Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Tazar]

What is the point of rogues in a game with slayers, outside of a 1-4 level dip?

 

[Desiderius]

What is the point of rogues in a game with slayers, outside of a 1-4 level dip?

Play the game and find out.

You’ll see.

Splashes blow, especially redundant ones.

 

[Tazar]

Vanguard slayer x / knife master 3 is pretty nice, it's like a knife master with much better BAB basically. Maybe other rogue types offer more, that's why I'm asking, but I've only had experience with Nok-Nok.

 

[Desiderius]

SlayerX is better than Slayer/KM. The slightly larger sneak dice are wasted because you’re DEX-based.

As I said try both and see for yourself. Make sure to look at the Combat Log and pay attention to the most distinctive Rogue ability and how it scales (if you’re stopping at KM3 instead of 4 you haven’t yet) then compare straight Slayer with your splash.

 

[Tomasety]

Hello there.

I'm looking for a tank/damage dealer oriented build based on STR and CHA if possible. Could be a spellcaster or not, I don't really mind on that aspect as long he/she can be a decent tank in a similar way than Valerie and can also hit reliable.

I've tried several builds so far in the last weeks, the last was one of InEffect from 2018 found on gog forums, "Saint Vivisector" called but I had to rely on an cold iron longsword +1 till ACT 4 and I found myself dealing little damage and not be able to sustain much damage. I felt like Valerie with her Flaming Sword +1 was doing a better job than my MC overall.

I don't own paid DLCs, and would prefer to play without mods until I get a better knowledge of the game mechanics. I'm still learning and I prefer to play in turn-based mode unless battles are against trash mobs.

Thanks in advance.

Edit. Also if someone can point me out to a full walkthrough I would be much appreciated. I don't like much the official guide found on gamerguides

 

[Desiderius]

Best way to get good gear is to pay close attention to your Kingdom Management and acquire new regions, level up your ranks, and do your artisan quests as soon as they come up.

The way Pathfinder is designed you don't really need traditional "builds." There are several abilities that scale up with your class level so single-classing will never be bad. I great class for a beginner is just regular Fighter but the main thing that will help you is using your Bard song (Bard can sing and attack/cast at the same time) to boost your whole team and making sure you understand how buffs stack and using those as well. I like to make Amiri a Freebooter Ranger so she can use her Freebooter's Bane ability to soften up tough mobs and keep her out of trouble until the mobs can focus on Val or your main character.

 

[Tomasety]

Best way to get good gear is to pay close attention to your Kingdom Management and acquire new regions, level up your ranks, and do your artisan quests as soon as they come up.

Thanks for the reply. That's what Ive been doing through my several attempts on the game until ACT4 following an incompleted guide which was great and covered a lot of things I wasn't aware of.

I have to admit I followed InEffect build for Amiri as Freebooter and she was really great. But I cant say the same for my main character which was "X Sword Saint/Alchemist 1/Scaled Fist 1".

I also have to confess I'm certainly confused as why the game has no aggro control mechanic. Sometimes enemies are hitting Valerie and go for my squishies for no reason I suspect and I can't avoid that to happen. No taunt or provoke is what makes me feel so confused about this particular issue and why I believe all classes need to hit the enemies and not just stand as watching them pass by. I might be wrong on this assumption but its what I suspect it happens.

What I love about this game is that there are a lot of possibilities regarding classes and builds that feels like there's a lot of freedom on that aspect. As you said even single classes can do fine but I'm looking for something specific, something I can enjoy and I'm not sure I can find it. A tank-dps of some sort like Valerie but different. I can live with two dazzling display users but if one of them can cast or do something else better to me

 

[NJClaw]

I'm looking for a tank/damage dealer oriented build based on STR and CHA if possible. Could be a spellcaster or not, I don't really mind on that aspect as long he/she can be a decent tank in a similar way than Valerie and can also hit reliable.

You can't go wrong with a human (or aasimar) Paladin. You can go with DEX 12, CON 14, WIS 10, and the rest into STR and CHA. You don't really need to "plan" a build, Paladin 20 is perfectly fine. If you don't know what to do with your feats, giving Outflank, Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, and Shatter Defenses to all your melee characters won't hurt.

