amount of AC. Other armor does not nearly profit as much from the increase in effective dexterity bonus since Valerie's dexterity is too low to achieve something like +9 dexterity modifier if you'd try it for studded leather armor.

Fighter suits her best though from her background. I do not understand what the problem is with Tower Shield figher, it is a good tank and you can splash in Stalward Defender for example.

It’s mostly irrelevant beyond Level 5. Without doing any kind of shenanigans, you can easily make her a solid tank AND DPS/Utility just going TSS5/Thug15 or TSS5/Kin15.

You don’t even need TSS at all, of course. TSS is generally worse than base Fighter.

Evasion, immunity to flanking/sneak attack and TS bonus to AC against touch attacks are at the very least worthwhile features to have. Burst Barrier is nice too if you bother to get the reflex save feats. That's like up to +9 to reflex saves which is a lot and considering that she is swimming in feats there should be no problem getting them. There are also some nice extras like moving at normal speed in heavy armor at level 7, 5/- damage reduction, etc.
As for utility, with that many feats you can easily go for dazzling display and the critical debuff series.

Yeah the bonus to Touch AC is really nice. Is it worth the 9 levels it requires, though?

Flanking immunity essentially amounts to +2AC and cannot be sneak attacked, right?

And no outflank AoOs if the enemy has them. Is it worth it? I think so, but that is up to personal opinion. Regardless what people claim, splashing in other classes will impact her tanking ability to some degree. It is up to you how much defense you feel is worthwhile giving up. Similar to splash in for casters who might get some immediate power, see Arcane Trickster, but suffer long term by gaining important new spell levels later in addition to having more trouble penetrating spell resistance, worse concentration checks and shorter durations and lower damage until damage capand reaching said cap later.

 

[Haplo]

Well shit.

Yep. Imagine you're using Champion of Graves. You add in Fire, Lightning, and Cold damage for whatever reason. You think you're going to deal 6d6 damage every swing, but the 3d6 Negative Energy has dropped off! The "unique" enchantments on the weapons get temporarily bumped off, which can be quite a bummer when you suddenly lose benefits like Brilliant Energy or Improved Speed.

Is this really going to affect mid-game play though? Seems like much more of a lategame thing, level 16+...

Admittedly my character has 7 levels allocated to other classes, so it's much less of an issue for me

My understanding is that Bane Blade is a sepa

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Valeria can be a very good kinetic knight or splash in thug for going the dazzling display route.

 

[Yosharian]

And no outflank AoOs if the enemy has them. Is it worth it? I think so, but that is up to personal opinion. Regardless what people claim, splashing in other classes will impact her tanking ability to some degree. It is up to you how much defense you feel is worthwhile giving up. Similar to splash in for casters who might get some immediate power, see Arcane Trickster, but suffer long term by gaining important new spell levels later in addition to having more trouble penetrating spell resistance, worse concentration checks and shorter durations and lower damage until damage capand reaching said cap later.

I mean, on the other hand you could just grab an Eldritch Knight

 

[Cael]

Getting rid of vicious with Magus blae /Paladin enchants is a brilliant idea btw. It is a bug though. You simply should not be able / allowed to add enchantments that exceed the limits given by the rules.

There are no limit to effects on a weapon by spells. There never was.

In 3.5, a classic move is to get a +1 weapon of (total +9 equivalent effects) and then cast Greater Magic Weapon on it. Same with armour/shield and Magic Vestments, although there aren't really all that many +x equivalent enchantments worth the price for armour.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

There are no limit to effects on a weapon by spells. There never was.

Yes there is in PF.

DnD:
In addition to an enhancement bonus, weapons may have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

PF:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10.