Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Better AB, better caster level and extra attacks are tempting
That's the thing innit. Do you want to use weapons? Then choose the medium BAB class that buffs itself with magic. Either Magus or Eldritch Scondrel, whichever style you prefer. The long lasting nature of (extended) buff spells means you don't need that many spell slots. Not to mention items. Do you want to be a caster that also sneak attacks with rays? Then be AT.

AT can also be caster that sneaks with weapons. But you've got to pick what you want to be doing in the fights that matter most, and if that's casting you take feats and levels to cast better while if that's attacking your do the opposite. You can build a non-spontaneous caster that fights reasonably well most of the time with your knives then unleashes the big spells on the hardest fights in which case you don't need the extra casts from Sorc.
By non spontaneous caster do you mean Eldritch Scoundrel/Arcane trickster? That's an option I've considered but haven't discussed here or tested (I've done ranged versions of it as a mercenary and it seems fine). I am very tempted by the scoundrel trickster. I'll whip up a 10th level one and see what it gets.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,845
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Better AB, better caster level and extra attacks are tempting
That's the thing innit. Do you want to use weapons? Then choose the medium BAB class that buffs itself with magic. Either Magus or Eldritch Scondrel, whichever style you prefer. The long lasting nature of (extended) buff spells means you don't need that many spell slots. Not to mention items. Do you want to be a caster that also sneak attacks with rays? Then be AT.

AT can also be caster that sneaks with weapons. But you've got to pick what you want to be doing in the fights that matter most, and if that's casting you take feats and levels to cast better while if that's attacking your do the opposite. You can build a non-spontaneous caster that fights reasonably well most of the time with your knives then unleashes the big spells on the hardest fights in which case you don't need the extra casts from Sorc.
By non spontaneous caster do you mean Eldritch Scoundrel/Arcane trickster? That's an option I've considered but haven't discussed here or tested (I've done ranged versions of it as a mercenary and it seems fine). I am very tempted by the scoundrel trickster. I'll whip up a 10th level one and see what it gets.

No. Straight ES is far better than ES/AT. Prestige classes and slow spell progression don't mix. I mean Wizard principally. I did something like that on Octavia. Once Surprise Spells kicks in you have enough casts to just spam spells all day but into the midgame you use weapons most of the time then cast when your spells are most needed.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Better AB, better caster level and extra attacks are tempting
That's the thing innit. Do you want to use weapons? Then choose the medium BAB class that buffs itself with magic. Either Magus or Eldritch Scondrel, whichever style you prefer. The long lasting nature of (extended) buff spells means you don't need that many spell slots. Not to mention items. Do you want to be a caster that also sneak attacks with rays? Then be AT.

AT can also be caster that sneaks with weapons. But you've got to pick what you want to be doing in the fights that matter most, and if that's casting you take feats and levels to cast better while if that's attacking your do the opposite. You can build a non-spontaneous caster that fights reasonably well most of the time with your knives then unleashes the big spells on the hardest fights in which case you don't need the extra casts from Sorc.
By non spontaneous caster do you mean Eldritch Scoundrel/Arcane trickster? That's an option I've considered but haven't discussed here or tested (I've done ranged versions of it as a mercenary and it seems fine). I am very tempted by the scoundrel trickster. I'll whip up a 10th level one and see what it gets.
He means just be a Wizard. Being two levels behind on spell progress just sucks. You don't need an extra Scorching Ray when you could have had another whole level of spells to cast. And if you really feel otherwise you can just bite the bullet and be a Thassilonian Evoker. Spontaneously choosing what spells to cast and when is nice and all, but it's a crutch that keeps you from memorizing spells judiciously and using your potions/scrolls/wands. Plus, being an Intelligence based caster means you can make good use of your skill set.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
He thinks his build is min-maxed

:deathclaw:


Dude I've looked at your build plans and I can see you are very knowledgeable about the game. You're exactly the kind of person whose constructive criticism I'm soliciting by posting in this thread. Seeing as you don't seem to do constructive criticism I'm trying to figure out why I shouldn't just ignore you.

How would you build a dex fighting caster then? Put up a better build. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to figure one out seeing as mine is so bad.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,845
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
He thinks his build is min-maxed

:deathclaw:

Many such cases. People must really like 3.5 to keep playing it their whole lives.