Being a "tank" in this game is more of a group effort than just building the right character: a big chunk of your AC comes from buffs (Shield of Faith and Magic Vestment from a Cleric, Barkskin and Shield from an Alchemist) and you will have to rely on other characters for those. As for "hitting things", Smite Evil is an instant win button against any evil creature, and Divine Weapon is a great buff. With Bestow Grace you're basically immune to any ST-based attack, and you can use your spells for some situational buff or to relieve some pressure from your Cleric's slots.

 

[Haplo]

Hmm, vanilla Valerie outperforming a SS MC? Sounds kinda insane TBH.
As long as you use the buffs and upgrade equipment, no other character comes close in tanking - and few come close in dealing damage - to a Sword Saint.

Not sure what your problem is, though.

Anyway, Desiderius' advice is good: a Bard + a Freebooter ranger will improve your martial prowess. Also make sure to take advantage of the Outflank feat. Preferably also debuffs/Combat Maneuvers, but that's slightly more advanced.

 

[Tomasety]

Hmm, vanilla Valerie outperforming a SS MC? Sounds kinda insane TBH.
As long as you use the buffs and upgrade equipment, no other character comes close in tanking - and few come close in dealing damage - to a Sword Saint.

Not sure what your problem is, though.

Anyway, Desiderius' advice is good: a Bard + a Freebooter ranger will improve your martial prowess. Also make sure to take advantage of the Outflank feat. Preferably also debuffs/Combat Maneuvers, but that's slightly more advanced.

Thanks for the reply and sorry for the confusion. Not really Vanilla Valerie. I think I followed InEffect Valerie build on my last attempt. Bear in mind this was up to lvl 12 which was when I ended ACT 4 I believe for my first time but I was unhappy with my main

And truth be told a bard is a must and probably a freebooter as well. I believe Valerie, Linzi, Amiri, Tristan and Jubilost are all great for a party composition just need my main to make it stick to them.
I have to admit as well that Debuffs and Combat Maneuvers are out of my league for now. I have been focusing more on buffing that debuffing. Maybe I should look more into that.

 

[Desiderius]

SS is not for beginners, and Vivi/SS is not for anyone.

Another example of InEffective setting back the game. Roughly 10% of the negative reviews I put at his feet and those like him, with "too each his own" people aiding and abetting.

 

[Desiderius]

And truth be told a bard is a must and probably a freebooter as well. I believe Valerie, Linzi, Amiri, Tristan and Jubilost are all great for a party composition just need my main to make it stick to them.
I have to admit as well that Debuffs and Combat Maneuvers are out of my league for now. I have been focusing more on buffing that debuffing. Maybe I should look more into that.

Freebooter isn't a must, but it definitely gives you an advantage because it stacks and is irresistible. Bard has unique effects that are hard to replace. Debuffing isn't that hard if you just keep Archon's Aura up and in range and set things up so that Dazzling Display can fire on time. There are some foes where you will need to attack their saves one way or another but Jewb is pretty handy for that.

CMs are a fun alternative angle of attack but aren't really very well supported or necessary.

 

[Desiderius]

Sounds like you're looking for two-handed Hospitaler. I really enjoyed my playthrough with that MC.

Don't shy away from Power Attack and you'll do plenty of damage, especially against the hardest mobs thx to Smite.

 

[gurugeorge]

Best way to get good gear is to pay close attention to your Kingdom Management and acquire new regions, level up your ranks, and do your artisan quests as soon as they come up.

Thanks for the reply. That's what Ive been doing through my several attempts on the game until ACT4 following an incompleted guide which was great and covered a lot of things I wasn't aware of.

I have to admit I followed InEffect build for Amiri as Freebooter and she was really great. But I cant say the same for my main character which was "X Sword Saint/Alchemist 1/Scaled Fist 1".

