Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

Goes up every three levels instead of four. Sorc1/DD10 can cast lvl 4 spells. Archeologist 2/DD10 can’t.

 

[Mangoose]

so what is fast about it?

Well... tbh I"m not sure if DD is faster or slower in terms of spell progression. Seems like they're all the same in terms of that. The Prestiges that don't add spell progression, for example, are a lot slower than the DD at adding spell progression.

... Actually looks like Arcane Trickster is full progression. Nevertheless, it seems like (A) the ones that increase casting level are pretty much the same, losing maybe a level or two of spells but obviously a tradeoff for a hopefully better mechanic. (B) Paizo hasn't really spent much time with Prestige Classes. The "core" prestige classes are directly from 3e's core lol. And then I heard there's an interesting "Rage Prophet" but that's about it.

But IMO that's fine because they used the archetype mechanic to make significant differences instead. You can't - and you shouldn't - do everything.

K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Silly is the core of all engineering lol.

 

[Efe]

The Prestiges that don't add spell progression, for example, are a lot slower than the DD at adding spell progression.

Paradox Mage?

 

[Desiderius]

Mangoose is... not always exactly on point.

Prestige Classes that retain spell progression all retain them at the same speed as whatever original class one chooses to progress. DD skips advancement at DD1, 4, or 7 while AT doesn't skip any at all. In that sense it's slower than AT.

 

[Mangoose]

Mangoose is... not always exactly on point.

Prestige Classes that retain spell progression all retain them at the same speed as whatever original class one chooses to progress. DD skips advancement at DD1, 4, or 7 while AT doesn't skip any at all. In that sense it's slower than AT.

Yeah I'm just really high and I rely on others to clarify.

 

[Desiderius]

Turns out Warpriests are pretty good in TB since you want to fill up all your action slots each turn and Blessings and Fervor give you a wide variety of Swift Actions and a couple Move Actions.

I mean you want to in RTwP too but good luck. Arcane Strike also gets a lot better (probably was better than I was giving it credit for in RTwP if your Autocast is free) in TB. Especially with CotW giving you Riving Strike.

 

[Desiderius]

Turning on Coordinated and Enfilading Shot via Warpriest getting Point Blank Master due to his unlocking Feats as Fighter (also unlocks at full BAB so will get Improved Precise much earlier). Sacred Weapon Throwing Axe with TWF by midgame.

Forester Tactician backup.

 

[Mangoose]

Turns out Warpriests are pretty good in TB since you want to fill up all your action slots each turn and Blessings and Fervor give you a wide variety of Swift Actions and a couple Move Actions.

Ah, yes, now you know what I meant. Forgot you were playing RTWP. TB is why I noticed certain classes like the Magus and Warpriest stand out in terms of Fighter/Mages or Fighter/Clerics gishing it up. It's ridiculously smooth how well the Magus plays. In TB. Even though the game wasn't made for TB. I guess that's why the Magus is a hit normally in PNP haha.

Actually the Magus shouldn't get all the credit. The touch spell channeling came from (I think) the Duskblade from D&D also 3.5e. Before that there were really poor attempts from the Bladesinger to the Hexblade. Duskblade is when they realize - hey, why don't we do some magic and melee in the same turn?

Given that Move->Action has and still is the popular convention for tabletop wargames and rpgs... Spellstrike is almost innovative in that respect. I mean, there's stuff like Spring Attack for agile characters/units, so the "Move" aspect has been played around with. But the "Action" (or Attack) phase... Honestly not a lot of 40k units can attack more than one thing at once.

 

[cloudropis]

I've seend Desiderius mention that Linzi can be okay as a melee attacker, or at least better than trying to stuff her with archery feats. I'm fully levelling her as a Bard and she's deadweight when not casting or singing, can I just throw Weapon Finesse and Outflank on her and expect her to perform decently, relying on Mirror Image, Mage Armor etc for defense, or should I aim for AC stacking through Crane Style and such if I don't want her to explode?

 

[razvedchiki]

halflings also have the caθtious fighter feat that adds another +2 to ac when they fight defensively.

 

[Desiderius]

Mage Armor? Crane Style?

What in the world are you people doing? She’s not soloing, and she has Light Armor proficiency.

I guess you can use Mage Armor until you find a decent Light Armor and get her enough Strength for a Shield.

I mean cast/sing/Dazzle first round then she doesn’t need a million AC if she joins melee after that due to Mirror Image.

With Inspire Courage and Good Hope she could be sitting there writing a book and be a solid contributor. But yeah Weapon Finesse and Agile weapons are how I usually go. Once you pick up Outflank you can get Improved Crit on an Agile Rapier or Putrid Blade and do some damage but mainly on the hard fights you want to be casting Slow and Shout and the like or trying to get in there with an Overwhelming Grief or Ki Shout on a Boss.

 

[gurugeorge]

I've seend Desiderius mention that Linzi can be okay as a melee attacker, or at least better than trying to stuff her with archery feats. I'm fully levelling her as a Bard and she's deadweight when not casting or singing, can I just throw Weapon Finesse and Outflank on her and expect her to perform decently, relying on Mirror Image, Mage Armor etc for defense, or should I aim for AC stacking through Crane Style and such if I don't want her to explode?

