Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[golgepapaz]

Alignment: LN

Race: Tiefling (Motherless) (Bite 1)
Stats:
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 7

Build : 17 Alchemist (Vivi) / 2 Dragon disciple /1 Sorcerer

Lvl 1: Alcehmist - Combat Expertise
Lvl 2: Alchemist - Feral Mutagen (Bite 2)
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Trip
Lvl 4: Alchemist - Infusion
Lvl 5: Sorcerer - Fury's Fall // Concentration or some metamagic feat if it applies to alchemist spells?
Lvl 6: Dragon Disciple - Some Dragon bloodline
Lvl 7: Dragon Disciple - Improved Unarmed Strike / Power Attack (bite 3)
Lvl 8: Alchemist -
Lvl 9: Alchemist - outflank / Feral Wings
Lvl 10: Alchemist-
Lvl 11: Alcehmist - Gretater Trip / Accomplished sneak attacker
Lvl 12: Alcehmist -
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Combat reflexes /Seize the moment
Lvl 14: Alchemist
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Blind Fight / Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Alchemist
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Cornugon Smash / preserve organs
Lvl 18: Alchemist
Lvl 19: Alchemist - Arcane Strike / Grand Mutagen
Lvl 20: Alchemist

Main point is have 5 attacks at level 7 with full bab with sneak attack damage. this build depends on trip cloak obviously.
Tried to incorporate shatter defenses but does not have the feats for them unfortunately.
No monk dips allowed but I wonder can i replace some feats with unarmed styles.

Can't help the feeling you're making it difficult for yourself... needlessly.
Did you check my original build? The few alterations you've made weaken it A LOT.

No monk, sure, I can kinda understand the sentiment.



But in addition no Fauchard proficiency for Mastery with +5 CMB and bonus strike on each trip?

Yeah found out your build after starting this. Thing is this a DPR build that would go with no weapons .
Snikt,snikt ,rip, rip, chomp, chomp, gnaw. Blanka style.

I'm not going to try soloing the game consider this kind of an off-tank with alchemist spells.

No Mirror Image for protection late game?

where do you get this? bard spell list? Can I get dragon disciple with one level of bard?

No Uncanny Dodge?

Looking at your build I am guessing this requires 2 bard levels. that would gimp my DPR and I'll probably lose Legendary props and transformation (if alchemists get them)

Cornugon Smash? WHY - you don't have Shatter Defenses! Which is kinda vital BOTH to make hitting enemies much easier AND to deny their Dex CMD bonus and Trip them much easier.

Yeah, other options did not make much more sense at that level. In order to get the shatter defenses I'll need 3 feats so I have to drop power attack, Cornugan smash and something else. Probably blind fight.

Also no Crippling Strike?

Pick instead of wings or preserve organs? I've found out if use eldritch arcana mod I can get wings as a spell.

You're also missing out on Opportunist by not going bard.

I've thought alchemist would get this as well. class template says alchemist gets advanced rogue talents but I couldn't find this during level up

Back to the drawing board!

I'll try this with two bard levels. I am guessing sneak attack damage would still be 9d6.

 

[Desiderius]

DPR?

 

[golgepapaz]

DPR?

Damage Per Round

 

[Yosharian]

Stacking bite attacks is just hilarious

Have you no shame

 

[Desiderius]

New playthrough with (ranged) Psychokineticist. Had no idea about Mental Overflow.

Anybody played this bad boy?

 

[Haplo]

No Mirror Image for protection late game?

where do you get this? bard spell list? Can I get dragon disciple with one level of bard?

Bard (or sorc) level 4. Or Bard/sorc level 2 + DD min. level 3 (or 3+2).

No Uncanny Dodge?

Looking at your build I am guessing this requires 2 bard levels. that would gimp my DPR and I'll probably lose Legendary props and transformation (if alchemists get them)

2 ARCHEOLOGIST Bard levels to be precise. Or 4 levels in Rogue/Barb.

Alchemist does get these 2 buffs. However Legendary Proportions is not a Personal spell, so if you're not soloing and have a mage or druid, its not a problem. Transformation is very nice, sure, but it has a short duration so you can't exactly keep it up. You MIGHT be able to get some uses of it from an item. Maybe.

Cornugon Smash? WHY - you don't have Shatter Defenses! Which is kinda vital BOTH to make hitting enemies much easier AND to deny their Dex CMD bonus and Trip them much easier.

Yeah, other options did not make much more sense at that level. In order to get the shatter defenses I'll need 3 feats so I have to drop power attack, Cornugan smash and something else. Probably blind fight.