The build is fine it's just going in too many directions to be maxxed at anything, and not in a flexible way either more in an overstretched way. I started out at the Kotex trying to convince them how great my R4/W6/AT10 build was on Octavia and it was fine but as I found after getting one of the best players on Steam to test it I'd have been better off focusing on the casting instead of blowing four levels on Rogue. I did convince him of the utility using weapons on regular fights instead of cantrips but you can still do that almost as well on R1/W9/AT10 whereas your casting is way better.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
If I take knife master 1 will sneak stab give me D8 sneak attack dice for my sneak attack ranks gained through arcane trickster? Or just the first rank I get at level 1? And what about trapfinding with normal rogue? The description says adds half my level on perception checks, not rogue level. Is this accurate or does it mean rogue level? I'm trying out a wizard based build. I avoid them because picking opposition schools was more than I really wanted to deal with but I figure I should at least roll one up and see how it compares to what I have.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,845
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Trapfinding is Rogue levels. So ES 20 gets +10 Perception which is pretty sweet and with your Sneaks from Vitals ends up with more Sneak Dice than Vivi. Pretty sure AT Sneaks would be d8 if you start with KM. Straight KM scaling AC bonus vs light weapons does come up.

There are classes in PF that already do what you’re trying to accomplish without having to pull your hair out with finding the perfect blend of multi-classes. ES is my favorite but of course you’ve also got Vivi and Sword Saint.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Trapfinding is Rogue levels. So ES 20 gets +10 Perception which is pretty sweet and with your Sneaks from Vitals ends up with more Sneak Dice than Vivi. Pretty sure AT Sneaks would be d8 if you start with KM. Straight KM scaling AC bonus vs light weapons does come up.

There are classes in PF that already do what you’re trying to accomplish without having to pull your hair out with finding the perfect blend of multi-classes. ES is my favorite but of course you’ve also got Vivi and Sword Saint.
I guess. A premade class would probably do a better job than I can. I'd get so much more satisfaction making something of my own that equals a premade class than just playing the premade though, if I can achieve it.

So far I have amazing breakthroughs only to discover one detail I missed that fucks everything up. Like the Sylvan Sorc's Leopard not levelling when you go arcane trickster. That build was amazing to level 10, a dream come true that should just be a class Owlcat if you're reading this! You put a bardbarian in Wrath for god's sake. If I can't make it work I'll just give up and play ES. So far I'm seeing this build doesn't add DEX to damage until level 7. That's not too long to wait, but the prologue would be hell unless I find an agile Kukri. It's also stuck with 12 con and no toughness until level 9

If I do give up and use a stock class I'll call him anything other than Lematte. This character, as much as I love him, has only ever been a huge disappointment. He's like a good for nothing son to me.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,438
Location
Grand Chien
Dude I've looked at your build plans and I can see you are very knowledgeable about the game. You're exactly the kind of person whose constructive criticism I'm soliciting by posting in this thread. Seeing as you don't seem to do constructive criticism I'm trying to figure out why I shouldn't just ignore you.

How would you build a dex fighting caster then? Put up a better build. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to figure one out seeing as mine is so bad.
Alright. The first thing you have to do is decide what your build DOES.

You just can't be a good offensive caster and also be extremely effective at melee combat. You can be so-so at one of them and good at the other.

You have to choose. Pathfinder is a game of specialization ultimately

Another thing would be whether you are totally attached to being Chaotic, and a follower of Calistria. That is of course your choice but being Lawful, and thus having access to Monk dips, possibly a Paladin dip, is very strong in this game. So it's a tradeoff.

You set the non-negotiables and the negotiables for the build, I can help you come up with some ideas. Otherwise I'm just fumbling around in the dark trying to second-guess what you would go for and what you wouldn't go for.
 
Last edited:

Stoned Ape

Savant
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
885
Location
The belly of the whale
So far I have amazing breakthroughs only to discover one detail I missed that fucks everything up. Like the Sylvan Sorc's Leopard not levelling when you go arcane trickster.

You could just download the 'Call of the Wild' mod and pick up Skill Focus Nature, Animal Ally and Boon Companion to get an animal companion that scales with character level regardless of class.
 

