Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

Conjuration is old hat, Evocation for Icy Prison and Necromancy for Wail shenanigans

Icy Prison is what, spell level 5? And single target? LOL. Conjuration dominates the battlefield with aoe CC effects right from the very first levels. AND ignores Spell Resistance.
Chains of Light admittedly come a spell level later but are better then Icy Prison due to no SR check.

As for Wail... end game only and be extra careful not to kill your own party? I'll pass.

I dunno though, Icy Prison gets +4 DC from Elemental Focus and Water Robes... That's significant. And it still affects targets somewhat on a successful save. And Mass Icy Prison at level 9.. GG

Wail is just for fun really

 

[Haplo]

Conjuration is old hat, Evocation for Icy Prison and Necromancy for Wail shenanigans

Icy Prison is what, spell level 5? And single target? LOL. Conjuration dominates the battlefield with aoe CC effects right from the very first levels. AND ignores Spell Resistance.
Chains of Light admittedly come a spell level later but are better then Icy Prison due to no SR check.

As for Wail... end game only and be extra careful not to kill your own party? I'll pass.

I dunno though, Icy Prison gets +4 DC from Elemental Focus and Water Robes... That's significant. And it still affects targets somewhat on a successful save. And Mass Icy Prison at level 9.. GG

Well, all Conjuration spells can get +4 DC from Rod of Power Source. Usually available much sooner then Flaming Vengeance (lower tier, I guess) and slightly bigger DC bonus.

 

[Desiderius]

In CotW you’ve really got to flank to turn on flanking so sometimes single target does the trick. There’s less competition at five than six and you get to play two more whole levels with it (Womb/Drezen), and in P:K sometimes depends on what Rod you end up with.

 

[Yosharian]

Conjuration is old hat, Evocation for Icy Prison and Necromancy for Wail shenanigans

Icy Prison is what, spell level 5? And single target? LOL. Conjuration dominates the battlefield with aoe CC effects right from the very first levels. AND ignores Spell Resistance.
Chains of Light admittedly come a spell level later but are better then Icy Prison due to no SR check.

As for Wail... end game only and be extra careful not to kill your own party? I'll pass.

I dunno though, Icy Prison gets +4 DC from Elemental Focus and Water Robes... That's significant. And it still affects targets somewhat on a successful save. And Mass Icy Prison at level 9.. GG

Well, all Conjuration spells can get +4 DC from Rod of Power Source. Usually available much sooner then Flaming Vengeance (lower tier, I guess) and slightly bigger DC bonus.

True, but Robe of Water and Elemental Focus can be gotten easily just as you obtain Icy Prison so it's an immediate and very large impact on the spell's effectiveness. It's a +6 bonus together with Spell Focus

Rod of power source is a random drop, I ended up with multiple Rod of Undeaths instead sigh

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

AT are great in KM, don't get me wrong. My favorite class in KM by far. I just think inexperienced players like Broseph will make better use of an Alchemist. While they can't delete VIPs with rays, they can attack each saving throw with and apply a devastating effect like Blindness, Nausea, and Prone. Those bombs are always at the Alchemist's highest DC, ignore magic resistance, are party friendly, high in quantity, and can be applied as needed. DPS gets respectable after a certain point too. The support spells also really help extend the adventuring day. The ability to use more armor, and martial weapons (Grenaider), they're just more newb friendly. I suggested it as an alternative more than as a recommendation.

 

[Desiderius]

I ended up with multiple Rod of Undeaths instead sigh

Been flooded with those a lot lately. Make Harrim or Jae a Necromancer and you're good.

 

[Desiderius]

Just hit level nine:

This is where InEffective does his Vivi splash to pick up a couple Sneaks. I figure why not just stay Bard and pick up seven?

 

[Mangoose]

I have a sneaking suspicion that 30 DR/- and +40 Temporary Hit Points on tap each round combined with her immunities makes Jaethal the best tank in the game. I haven't tested it yet though since I'm still in the process of finishing my Merc playthrough

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but undead HP scale with Charisma. She needs a nice hat.

Edit: Funny trick I read from CTCP's Rogue guide - 1 level of Kinetic Knight with an energy blast and now you're sneak attacking against their Touch AC (it's 0 burn with a KK)

 

[hell bovine]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Jaethal's undead advantage is too good, ironically. It's kind of immersion breaking watching enemies cast vampiric touch on her, simply because she is at the front of the party.

 

[Haplo]

I have a sneaking suspicion that 30 DR/- and +40 Temporary Hit Points on tap each round combined with her immunities makes Jaethal the best tank in the game. I haven't tested it yet though since I'm still in the process of finishing my Merc playthrough

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but undead HP scale with Charisma. She needs a nice hat.