I also have to confess I'm certainly confused as why the game has no aggro control mechanic. Sometimes enemies are hitting Valerie and go for my squishies for no reason I suspect and I can't avoid that to happen. No taunt or provoke is what makes me feel so confused about this particular issue and why I believe all classes need to hit the enemies and not just stand as watching them pass by. I might be wrong on this assumption but its what I suspect it happens.

What I love about this game is that there are a lot of possibilities regarding classes and builds that feels like there's a lot of freedom on that aspect. As you said even single classes can do fine but I'm looking for something specific, something I can enjoy and I'm not sure I can find it. A tank-dps of some sort like Valerie but different. I can live with two dazzling display users but if one of them can cast or do something else better to me

You might be interested in this build, which starts off as a Divine Guardian paladin and ends up as a fairly hard-hitting tanky spellcaster (albeit only 7th level spells). I generally like Roahin's builds (and his companion builds, which are in another thread on GoG) better than InEffect's, they're less hyper-focused on min-maxing and they have more of a balance between rp (having a flavour to the build that makes some kind of sense rp-wise) and min-maxing.

But a lot depends on difficulty - if you're playing on normal or even the next level up, you can pretty much build as your fancy takes you (and I'd agree with the idea of a 2H Hospitaler paladin for your stated requirements). But higher than that you do need to start thinking seriously about min-maxing, and multi-classing options become more attractive too (though still not absolutely required).

 

[Desiderius]

Lol no they don’t.

90% of multi-classed builds are worse than single. This was the design philosophy behind Pathfinder from its inception and the obliviousness to that underlying dynamic has caused untold amounts of suckage.

You’re talking out of your stuck-in-3.5 ass, as the OP discovered much to his chagrin.

I posted and tested some multi-classed builds around Guardian and they were fine (basically double tanking) but couldn’t help noticing how much havoc the single class supporting class was wreaking while I was ploinking away.

The Unfair Tinman run I posted with Grenadier MC was almost all single classed.

 

[Tomasety]

Best way to get good gear is to pay close attention to your Kingdom Management and acquire new regions, level up your ranks, and do your artisan quests as soon as they come up.

Thanks for the reply. That's what Ive been doing through my several attempts on the game until ACT4 following an incompleted guide which was great and covered a lot of things I wasn't aware of.

I have to admit I followed InEffect build for Amiri as Freebooter and she was really great. But I cant say the same for my main character which was "X Sword Saint/Alchemist 1/Scaled Fist 1".

I also have to confess I'm certainly confused as why the game has no aggro control mechanic. Sometimes enemies are hitting Valerie and go for my squishies for no reason I suspect and I can't avoid that to happen. No taunt or provoke is what makes me feel so confused about this particular issue and why I believe all classes need to hit the enemies and not just stand as watching them pass by. I might be wrong on this assumption but its what I suspect it happens.

What I love about this game is that there are a lot of possibilities regarding classes and builds that feels like there's a lot of freedom on that aspect. As you said even single classes can do fine but I'm looking for something specific, something I can enjoy and I'm not sure I can find it. A tank-dps of some sort like Valerie but different. I can live with two dazzling display users but if one of them can cast or do something else better to me

You might be interested in this build, which starts off as a Divine Guardian paladin and ends up as a fairly hard-hitting tanky spellcaster (albeit only 7th level spells). I generally like Roahin's builds (and his companion builds, which are in another thread on GoG) better than InEffect's, they're less hyper-focused on min-maxing and they have more of a balance between rp (having a flavour to the build that makes some kind of sense rp-wise) and min-maxing.

But a lot depends on difficulty - if you're playing on normal or even the next level up, you can pretty much build as your fancy takes you (and I'd agree with the idea of a 2H Hospitaler paladin for your stated requirements). But higher than that you do need to start thinking seriously about min-maxing, and multi-classing options become more attractive too (though still not absolutely required).

Thanks for the link. The build looks interesting.

Is there an online builder for this game on the Internet?

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, it’s called autolevel.

Roahin’s fun, but he’s (mostly) wrong.

