Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[hell bovine]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Should you need one? The 'evil companions are powerful and all but being evil is not really possible' thing Baldurs Gate did is unnecessary here. You can be a Goodly ruler or an Evil tyrant. Or something in between with its own personality. You can gloat at your enemies, reap vengeance upon rival states and work your subjects dry. Or you can proclaim virtues of rule, be friendly towards other countries and tax people reasonably. Story paths should be valid in their own right. No carrots needed for evil characters since the stick is busy hitting peasants all night.

You might not remember the early days of kingdom management, when kingdoms could easily collapse by losing stability, peasants would get out the pitchforks shouting "the Romans never did anything for us!" (nevermind that invasion of monsters you've just defended them from) and riots would take over your capital. But a chaotic neutral baron could proudly proclaim "no taxes!" and suddenly everyone was happy, and your kingdom was saved.

 

[Jvegi]

I mean the cleric ability to damage undead around him. Turn Undead, I'm not sure if it's called the same here.

AoE, centered on the caster. Casted multiple times by two clerics. They were face to face with the undead, with only a doorstep between them. The opening was wide enough to fit at least 4 people. It had no effect, no rolls were made by the undead. I had to run in behind them through attacks of opportunity to damage them.

It's called Channel Energy, but can be confusing for new players. The Gold one heals your team, the Teal one damages Undead. Since those are the first Undead you've likely encountered it's possible you haven't figured that out yet. I didn't even use the ability my first time and was confused about it for a long time.

Those Undead are meant to be challenging, they're also entirely optional and don't give much EXP. Loot's ok. If you're losing your Bard for that second Cleric that could make the game more difficult.

Listen fucko. I don't know which one it was, but it was dealing damage when I was inside the room, and it wasn't when I was outside.

I have figured it out. How about you figure out how to not be such an obtuse boring dick.

 

[Rieser]

Someone hit a nerve.

How much weed did you need to smoke to kill yours?

I'm like teflon. Nothing sticks.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

At the Staglord Fortress, I typically have 2 characters spamming Daze to prevent enemies from raising them alarm. I can think of 4 encounters prior to the boss fight where enemies will run to the alarm after X time or Y damage/losses. Chasing them is almost a guarantee to trigger another encounter. Managing the alarm is my #1 challenge on that map. Pulling individual enemies to the gates sounds more like a myth. I would need to see it demonstrated to believe it.

 

[Parabalus]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Should you need one? The 'evil companions are powerful and all but being evil is not really possible' thing Baldurs Gate did is unnecessary here. You can be a Goodly ruler or an Evil tyrant. Or something in between with its own personality. You can gloat at your enemies, reap vengeance upon rival states and work your subjects dry. Or you can proclaim virtues of rule, be friendly towards other countries and tax people reasonably. Story paths should be valid in their own right. No carrots needed for evil characters since the stick is busy hitting peasants all night.

You might not remember the early days of kingdom management, when kingdoms could easily collapse by losing stability, peasants would get out the pitchforks shouting "the Romans never did anything for us!" (nevermind that invasion of monsters you've just defended them from) and riots would take over your capital. But a chaotic neutral baron could proudly proclaim "no taxes!" and suddenly everyone was happy, and your kingdom was saved.

But those aren't even locked behind [Requires CN].

 

[Desiderius]

Someone hit a nerve.

How much weed did you need to smoke to kill yours?

I'm like teflon. Nothing sticks.

And yet your appetite for the ankles of better men remains unsated. Was this all you’d hoped for?

 

[Desiderius]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Should you need one? The 'evil companions are powerful and all but being evil is not really possible' thing Baldurs Gate did is unnecessary here. You can be a Goodly ruler or an Evil tyrant. Or something in between with its own personality. You can gloat at your enemies, reap vengeance upon rival states and work your subjects dry. Or you can proclaim virtues of rule, be friendly towards other countries and tax people reasonably. Story paths should be valid in their own right. No carrots needed for evil characters since the stick is busy hitting peasants all night.