Arthandas

Prophet
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,551
I'm doing a no mercenaries, no companion respec, single classes only unfair run.
Any tips on party composition and who should I roll as MC?
I'm thinking of aasimar full tank paladin with Amiri (offtank/dps), Harrim (healing/buffs), Kalikke (waifu), Octavia and that nigger with a gun bow.
Does this seem viable?
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Dude I've looked at your build plans and I can see you are very knowledgeable about the game. You're exactly the kind of person whose constructive criticism I'm soliciting by posting in this thread. Seeing as you don't seem to do constructive criticism I'm trying to figure out why I shouldn't just ignore you.

How would you build a dex fighting caster then? Put up a better build. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to figure one out seeing as mine is so bad.
Alright. The first thing you have to do is decide what your build DOES.

You just can't be a good offensive caster and also be extremely effective at melee combat. You can be so-so at one of them and good at the other.

You have to choose. Pathfinder is a game of specialization ultimately

Another thing would be whether you are totally attached to being Chaotic, and a follower of Calistria. That is of course your choice but being Lawful, and thus having access to Monk dips, possibly a Paladin dip, is very strong in this game. So it's a tradeoff.

You set the non-negotiables and the negotiables for the build, I can help you come up with some ideas. Otherwise I'm just fumbling around in the dark trying to second-guess what you would go for and what you wouldn't go for.
Light and fast is non negotiable. I love movement speed so much as a mainly turn-based player. Has magic (however little), does big damage in melee, chaotic neutral or chaotic good are non negotiable for this build for roleplaying reasons. I just have more fun playing chaotic. Gear dependence isn't desirable but some can be tolerated (+4 belts and hats are easy to find early on). I'd prefer to have a character that works without a belt and gets better with one on, than one whose power attack goes away when he takes it off (I don't know or want to know what gear I'll find in the late game so if there are only 2 good drops of a weapon type I won't use it unless they are unmissable).

I just wanna be a dude who zips and teleports around killing or disabling something every turn, and can cast debuffs with a reasonable chance of success on things that you would actually need to cast them on. Don't need a million spells. Don't actually care about damage spells. I want access to shield, expeditious retreat, haste, true strike, mirror image and sense vitals as well as a couple strong mind effecting spells to disable enemies or make them vulnerable to attack. So a few basic buffs that every arcane caster gets, some debuffs and big weapon damage. A pet leopard would be awesome but isn't essential, especially if it means doing less damage personally.

Also, builds that suck until level 17 are out. If I'm not functioning (dealing big damage) by level 8 or 9 then I think the build is bad. I don't mind early game grind. If a build sucks until level 8 I'm fine with that, if the payoff feels worth it.
 
Last edited:

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,438
Location
Grand Chien
Dude I've looked at your build plans and I can see you are very knowledgeable about the game. You're exactly the kind of person whose constructive criticism I'm soliciting by posting in this thread. Seeing as you don't seem to do constructive criticism I'm trying to figure out why I shouldn't just ignore you.

How would you build a dex fighting caster then? Put up a better build. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to figure one out seeing as mine is so bad.
Alright. The first thing you have to do is decide what your build DOES.

You just can't be a good offensive caster and also be extremely effective at melee combat. You can be so-so at one of them and good at the other.

You have to choose. Pathfinder is a game of specialization ultimately

Another thing would be whether you are totally attached to being Chaotic, and a follower of Calistria. That is of course your choice but being Lawful, and thus having access to Monk dips, possibly a Paladin dip, is very strong in this game. So it's a tradeoff.

You set the non-negotiables and the negotiables for the build, I can help you come up with some ideas. Otherwise I'm just fumbling around in the dark trying to second-guess what you would go for and what you wouldn't go for.
Light and fast is non negotiable. I love movement speed so much as a mainly turn-based player. Has magic (however little), does big damage in melee, chaotic neutral or chaotic good are non negotiable for this build for roleplaying reasons. I just have more fun playing chaotic. Gear dependence isn't desirable but some can be tolerated (+4 belts and hats are easy to find early on). I'd prefer to have a character that works without a belt and gets better with one on, than one whose power attack goes away when he takes it off (I don't know or want to know what gear I'll find in the late game so if there are only 2 good drops of a weapon type I won't use it unless they are unmissable).