Edit: Funny trick I read from CTCP's Rogue guide - 1 level of Kinetic Knight with an energy blast and now you're sneak attacking against their Touch AC (it's 0 burn with a KK)

Yes. Then again, if you have Shatter Defenses and they are scared, their AC is usually pretty low anyway. And with your Debilitating Strike even lower by another -8 AC. Not sure going that way (sacrificing BAB plus other ability progressions) is worth whatever the actual weapon might bring to the table (up to +5 enchantment, +2d6 elemental and so forth).

 

[Nano]

Jaethal's undead advantage is too good, ironically. It's kind of immersion breaking watching enemies cast vampiric touch on her, simply because she is at the front of the party.

Well it's not like it's obvious. At the start of the game she had to tell Linzi and Tartucio she's undead.

 

[Mangoose]

I have a sneaking suspicion that 30 DR/- and +40 Temporary Hit Points on tap each round combined with her immunities makes Jaethal the best tank in the game. I haven't tested it yet though since I'm still in the process of finishing my Merc playthrough

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but undead HP scale with Charisma. She needs a nice hat.

Edit: Funny trick I read from CTCP's Rogue guide - 1 level of Kinetic Knight with an energy blast and now you're sneak attacking against their Touch AC (it's 0 burn with a KK)

Yes. Then again, if you have Shatter Defenses and they are scared, their AC is usually pretty low anyway. And with your Debilitating Strike even lower by another -8 AC. Not sure going that way (and sacrificing BAB plus other progression) is worth whatever the actual weapon might bring to the table (up to +5 enchantment, +2d6 elemental and so forth).

Yeah haha I just thought it, well, pretty creative thinking from the guy.

That being said, one level of KK also gives you Combat Expertise (from a certain point of view), so then you can pick up Gang Up, because Gang Up doesn't use Dirty Fighting as a prerequisite. Usually people dip 3 levels of Lore Warden for that. Of course, there are advantages/disadvantages otherwise it'd replace Lore Warden in every build that uses Lore Warden for Combat Expertise.

Edit: Actually the guide is extremely in depth about the various methods of guaranteeing Sneak Attacks. I'll pull it up later. Caveat: This is min-max stuff. Though there is some insight I suppose.

 

[Mangoose]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Jaethal's undead advantage is too good, ironically. It's kind of immersion breaking watching enemies cast vampiric touch on her, simply because she is at the front of the party.

Lol actually "game-breaking" kinda rings true because you usually do not have an Undead character in a party. Also you can heal yourself by Inflicting Wounds on yourself.

But best part? During a fight, after you kill a couple, you RAISE those monsters you just killed. Hedh.

More ticks: Grab the Oracle Curses that cause bleeding. Undead don't bleed. Lol.

 

[Desiderius]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Jaethal's undead advantage is too good, ironically. It's kind of immersion breaking watching enemies cast vampiric touch on her, simply because she is at the front of the party.

It has it's downsides. Holic makes her immune to Morale effects.

 

[Sergiu64]

Edit: Funny trick I read from CTCP's Rogue guide - 1 level of Kinetic Knight with an energy blast and now you're sneak attacking against their Touch AC (it's 0 burn with a KK)

Wait... what is this? Can it be made to change all attacks to target touch AC? Seems like a very powerful ability for all melees then.

 

[Desiderius]

C'mon, man, if you're having that much trouble hitting things turn down the difficulty.

In any case think for once about what you give up as Haplo said. The benefit of Kinetic Blade is that it grows as you level Kineticist. At level one it's bad.

Jesus, people, Sneak addiction is bad.

 

[Mangoose]

Edit: Funny trick I read from CTCP's Rogue guide - 1 level of Kinetic Knight with an energy blast and now you're sneak attacking against their Touch AC (it's 0 burn with a KK)

Wait... what is this? Can it be made to change all attacks to target touch AC? Seems like a very powerful ability for all melees then.

Well then you have to face Spell Resistance. Now I'm not exactly recommending it.. I just found it funny.

 

[Mangoose]

C'mon, man, if you're having that much trouble hitting things turn down the difficulty.

In any case think for once about what you give up as Haplo said. The benefit of Kinetic Blade is that it grows as you level Kineticist. At level one it's bad.

Jesus, people, Sneak addiction is bad.

Sneak Addiction? That's kinda the whole point (if your party decides the rogue is DPS role). I mean, you're always trying to flank anyways. Flanked = Sneak attacks.