You might not remember the early days of kingdom management, when kingdoms could easily collapse by losing stability, peasants would get out the pitchforks shouting "the Romans never did anything for us!" (nevermind that invasion of monsters you've just defended them from) and riots would take over your capital. But a chaotic neutral baron could proudly proclaim "no taxes!" and suddenly everyone was happy, and your kingdom was saved.

The Poz = libertarianism gone wild. Checks out.

 

[Mangoose]

At the Staglord Fortress, I typically have 2 characters spamming Daze to prevent enemies from raising them alarm. I can think of 4 encounters prior to the boss fight where enemies will run to the alarm after X time or Y damage/losses. Chasing them is almost a guarantee to trigger another encounter. Managing the alarm is my #1 challenge on that map. Pulling individual enemies to the gates sounds more like a myth. I would need to see it demonstrated to believe it.

Well I kinda tripped the alarm on the way in, so I had already killed everybody in the front of the camp. I didn't "pull" the patsies next to the Staglord, I tricked them into following me. Which IIRC I did actually have to do a little work to "aggro" them and make sure they didn't go back. Thankfully, I was using a Monster Inquisitor so I just Summoned Wolves BEHIND me and then went towards the gate. Either they ran at the wolves, the wolves ran at them, or they ran to me.

That was the job for ONE of my characters. Now, if he (Harrim) died, then they still would've been too far away to protect the Staglord from my other 5 teammates.

Not sure if I was clear but I didn't pull individuals to the gate. I had the mob chase Harrim to the gate while everybody else was by the Staglord. The minions didn't matter to me. They could die, they could kill Harrim, but that kept them busy.

Got a little annoying actually because my Wolves would run to them while still too close to the Staglord. Pretty sure I let them hit Harrim a few times to make sure they chased him.

The key to tactics is knowing how to sacrifice pieces haha

 

[Mangoose]

So here is how I set up at first... and assassinated the Stag Lord. (Hint: invis potions. Had him flanked before I started the battle lmao) This is immediately after assassination.

But then still got that mob down there. So. Harrim. Go.

Far enough away, main team killed the few that found me by the stairs. Actually I had a few party members on the stairs but blocked from vision, so that helped them go after the guy on the ground.

 

[Jvegi]

The fuck? You can rotate the camera?

 

[Mangoose]

The fuck? You can rotate the camera?

Yeah. I obsessively look for mods for about half a week before I actually play

ANYWAYS I am sorry for polluting the other thread so I'll pollute here... with Pathfinder/Pathfinder-Kingmaker builds that are GENERAL - and many people use - instead of being nichey:

1. Reach cleric. The guy who came up with idea thought.. clerics can melee but how can you melee and cast in the same turn? His solution: Cast on your turn, smack them with AoOs on their turn with your reach weapon. There's your real cleric gish. Goddamn creative and works pretty damn well... granted you have to dump Cha and Int and probably tone down Con and Wis.

2. Alchemist bomber on crack: Fast Bombs + TWF/ITFW/GTFW.

3. If you can, use Dirty Fighting instead of Combat Expertise as prereqs for later feats. Sadly you'll need it for Gang Up and Dirty Trick. Also, you don't need Agile Maneuvers for Trips or Disarms because those can rely on Weapon Finesse. But Dirty Trick doesn't, so you'll need that or the halfling Intrepid trait (just get yourself adopted). Well, you can also get Dirty Trick as a Rogue talent without prereqs but... there are other also good competitors for those Talents. Decisions, decisions.

4. Just made Regongar a Skald last night (never played one before, and I'm already Magus) and I almost shat myself reading that the Skald Rage Song also gives Rage Powers to your party.

5. I realized the tradeoff of Spellstrike is that you're trading casting touch AC in return for hitting them with a combined attack (both spell and strike) against "regular AC." And I think that if you also are doing Spell Combat, you are getting another hit in (cost of -2 on the attack roll of course).

 

[Yosharian]

I don't think TWF works with Bombs in the base game, unless they changed it? Rapid Shot does though

 

[Desiderius]

Fast Bombs is all you need. Or not, I like just one per round in any case.

Bombs aren’t really a weapon.