I just wanna be a dude who zips and teleports around killing or disabling something every turn, and can cast debuffs with a reasonable chance of success on things that you would actually need to cast them on. Don't need a million spells. Don't actually care about damage spells. I want access to shield, expeditious retreat, haste, true strike, mirror image and sense vitals as well as a couple strong mind effecting spells to disable enemies or make them vulnerable to attack. So a few basic buffs that every arcane caster gets, some debuffs and big weapon damage. A pet leopard would be awesome but isn't essential, especially if it means doing less damage personally.
So the first thing that you're going to have to deal with is that you're never going to have enchantment spells that have a good chance of success against tough enemies (i.e. the ones you want to cast those spells on) while also being a heavy hitter in melee.

However there are some spells that debuff your opponents without a save, so we can look at some of those.

You're going to have to ditch the pet because there aren't any classes that have what you're looking for that also have an animal companion. Your only option there is to install COTW as Stoned Ape mentions.

Classes that have what you're looking for are Eldritch Scoundrel, Magus (or its archetypes), Eldritch Knight, maybe some others.

I'll have a think about it and post here when I've come up with an idea.
 

Polanski

Scholar
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
142
Dude I've looked at your build plans and I can see you are very knowledgeable about the game. You're exactly the kind of person whose constructive criticism I'm soliciting by posting in this thread. Seeing as you don't seem to do constructive criticism I'm trying to figure out why I shouldn't just ignore you.

How would you build a dex fighting caster then? Put up a better build. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to figure one out seeing as mine is so bad.
Alright. The first thing you have to do is decide what your build DOES.

You just can't be a good offensive caster and also be extremely effective at melee combat. You can be so-so at one of them and good at the other.

You have to choose. Pathfinder is a game of specialization ultimately

Another thing would be whether you are totally attached to being Chaotic, and a follower of Calistria. That is of course your choice but being Lawful, and thus having access to Monk dips, possibly a Paladin dip, is very strong in this game. So it's a tradeoff.

You set the non-negotiables and the negotiables for the build, I can help you come up with some ideas. Otherwise I'm just fumbling around in the dark trying to second-guess what you would go for and what you wouldn't go for.
Light and fast is non negotiable. I love movement speed so much as a mainly turn-based player. Has magic (however little), does big damage in melee, chaotic neutral or chaotic good are non negotiable for this build for roleplaying reasons. I just have more fun playing chaotic. Gear dependence isn't desirable but some can be tolerated (+4 belts and hats are easy to find early on). I'd prefer to have a character that works without a belt and gets better with one on, than one whose power attack goes away when he takes it off (I don't know or want to know what gear I'll find in the late game so if there are only 2 good drops of a weapon type I won't use it unless they are unmissable).

I just wanna be a dude who zips and teleports around killing or disabling something every turn, and can cast debuffs with a reasonable chance of success on things that you would actually need to cast them on. Don't need a million spells. Don't actually care about damage spells. I want access to shield, expeditious retreat, haste, true strike, mirror image and sense vitals as well as a couple strong mind effecting spells to disable enemies or make them vulnerable to attack. So a few basic buffs that every arcane caster gets, some debuffs and big weapon damage. A pet leopard would be awesome but isn't essential, especially if it means doing less damage personally.
A dex based magus sounds like something for you. If you wanted a str based you could go primalist, with arcane bloodline to auto cast the buffs, fast, destructive and some spellslinging.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,438
Location
Grand Chien
Have you thought about Elven Curve Blade because you want to be DEX it seems yet you want Power Attack which is not a feat DEX users typically take. ECB is a two-handed finessable weapon so it's rather unique in how it works (receives bonus damage from Power Attack)
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Dude I've looked at your build plans and I can see you are very knowledgeable about the game. You're exactly the kind of person whose constructive criticism I'm soliciting by posting in this thread. Seeing as you don't seem to do constructive criticism I'm trying to figure out why I shouldn't just ignore you.

How would you build a dex fighting caster then? Put up a better build. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to figure one out seeing as mine is so bad.
Alright. The first thing you have to do is decide what your build DOES.

You just can't be a good offensive caster and also be extremely effective at melee combat. You can be so-so at one of them and good at the other.

You have to choose. Pathfinder is a game of specialization ultimately

Another thing would be whether you are totally attached to being Chaotic, and a follower of Calistria. That is of course your choice but being Lawful, and thus having access to Monk dips, possibly a Paladin dip, is very strong in this game. So it's a tradeoff.