There's a rather cool "Iron Halfling" build for Linzi by Roahin on the GoG forum.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah those are fun. I did Bard6/Thug4/AD6 FearingDisarmer on my Val Bard run.

If you’re not running a full Bard tho you’re gimping yourself. Several spells and abilities other classes can’t duplicate.

 

[cloudropis]

Crane Style doesn't require being naked right? Also I had Linzi run around with no armor as I never bothered to check if arcane spell failure applied to bards, and she got a failure once (I was probably webbed or something)

Anyway yeah I wanted to stick with full bard levelling and I was indeed looking for quick fix feats to take rather than dipping, plus I have an agile rapier lying around. I'll just take WF as the level 6 bard talent then. Wasn't sure if mirror image was enough defensively in case enemies disengaged my frontliners and tried to rush her down (if the AI even does that), also not having range and everything.

 

[Desiderius]

You don’t have the Feats to get Crane, nor should it work anyway with a shield. My general guide is:

What proficiencies do I have? Then I try to wear that. Proficiencies aren’t free.

Enemy Bards like to use Longspears but you’re DEX-based so Rapier/Buckler is eventually where you end up since there are some great Bucklers and the lower weight helps you manage Reduce Person.

You can of course also go two-weapon but then you waste your Shield Proficiency (Val casts fine as Bard with Tower!) and you don’t get the Shield spell. Of course Alchemists can cast it on you but the less buffs the better.

 

[AliceAlcina]

Question, how would you do BG to Pathfinder Jaheira build. You know druid fighter

 

[Cael]

Question, how would you do BG to Pathfinder Jaheira build. You know druid fighter

A 3.x Druid is by default a Druid/Fighter because of how multiple attacks work in that edition.

 

[AliceAlcina]

A 3.x Druid is by default a Druid/Fighter because of how multiple attacks work in that edition.

honestly, pure druid do not feel like Jaheira, because Jaheira wasn't just druid, she was druid/fighter.

 

[Cael]

A 3.x Druid is by default a Druid/Fighter because of how multiple attacks work in that edition.

honestly, pure druid do not feel like Jaheira, because Jaheira wasn't just druid, she was druid/fighter.

A Fighter 4/Druid 16 will get you all weapons and armour and 4 attacks a round (eventually). Maybe that is more palatable?

 

[AliceAlcina]

A 3.x Druid is by default a Druid/Fighter because of how multiple attacks work in that edition.

honestly, pure druid do not feel like Jaheira, because Jaheira wasn't just druid, she was druid/fighter.

A Fighter 4/Druid 16 will get you all weapons and armour and 4 attacks a round (eventually). Maybe that is more palatable?

that was my ideas as well. I feel like anymore than 4 fighter levels aren't doable, but also no less than two levels don't feel Jaheira.
I was also thinking about druid/monk, but I still think of how I try that work in IWD2 and couldn't. I think in 3.x I could afford more breathing space. Will try both builds, unless you guys at Codex have ready build ideas?

 

[Cael]

A 3.x Druid is by default a Druid/Fighter because of how multiple attacks work in that edition.

honestly, pure druid do not feel like Jaheira, because Jaheira wasn't just druid, she was druid/fighter.

A Fighter 4/Druid 16 will get you all weapons and armour and 4 attacks a round (eventually). Maybe that is more palatable?

that was my ideas as well. I feel like anymore than 4 fighter levels aren't doable, but also no less than two levels don't feel Jaheira.
I was also thinking about druid/monk, but I still think of how I try that work in IWD2 and couldn't. I think in 3.x I could afford more breathing space. Will try both builds, unless you guys at Codex have ready build ideas?

Monk 1 is more than enough usually, unless you want the free feat or Still Mind for something. Monk 4 is best for BAB, IIRC, but you are going to get 3 base attacks per round max either way.

Fighter 4 is the minimum for 4 base attacks a round by level 20, by the by.

 

[zapotec]

Is one attack more per round worth the loss of level 8 and level 9 spells? Unless i am forgetting something

 

[Cael]

Is one attack more per round worth the loss of level 8 and level 9 spells? Unless i am forgetting something

If you go above level 20, you will gain 9th level spells. However, the number of attacks you get is fixed at level 20. In a hack and slash game like NWN, Ftr 4/Drd 16 is worth it. In a normal PnP game? Not so much.

 

[Desiderius]

To “Dual/Multi-Class” in Pathfinder you’re better off playing a hybrid class than splashing since so many abilities scale with class level.

You’ll also get the slower spell/BAB progression that will feel like playing Jahiera that way. The closest thing to that in P:K which will also make a valuable contribution to the team is Freebooter Ranger with Two-Handed Combat Style to help with Cleave Feat.

Freebooter’s Bane is a Move Action so goes well with Cleave’s Standard Action. By midgame you’ll also have several valuable Druid spells, including the unique Lead Blades.

In Wrath you’ve got Forester Hunter that gets better Spells and 3/4 BAB.

 

[Seari]

The only good druid in kingmaker is pure Feyspeaker, no dipping. I used to dip monk but it's just not worth it, is what I've learned.
Pet progression + spells > monk ac