 

[razvedchiki]

is going ranger worth it for the lead blades spell? or you need to to go all the way with enlarge+oversized bastard swords for lead blades to have a meaning?
i dont have the game installed so cant check, but are lead blade scrolls for sale?

 

[Desiderius]

Going full Haplo is all about multiplication. So once you’re doing that anything that boosts the base has an outsized effect. Otherwise it’s a nice thing to have but far from game-breaking.

There is one wand you find early but no it’s not easy for non-Rangers to keep up apart from mods.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

All I am gonna say is, Believe in Cleave (line of feats).

Lead Blades+Legendary Proportions+Long Reach spell (CotW mod) Reach Weapon with Impact Property(can be made with Craft magic items mod)+2H Fighter+Eldritch heritage (abyssal - again mod)+Bard / Cleric Buffs + Improved Critical + Critical Focus etc.

just enough ranger levels to get lead blade/rest in 2H fighters/Maybe a few levels in Vanguard Slayer for sneak attacka dn studied strike. No loss in BaB. Main problem is getting enough CHA for Improved Eldritch Heritage with Maxed Str, but it is skippable. Works like a charm if you have buffbots in party.

 

[Haplo]

is going ranger worth it for the lead blades spell? or you need to to go all the way with enlarge+oversized bastard swords for lead blades to have a meaning?
i dont have the game installed so cant check, but are lead blade scrolls for sale?

No, you don't need oversized bastard swords to benefit from lead blades. But weapons with good hit dice are advised. At least d8. Even dual bastards are tempting (but need Fighter effortless dual wielding or some other trick).
In fact I've always felt tempted to try a dual bastard sword build like that - but its poor defensive qualifies discouraged me from it.

Enlarge/legendary proportions are ecommended for sure - they are a large damage boost either way.

Some builds focused on large hit dice could benefit from dipping Ecclesitheurge of Torag with Artifice domain - would get a few uses of Lead Blades at level 1 (but short duration - unless again, you use mods to get feats/traits to boost Caster Level).

 

[razvedchiki]

a scroll savant casting lead blades at his lvl from scrolls would be just sweet.

 

[Sykar]

And truth be told a bard is a must and probably a freebooter as well. I believe Valerie, Linzi, Amiri, Tristan and Jubilost are all great for a party composition just need my main to make it stick to them.
I have to admit as well that Debuffs and Combat Maneuvers are out of my league for now. I have been focusing more on buffing that debuffing. Maybe I should look more into that.

Freebooter isn't a must, but it definitely gives you an advantage because it stacks and is irresistible. Bard has unique effects that are hard to replace. Debuffing isn't that hard if you just keep Archon's Aura up and in range and set things up so that Dazzling Display can fire on time. There are some foes where you will need to attack their saves one way or another but Jewb is pretty handy for that.

CMs are a fun alternative angle of attack but aren't really very well supported or necessary.

I guess a FB is a "must" at the highest difficulty but Normal, Challenging and maybe Hard do not need one.

 

[NJClaw]

And truth be told a bard is a must and probably a freebooter as well. I believe Valerie, Linzi, Amiri, Tristan and Jubilost are all great for a party composition just need my main to make it stick to them.
I have to admit as well that Debuffs and Combat Maneuvers are out of my league for now. I have been focusing more on buffing that debuffing. Maybe I should look more into that.

Freebooter isn't a must, but it definitely gives you an advantage because it stacks and is irresistible. Bard has unique effects that are hard to replace. Debuffing isn't that hard if you just keep Archon's Aura up and in range and set things up so that Dazzling Display can fire on time. There are some foes where you will need to attack their saves one way or another but Jewb is pretty handy for that.

CMs are a fun alternative angle of attack but aren't really very well supported or necessary.

I guess a FB is a "must" at the highest difficulty but Normal, Challenging and maybe Hard do not need one.

I finished the game multiple times on Unfair without a Freebooter. An extra bonus to hit rolls is nice and all, but you can stack plenty of them even without Freebooter's Bane and Bond.

 

[Sykar]

Well I did put "must" in apostrophes for a reason.