You set the non-negotiables and the negotiables for the build, I can help you come up with some ideas. Otherwise I'm just fumbling around in the dark trying to second-guess what you would go for and what you wouldn't go for.
Light and fast is non negotiable. I love movement speed so much as a mainly turn-based player. Has magic (however little), does big damage in melee, chaotic neutral or chaotic good are non negotiable for this build for roleplaying reasons. I just have more fun playing chaotic. Gear dependence isn't desirable but some can be tolerated (+4 belts and hats are easy to find early on). I'd prefer to have a character that works without a belt and gets better with one on, than one whose power attack goes away when he takes it off (I don't know or want to know what gear I'll find in the late game so if there are only 2 good drops of a weapon type I won't use it unless they are unmissable).

I just wanna be a dude who zips and teleports around killing or disabling something every turn, and can cast debuffs with a reasonable chance of success on things that you would actually need to cast them on. Don't need a million spells. Don't actually care about damage spells. I want access to shield, expeditious retreat, haste, true strike, mirror image and sense vitals as well as a couple strong mind effecting spells to disable enemies or make them vulnerable to attack. So a few basic buffs that every arcane caster gets, some debuffs and big weapon damage. A pet leopard would be awesome but isn't essential, especially if it means doing less damage personally.
A dex based magus sounds like something for you. If you wanted a str based you could go primalist, with arcane bloodline to auto cast the buffs, fast, destructive and some spellslinging.
That definitely sounds like something to try in Wrath.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Have you thought about Elven Curve Blade because you want to be DEX it seems yet you want Power Attack which is not a feat DEX users typically take. ECB is a two-handed finessable weapon so it's rather unique in how it works (receives bonus damage from Power Attack)
I have thought of it and made it work with a rogue. Power attack works with estoc + fencing grace too. Even though it's a one handed weapon you get the full bonus if you don't use a shield. I've thought about making a magus like that actually. I just mentioned power attack as an example of a gear dependent feat. It's more damage than piranha strike even with dex, that's why I sometimes take it with 11 STR and a +2 belt of physical perfection on DEX builds. I'm not totally attached to having it, it's just one way of getting damage.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,438
Location
Grand Chien
I see. Ok well I have a concept in mind that I think you might like, just having breakfast right now I'll post it in a bit.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
885
Location
The belly of the whale
Light and fast is non negotiable. I love movement speed so much as a mainly turn-based player. Has magic (however little), does big damage in melee, chaotic neutral or chaotic good are non negotiable for this build for roleplaying reasons. I just have more fun playing chaotic. Gear dependence isn't desirable but some can be tolerated (+4 belts and hats are easy to find early on). I'd prefer to have a character that works without a belt and gets better with one on, than one whose power attack goes away when he takes it off (I don't know or want to know what gear I'll find in the late game so if there are only 2 good drops of a weapon type I won't use it unless they are unmissable).

I just wanna be a dude who zips and teleports around killing or disabling something every turn, and can cast debuffs with a reasonable chance of success on things that you would actually need to cast them on. Don't need a million spells. Don't actually care about damage spells. I want access to shield, expeditious retreat, haste, true strike, mirror image and sense vitals as well as a couple strong mind effecting spells to disable enemies or make them vulnerable to attack. So a few basic buffs that every arcane caster gets, some debuffs and big weapon damage. A pet leopard would be awesome but isn't essential, especially if it means doing less damage personally.

Magus

How about a Rakshasa spawn Tiefling/ serpentine bloodline Eldritch Scion?

Str: 13
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 16

Start with Weapon Finesse, pick up exotic weapon prof: curveblade at 3, then work on the Shatter Defences feat line and grab weapon specialization, improved crit, etc. along the way. You'll have plenty of feats left over to grab a skill focus persuasion if you want to buff your intimidate checks.

With serpentine bloodline you get hold monster as a bonus spell, and when you hit high levels you can grab another bunch of disabling spells from your expanded spell access.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,498
Have you thought about Elven Curve Blade because you want to be DEX it seems yet you want Power Attack which is not a feat DEX users typically take. ECB is a two-handed finessable weapon so it's rather unique in how it works (receives bonus damage from Power Attack)
I have thought of it and made it work with a rogue. Power attack works with estoc + fencing grace too. Even though it's a one handed weapon you get the full bonus if you don't use a shield. I've thought about making a magus like that actually. I just mentioned power attack as an example of a gear dependent feat. It's more damage than piranha strike even with dex, that's why I sometimes take it with 11 STR and a +2 belt of physical perfection on DEX builds. I'm not totally attached to having it, it's just one way of getting damage.