Edit: Well, I don't mean it's the only way. But it's one of the common tactics. And.. it's probably most important for a Knife Master.

It does not matter how much your WEAPON damage your weapon does. You're hitting them at +10d6 at level 20, and +10d8 if knife master. With TWF/ITWF/ATFW and Haste... Smack em like 5x times.

 

[Parabalus]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Jaethal's undead advantage is too good, ironically. It's kind of immersion breaking watching enemies cast vampiric touch on her, simply because she is at the front of the party.

You can be good and still enjoy her almost until the end.

 

[Sergiu64]

C'mon, man, if you're having that much trouble hitting things turn down the difficulty.

In any case think for once about what you give up as Haplo said. The benefit of Kinetic Blade is that it grows as you level Kineticist. At level one it's bad.

Jesus, people, Sneak addiction is bad.

I don't care about sneak attacks. I care about getting extra hits in. The trailing attacks are made with increasingly lower bonus.

 

[Xamenos]

Pretty much no mechanically advantage to being evil as well.

Jaethal's undead advantage is too good, ironically. It's kind of immersion breaking watching enemies cast vampiric touch on her, simply because she is at the front of the party.

You can be good and still enjoy her almost until the end.

And if you're a really good boy, you get her back before the end.

 

[Mangoose]

C'mon, man, if you're having that much trouble hitting things turn down the difficulty.

In any case think for once about what you give up as Haplo said. The benefit of Kinetic Blade is that it grows as you level Kineticist. At level one it's bad.

Jesus, people, Sneak addiction is bad.

I don't care about sneak attacks. I care about getting extra hits in. The trailing attacks are made with increasingly lower bonus.

That's one of the issues with 3/3.5e. TWF is not easy because it's hard to be able to Full Attack in the same round you run at an enemy. Well, that applies to iterative-based melee of all kinds. That's why all them PNPers love "Pouncing," when certain classes/archetypes have the ability to Full Attack after a charge. (Beast Totem Barbarian, Dervish Dancers various sorts, etc.)

Of course, that's why you work as a team lol

Edit: Also with Advanced Weapon Training and picking the Sacred Focus, you can dual wield from 1d6 to 2d8 damage from any weapon.. including daggers and kukris.

Though usually wouldn't want to do stuff like that because that'd (the DM would) pigeon hole you.

 

[Haplo]

C'mon, man, if you're having that much trouble hitting things turn down the difficulty.

In any case think for once about what you give up as Haplo said. The benefit of Kinetic Blade is that it grows as you level Kineticist. At level one it's bad.

Jesus, people, Sneak addiction is bad.

Sneak Addiction? That's kinda the whole point (if your party decides the rogue is DPS role). I mean, you're always trying to flank anyways. Flanked = Sneak attacks.

Edit: Well, I don't mean it's the only way. But it's one of the common tactics. And.. it's probably most important for a Knife Master.

It does not matter how much your WEAPON damage your weapon does. You're hitting them at +10d6 at level 20, and +10d8 if knife master. With TWF/ITWF/ATFW and Haste... Smack em like 5x times.

Yeah, well, if you're a Knife Master, you're nerfing your Sneak damage die by going with anything else then a knife-type weapon. So going for a KK is an even worse idea then.

 

[Mangoose]

C'mon, man, if you're having that much trouble hitting things turn down the difficulty.

In any case think for once about what you give up as Haplo said. The benefit of Kinetic Blade is that it grows as you level Kineticist. At level one it's bad.

Jesus, people, Sneak addiction is bad.

Sneak Addiction? That's kinda the whole point (if your party decides the rogue is DPS role). I mean, you're always trying to flank anyways. Flanked = Sneak attacks.

Edit: Well, I don't mean it's the only way. But it's one of the common tactics. And.. it's probably most important for a Knife Master.

It does not matter how much your WEAPON damage your weapon does. You're hitting them at +10d6 at level 20, and +10d8 if knife master. With TWF/ITWF/ATFW and Haste... Smack em like 5x times.

Yeah, well, if you're a Knife Master, you're nerfing your Sneak damage die by going with anything else then a knife-type weapon. So going for a KK is an even worse idea then.

Well. Yeah. I should make the warning: I honestly just find it hilarious but don't do it... Unless you're dipping for Combat Expertise and/or Heavy Armor. I wonder if it's more efficient than those 3 levels of Lore Warden tho.

 

[Mangoose]

I see someone hasn't read the link I posted a while back (I'm not the one coming up with these ideas. Credit goes to everybody else):

https://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-comprehensive-pathfinder-guides.html