 

[Mangoose]

I dunno, I just saw a build that assumed it works.

But they are thrown splash weapons actually. Thus the "Throw Anything" feat.

 

[Desiderius]

Making DD good (better than the alternatives):

Sorc base: no, just nuke shit

Slow spell base: no just get your class benefits, wastes DD fast spell progression

Martial base with Sorc splash: no just go EK

Scaled Fist Monk base with Dragon Style to double STR-bonus: DD tacks on fast spell progression and Dragon Form

Let’s do this.

^ Top Reply

 

[Mangoose]

Making DD good (better than the alternatives):

Sorc base: no, just nuke shit

Slow spell base: no just get your class benefits, wastes DD fast spell progression

Martial base with Sorc splash: no just go EK

Scaled Fist Monk base with Dragon Style to double STR-bonus: DD tacks on fast spell progression and Dragon Form

Let’s do this.

Wow, good call on the Scaled Fist DD.

How about Bloodrager?

 

[Efe]

what is DD fast spell progression? aren't you losing 1 level of progression every 4 levels starting with 1?

 

[Desiderius]

There are ways around that in CotW. If you take a slow base class it still skips the levels but it’s slow on top of that.

I’m looking at maybe just Personal buff spells supplemented by the free spell-like but I like getting up to the Fear, and base Sorc does but slow class doesn’t.

So Monk4/Sorc1/DD10 gets you to Fear + another lvl 4 spell. You can take Prestigious Spellcaster if you like to fill in blank levels.

Filling out with Monk gets you to Deadly Juggernaut lols - given Dragon Pathing will probably have to get Abundant Step instead.

 

[Mangoose]

There are ways around that in CotW. If you take a slow base class it still skips the levels but it’s slow on top of that.

I’m looking at maybe just Personal buff spells supplemented by the free spell-like but I like getting up to the Fear, and base Sorc does but slow class doesn’t.

So Monk4/Sorc1/DD10 gets you to Fear + another lvl 4 spell. You can take Prestigious Spellcaster if you like to fill in blank levels.

Filling out with Monk gets you to Deadly Juggernaut lols - given Dragon Pathing will probably have to get Abundant Step instead.

The nice thing about Pathfinder is that these builds are neither OP nor necessary, but they play on par and you just get to have fun with creativity. Not to mention they added things you might want but you'd have to stay in class long enough to grab it. Better pacing. Though a pounce earlier than Level 10 would be nice.

3e omg.. the multclassing.

 

[Mangoose]

what is DD fast spell progression? aren't you losing 1 level of progression every 4 levels starting with 1?

Yeah. So you better grab Magical Knack. (I think most prestige classes do the same)

 

[Efe]

so what is fast about it?

 

[Desiderius]

Goes up every three levels instead of four. Sorc1/DD10 can cast lvl 4 spells. Archeologist 2/DD10 can’t.

 

[Mangoose]

so what is fast about it?

Well... tbh I"m not sure if DD is faster or slower in terms of spell progression. Seems like they're all the same in terms of that. The Prestiges that don't add spell progression, for example, are a lot slower than the DD at adding spell progression.

... Actually looks like Arcane Trickster is full progression. Nevertheless, it seems like (A) the ones that increase casting level are pretty much the same, losing maybe a level or two of spells but obviously a tradeoff for a hopefully better mechanic. (B) Paizo hasn't really spent much time with Prestige Classes. The "core" prestige classes are directly from 3e's core lol. And then I heard there's an interesting "Rage Prophet" but that's about it.

But IMO that's fine because they used the archetype mechanic to make significant differences instead. You can't - and you shouldn't - do everything.

K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Silly is the core of all engineering lol.

 

[Efe]

The Prestiges that don't add spell progression, for example, are a lot slower than the DD at adding spell progression.

Paradox Mage?

 

[Desiderius]

Mangoose is... not always exactly on point.

Prestige Classes that retain spell progression all retain them at the same speed as whatever original class one chooses to progress. DD skips advancement at DD1, 4, or 7 while AT doesn't skip any at all. In that sense it's slower than AT.