For magus estoc works, but i think elven curved blade wont sadly as its 2H so no spellstrike unless i am wrong, game not being 100% faithfull to the rules.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Light and fast is non negotiable. I love movement speed so much as a mainly turn-based player. Has magic (however little), does big damage in melee, chaotic neutral or chaotic good are non negotiable for this build for roleplaying reasons. I just have more fun playing chaotic. Gear dependence isn't desirable but some can be tolerated (+4 belts and hats are easy to find early on). I'd prefer to have a character that works without a belt and gets better with one on, than one whose power attack goes away when he takes it off (I don't know or want to know what gear I'll find in the late game so if there are only 2 good drops of a weapon type I won't use it unless they are unmissable).

I just wanna be a dude who zips and teleports around killing or disabling something every turn, and can cast debuffs with a reasonable chance of success on things that you would actually need to cast them on. Don't need a million spells. Don't actually care about damage spells. I want access to shield, expeditious retreat, haste, true strike, mirror image and sense vitals as well as a couple strong mind effecting spells to disable enemies or make them vulnerable to attack. So a few basic buffs that every arcane caster gets, some debuffs and big weapon damage. A pet leopard would be awesome but isn't essential, especially if it means doing less damage personally.

Magus

How about a Rakshasa spawn Tiefling/ serpentine bloodline Eldritch Scion?

Str: 13
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 16

Start with Weapon Finesse, pick up exotic weapon prof: curveblade at 3, then work on the Shatter Defences feat line and grab weapon specialization, improved crit, etc. along the way. You'll have plenty of feats left over to grab a skill focus persuasion if you want to buff your intimidate checks.

With serpentine bloodline you get hold monster as a bonus spell, and when you hit high levels you can grab another bunch of disabling spells from your expanded spell access.
That sounds pretty badass. Shatter defenses would be amazing with this archetype. Why tiefling and not muzetouched though? I'm not averse to a tielfling. I have a portrait that I grabbed off someone's Pinterest and changed the eye color in MS paint. His name is Theodore. Never ended up playing him. Is DR/2 piercing worth the loss of 2 WIS though?
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Have you thought about Elven Curve Blade because you want to be DEX it seems yet you want Power Attack which is not a feat DEX users typically take. ECB is a two-handed finessable weapon so it's rather unique in how it works (receives bonus damage from Power Attack)
I have thought of it and made it work with a rogue. Power attack works with estoc + fencing grace too. Even though it's a one handed weapon you get the full bonus if you don't use a shield. I've thought about making a magus like that actually. I just mentioned power attack as an example of a gear dependent feat. It's more damage than piranha strike even with dex, that's why I sometimes take it with 11 STR and a +2 belt of physical perfection on DEX builds. I'm not totally attached to having it, it's just one way of getting damage.

For magus estoc works, but i think elven curved blade wont sadly as its 2H so no spellstrike unless i am wrong, game not being 100% faithfull to the rules.

No spellstrike doesn't work with 2H. That would be too awesome to allow. Edit: I got half done making an estoc wielding power attacking magus then I remembered spellstrike counts as two handing a weapon. Still, shatter defenses is probably worth power attack on a build with sneak attacks like say an estoc or rapier wielding Eldritch Scoundrel. I'm gonna try making that instead. I've yet to make a dex magus I've loved. The class works so well with STR.

Edit: I confused the ES with the ES.
 
Last edited:

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,438
Location
Grand Chien
Ok so here's the trick, I think Eldritch Scion is a good fit for what you're trying to do, it's martial-focused but with some spellcasting, the CHA-based spellcasting fits your character since you want to be a dandy that fucks anything that moves.