Shatter Defences is like the best feat in the game, even more so for a Combat Maneuver build (denies enemy Dex bonus, also to CMD).
Power Attack is particularly bad for a Combat Maneuver build. You BOTH weaken the chance to connect your blows AND weaken your CMB - the chance to land the Maneuver.
Cornugon Smash sucks, it requires active Power Attack, is single target AND requires you to hit the enemy to benefit.
Blind Attack is less critical for an Alchemist with Echolocation, but still very useful end game. You have other sucky feats, though. Like Arcane Strike (+1 damage? really?) and Accomplished Sneak Attacker.

Also no Crippling Strike?

Pick instead of wings or preserve organs? I've found out if use eldritch arcana mod I can get wings as a spell.

Crippling Strike is important, as it also lowers enemy CMD.
Preserve organs might be nice for a build with lesser AC, but you'd need to pick it 2-3 times to have an appreciable effect...

You're also missing out on Opportunist by not going bard.

I've thought alchemist would get this as well. class template says alchemist gets advanced rogue talents but I couldn't find this during level up

Its not on Alchemist list, so you need bard or rogue levels for it to appear.

 

[Yosharian]

Does anyone know where to find the TWIN SERPENTS quarterstaff?

 

[Yosharian]

Or 'RUIN'?

 

[Desiderius]

Or 'RUIN'?

Ruin is from a relatively early IIRC Diplomat/Magister Rank Up dialogue.

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

What difficulty should I use for my first playthrough?
Also, should I use the turn based mod? Is it good or is it easily broken?

 

[Haplo]

Or 'RUIN'?

Ruin is from a relatively early IIRC Diplomat/Magister Rank Up dialogue.

True, if you make correct choices and then pick a magic artifact as a reward. But it can also be gotten another way. Artisan?

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah found out your build after starting this. Thing is this a DPR build that would go with no weapons .
Snikt,snikt ,rip, rip, chomp, chomp, gnaw. Blanka style.

Shatter is less of a fit for this sort of toon than for a pure Tripper build. One of the major benefits of natural attacks is getting more attacks at full BAB, so less need for Shatter to help land iteratives, plus with all those extra attacks less need to trigger Trip on each one. AoOs are less good for builds focusing on tons of attacks vs one big one, so Opportunist could just be meh anyway.

He can probably get away with not worrying about Shatter or Image since he's playing Hard (not Unfair, so don't need to worry about one shots) with party. For same reason Power Attack becomes good around midgame with party support.

Main thing he needs above all else in Pounce to get all those extra attacks in. I see three options.

(1) Alchemist class straight up as designed (actually using your Beast Shape Spells). You'll end up with Smilodon with three tripping bites/four claws at 16. Can use Leopard to get Pounce/decent AC midgame. I'll play around with it to see whether DD is really necessary.

(2) Barb Animal Totems. Claws are currently stacking, Pounce at Great Totem, Can add another Bite optionally.

(3) Sensei Pummeling Style. Fits well with Motherless which gets boost to WIS and STR. Two free Trips, Pounce, and DR bypass.

Also, duh, any Druid shapeshifting with Motherless WIS

 

[Desiderius]

What difficulty should I use for my first playthrough?
Also, should I use the turn based mod? Is it good or is it easily broken?

Both. TB can be decent for learning, but hitting moving targets is a big part of the game.

Start on Easy while you're learning the ropes then turn up difficulty whenever it gets boring.

 

[Desiderius]

After testing several options looks like ideal for Motherless Blanka-type dude would be WIS-based Druid (Blight would be fun for this, DofTW most powerful) to take advantage of Motherless WIS with Barb Splash for Dodge/Fury Bite and Alch Splash for Feral Bite/STR Mutagen.

Pure lategame dominance go Druid 15 first to get Frightful Aspect. For more levels of Blanka goodness go:

Druid 6 (Leopard Pounce) -> Alch 2 -> Barb 2 -> Druid 10.

Alternatively if you want Druid pet use some Mad Dog/Huntmaster levels for Tandem Tripping goodness.

DD splash is too clunky for just one bite/+2 STR.

 

[Yosharian]

Or 'RUIN'?

Ruin is from a relatively early IIRC Diplomat/Magister Rank Up dialogue.

True, if you make correct choices and then pick a magic artifact as a reward. But it can also be gotten another way. Artisan?

I think this is a myth, I found some forum sources indicating that Kimo makes it, but Einharj's master list doesn't have it and I trust that source

 

[dbouya]

I'm looking for advice on my full companion party.

I know it's ideal for the MC to be a tank, but I've foolishly decided my main is going to be a gnome arcane sorcerer. So that position is already locked.
I don't care about keeping characters within a theme, but I do 100% care about cheating, I 100% will not cheat to change any starting classes/feats/alignments.

ATM, I'm thinking I might go noknok and valerie on the frontline, ekun/jubi/maincharacter on the backline. With either harrim/tristan/or jaethal clericing in the middle potentially with a polearm.

I wanted to run jaethal tank, for all the cool undead bonuses, but, well, I just cannot think of anyway to make it work, because if jaethal were to multiclass to improve her tanking, I'd need then harrim/tristian/linzi to be somehow able to heal jaethal (my solution for this would be to mystic theurge so i can spontaneously turn nukes into inflict wounds to heal jaethal, while at the same time spontaneously turning buffs into normal heals for the rest of the party)....

Before I recruit noknok I might tryout amiri standing on the frontline and linzi standing in back where jubi will eventually go.
Basically every single one of these builds is till in the open (although my party is now up to lvl4, in act1, hard), and up for the debate. I'd love a way to somehow end up with a druid so I recruited a level 1 mercenary to bulk up the party before the ancient tomb.

I do like linzi, and I love bards, but ATM I'm reasonably commited to trying to make valerie into a tank bard, because valerie is just more interesting lore wise to me than linzi.... I do kind of wish I could keep all the companions in the party! but of course there isn't room for that.


Leveling so far:
MC gnome arcane sorcerer, pure sorcerer, precise shot+conjfocus+spellspecialization casts mage armor and grease mostly.
valerie 1 tss/ 3 bard took crane style
amiri 1 barb/ 2 sacred huntsman (just for the pet, since eventually I'm planning to bench her)
harrim pure cleric took perception skill focus since he's now benched for
tristan pure cleric so far
linzi not being used
octavia standard 1rogue/7wiz/10arcanetricker build
regonar undecided, can't leave oleg's until I decide what leveling option to pick for him!
mercenary druid a full level behind everyone, probably about to be benched for regonar (regonar and octavia were just recruited and I wanted to head back to oleg's to work out how I wanted to level them.)

Essentially once I figure out a build for regonar I'll be full companion party of:
MC+valeriebard+amiri sacredhunter+tristiancleric+octavia AT build+regonar whatever.

Then I'll fire regonar for ekun, and fire octavia for jubilost and then fire amiri for noknok. I guess.

Anyways if there's a problem with this lineup, or there's a better build, or alternate lineup you'd suggest I'm all ears. Just don't suggest any mercenaries. I've never beaten the game before and I want to hear as many companion voice lines, opinions, etc, as possible.

P.S. I went with leopard because leopard's are really strong level 4-6, and pretty strong level 1-3. Both of the character's with leopards aren't going to be in the party, once I get access to all the companions. (level 7 is when all the better pets unlock their full powers).

 

[Desiderius]

I'm looking for advice on my full companion party.

It's best for MC to be ranged. Most companions are melee. Okbo is a great companion for Jub. You don't really need to heal or tank if you CC/kill fast. Valerie is an excellent Tank Bard.

 

[Shadenuat]

It's fine party. Reg I'd keep Magus, he's as good as they come and another touch ac attacker + Octavia is nifty.

If you're going Huntsmaster look up trip + sieze initiative etc. to stack AOOs it's quite op.

 

[dbouya]

It's fine party. Reg I'd keep Magus, he's as good as they come and another touch ac attacker + Octavia is nifty.

If you're going Huntsmaster look up trip + sieze initiative etc. to stack AOOs it's quite op.

yeah, uh, I went leopard specifically for access to trip (although other animals have it too)... but what does seize the moment have to do with trip?

 

[Desiderius]

It's fine party. Reg I'd keep Magus, he's as good as they come and another touch ac attacker + Octavia is nifty.

If you're going Huntsmaster look up trip + sieze initiative etc. to stack AOOs it's quite op.

yeah, uh, I went leopard specifically for access to trip (although other animals have it too)... but what does seize the moment have to do with trip?

Huntmaster lets your pet get teamwork feats like tandem trip and seize the moment.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Thunder Caller vs Regular Bard - which is better and why?

 

[Desiderius]

Thunder Caller vs Regular Bard - which is better and why?

Each have their positives, but at the end of the day Sonic Burst is a (highly underrated) second level Cleric/Bard spell and Dirge of Doom is a unique and essential effect.

 

[TheGreatKazzan]

Hey. How bad of an idea is a Dex based Inquisitor duelist?

 

[Desiderius]

Hey. How bad of an idea is a Dex based Inquisitor duelist?

Duelist likes INT and Inquisitor likes WIS, but you can make anything work if you put your mind to it. Duelist likes to fight one-on-one so maybe a Monster Tactician to tie up the other mobs?

Inq 20 is surprisingly fun due to all the effects getting better with level.

If you're set on Duelist their unique ability is Parry which takes a super high attack bonus and so goes well with Combat Maneuvers.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Thunder Caller vs Regular Bard - which is better and why?

Each have their positives, but at the end of the day Sonic Burst is a (highly underrated) second level Cleric/Bard spell and Dirge of Doom is a unique and essential effect.

Does Dirge of Doom scale up? Would it be effective on Hard at lvls 15+? Doing a full merc run and spot #6 is a utility type and Thundercaller is in now but having 2nd thoughts.