This is your base spell list:

Level 0: Acid Splash, Daze, Light, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue, Disrupt Undead, Flare
Level 1: Burning Hands, Color Spray, Corrosive Touch, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Flare Burst, Grease, Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement, Reduce Person, Shield, Shocking Grasp, Snowball, Stone Fist, True Strike, Vanish
Level 2: Acid Arrow, Bear’s Endurance, Blur, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Effortless Armor, Frigid Touch, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Molten Orb, Scorching Ray, Stone Call, Web
Level 3: Beast Shape I, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Fireball, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Slow, Stinking Cloud, Vampiric Touch
Level 4: Beast Shape II, Controlled Fireball, Dimension Door, Dragon’s Breath, Elemental Body I, Enlarge Person (Mass), Greater Invisibility, Ice Storm, Phantasmal Killer, Reduce person (Mass), Shield of Dawn, Shout, Stoneskin
Level 5: Acidic Spray, Baleful Polymorph, Beast Shape III, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Elemental Body II, Fire Snake, Vampiric Shadow Shield
Level 6: Acidic Fog, Bear’s Endurance (Mass), Beast Shape IV, Bull’s Strength (Mass), Cat’s Grace (Mass), Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Dispel Magic (Greater), Dragonkind I, Elemental Body III, Hellfire Ray, Sirocco, Transformation, True Seeing, Umbral Strike

I propose the Arcane bloodline for a couple of reasons, first of all you get to have a familiar and I figured it's as close to having a pet that you're gonna get. You can choose from many kinds for example a pet snake or whatever. The hare is the most meta pick because of its initiative bonus, but you can choose whatever you want.

Secondly this bloodline gives you access to a couple of spells that could be interesting, through the New Arcana ability. This allows you to pick from spells that you wouldn't normally get access to, from the Wizard list. You mentioned Sense Vitals already so that would probably be your first pick. Your other picks depend on what you want to go for, you could go for Icy Prison, wear the Water Robes, take Evocation spell focus, Elemental Focus Cold, School Power Evocation, use the Rod of Flaming Vengeance, and end up with a pretty potent DC, not earth-shattering, but it will be decent. Or you could get Enervation, ranged touch attack, no-save level drain, since you're DEX you should be able to hit those.

Bestow Curse is another option for that second New Arcana pick, melee touch attack, usable with Spellstrike (I think?), but it has a Will save attached to it and you'll find it hard to make that effective against hard targets I think. Plus also with Magus builds I tend to toss out Spellstrike anyway as it isn't as good as either using TWF or just 2handing.

Echolocation is also a really nice pick, though more of a defensive one obviously.

You get Dimension Door as a bonus spell which isn't hugely important but it is nice since it gives you that movement ability you said you wanted.

You need at least 15 levels of Scion to get School Power, so you could take Scion 15 and then complement it with whatever else you want. Aldori Defender 1 to get a bonus feat and free Dueling Sword proficiency (wield Bloodhound + Allslayer maybe?). Rogue 1 to get free Weapon Finesse. Rogue 3 to get DEX-to-damage on your off-hand weapon. Rogue 4 to get Uncanny Dodge. Aldori Defender 2 to get the extra feat. Whatever.

If you don't care about School Power, for example you went with Enervation which has no save, you could get 13 levels of Scion instead, and then that gives you greater multiclassing freedom.

There are a bunch of ways you could build this character but overall I think it fits your character's modus operandi.
 
Last edited:

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,438
Location
Grand Chien
Your potential DC on Icy Prison:
  • +10 Base
  • +9 28 Charisma (16 base, +8 Enhancement, +2 Bokken's Elixir, +2 Ring of Circumstances)
  • +1 Ring of Circumstances
  • +2 Robe of Water (Cold)
  • +2 Elemental Focus (Cold)
  • +2 Spell Focus feats (Evocation)
  • +3 Rod of Flaming Vengeance (Evocation)
  • +2 School Power (Evocation)
  • +5 Spell level (Icy Prison)
DC 36

You can even stack Rods of Flaming Vengeance if you managed to get more than one.

Of course this is really something your dedicated caster should be doing but since you mentioned being interested in having a disable spell... *shrug*

If you really wanted to make this your go-to strategy against hard targets, you'd probably omit TWF since that way you can use Spell Combat to cast this spell then make a full-round attack with your main hand. And more levels of Scion would be useful since you get more casts per day. Maybe Rog 1/Aldori Defender 1/Scion 18. But you could just go straight Scion, those dips are only for proficiencies & bonus feats.

You could use Heighten to put Icy Prison in your level 6 slots too.

Bloodhound already has Agile, and Keen, so you wouldn't need Rogue 3, and you wouldn't need Improved Critical. And this is a weapon you pretty much can't miss if you're doing all the game's content. Also there are lots of good Dueling Swords throughout the game.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom