Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.

I have improved critical in my build at level 13. Until then I plan to use my magus ability with enduring blade to keep my dueling sword keen. I'm hesitant to post said build here because I've gotten to a point where I'm actually playing the game and don't want to fall back into the vicious cycle of endless respecs. It seems fine.

Nothing too imaginative just lots of sword damage + hit chance and pretty good AC. Some casting. I can't get icy prison from the look of it it's not on the magus spell list on the wiki so it's probably not something I can learn. Oh well. Dubuffs aren't make or break for Lematte now that he's a sword saint. He starts with 19 base dex and increases to 24. He starts with 18 int which doesn't increase. Not bothering with spells with saves. Buffs and touch spells. Metamagic empower + maximize. That kind of thing. Big dueling sword damage and personal buffs are the focus. I like this class a lot. Getting INT bonus to AC (capped at level) is like having a lesser version of a monk dip. I think it's a good option for a chaotic neutral guy like him. Between that, his dex and personal buffs he should be a fine front liner. Plus he functions from level 1 which is a joy compared to other dex builds I've done.

Oh and he adds he ends up doing extra attacks of opportunity equal to his int bonus and the description says it stacks with combat reflexes. That sounds hilariously good so he's getting outflank and combat reflexes. Wanted to give him greater trip as well but it's four feats to do that as a dex guy so i decided just to focus on sword damage stuff instead. The casting kind of blows on this subclass but it gets some amazing things to compensate for that. I love it.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I was thinking about trying out a Sword Saint wand wielder Trickster in WotR. I think it should be quite a fun character to play, would probably pick up the level 2 UMD, perception, athletics, and knowledge world tricks and choose the level 3s for mobility and knowledge nature (maybe swap over UMD and knowledge nature when I find out what the level 3 trick is for UMD).

Would probably aim for the vital strike line along with the improved improved improved critical stuff from trickster and the crit multiplier for lvl 20 SS. I think stacking AOOs from sword saint and combat reflexes for lots of moving around while getting free counter attacks, or trying out loads of spellstrikes with juiced up wands would be pretty entertaining.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I was thinking about trying out a Sword Saint wand wielder Trickster in WotR. I think it should be quite a fun character to play, would probably pick up the level 2 UMD, perception, athletics, and knowledge world tricks and choose the level 3s for mobility and knowledge nature (maybe swap over UMD and knowledge nature when I find out what the level 3 trick is for UMD).

Would probably aim for the vital strike line along with the improved improved improved critical stuff from trickster and the crit multiplier for lvl 20 SS. I think stacking AOOs from sword saint and combat reflexes for lots of moving around while getting free counter attacks, or trying out loads of spellstrikes with juiced up wands would be pretty entertaining.

That sounds awesome. I've been planning to go trickster as well. Every youtuber I see is going lich but trickster is way more me. I'm gonna be a halfling. I've heard wrath is more serious in tone than Kingmaker. I'll fix that.

 

[Yosharian]

Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.

I have improved critical in my build at level 13. Until then I plan to use my magus ability with enduring blade to keep my dueling sword keen. I'm hesitant to post said build here because I've gotten to a point where I'm actually playing the game and don't want to fall back into the vicious cycle of endless respecs. It seems fine.

Nothing too imaginative just lots of sword damage + hit chance and pretty good AC. Some casting. I can't get icy prison from the look of it it's not on the magus spell list on the wiki so it's probably not something I can learn. Oh well. Dubuffs aren't make or break for Lematte now that he's a sword saint. He starts with 19 base dex and increases to 24. He starts with 18 int which doesn't increase. Not bothering with spells with saves. Buffs and touch spells. Metamagic empower + maximize. That kind of thing. Big dueling sword damage and personal buffs are the focus. I like this class a lot. Getting INT bonus to AC (capped at level) is like having a lesser version of a monk dip. I think it's a good option for a chaotic neutral guy like him. Between that, his dex and personal buffs he should be a fine front liner. Plus he functions from level 1 which is a joy compared to other dex builds I've done.

Oh and he adds he ends up doing extra attacks of opportunity equal to his int bonus and the description says it stacks with combat reflexes. That sounds hilariously good so he's getting outflank and combat reflexes. Wanted to give him greater trip as well but it's four feats to do that as a dex guy so i decided just to focus on sword damage stuff instead. The casting kind of blows on this subclass but it gets some amazing things to compensate for that. I love it.

Ahh yes I forgot you can add Keen using Arcane Pool.

 

[Desiderius]

Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.

I have improved critical in my build at level 13. Until then I plan to use my magus ability with enduring blade to keep my dueling sword keen. I'm hesitant to post said build here because I've gotten to a point where I'm actually playing the game and don't want to fall back into the vicious cycle of endless respecs. It seems fine.

Nothing too imaginative just lots of sword damage + hit chance and pretty good AC. Some casting. I can't get icy prison from the look of it it's not on the magus spell list on the wiki so it's probably not something I can learn. Oh well. Dubuffs aren't make or break for Lematte now that he's a sword saint. He starts with 19 base dex and increases to 24. He starts with 18 int which doesn't increase. Not bothering with spells with saves. Buffs and touch spells. Metamagic empower + maximize. That kind of thing. Big dueling sword damage and personal buffs are the focus. I like this class a lot. Getting INT bonus to AC (capped at level) is like having a lesser version of a monk dip. I think it's a good option for a chaotic neutral guy like him. Between that, his dex and personal buffs he should be a fine front liner. Plus he functions from level 1 which is a joy compared to other dex builds I've done.

Oh and he adds he ends up doing extra attacks of opportunity equal to his int bonus and the description says it stacks with combat reflexes. That sounds hilariously good so he's getting outflank and combat reflexes. Wanted to give him greater trip as well but it's four feats to do that as a dex guy so i decided just to focus on sword damage stuff instead. The casting kind of blows on this subclass but it gets some amazing things to compensate for that. I love it.

Ahh yes I forgot you can add Keen using Arcane Pool.

Same thing with Pal Divine Weapon Bond

 

[Haplo]

Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.

 

[Yosharian]

Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.

Bro I'm level 7 right now and I'm already clearing out the barrow ready to abuse the shit out of Dimension Door and Invisibility, please

 

[Haplo]

A basic question. I did google this first. Do I need combat casting on my sword saint? I've never bothered with this before because I always just take a 5 foot step then cast. There are a lot of things I could pack in this build and I'm not sure I have room for it. Some threads I've seen say you eventually start passing concentration automatically, some say you need the feat for a melee caster. I don't want to really. There's a few different things I could take - metamagic empower, metamagic maximize, spell focus, elemental focus. Shit even getting greater weapon focus would add damage to my blade. Combat casting won't so unless I'll be eating shit every time I try to use spell combat I'd like to leave it out.

Yes, I'm a sword saint now. Yes I know it's not the strongest class in the game. I love it though.

You don't need Combat Casting because:
1. A Sword Saint should not get hit. I mean its skillset sets it up to be the best tank in the game.
2. Your odds of passing Concentration checks generally increase with levels. Even moreso that you don't get access to highest level spells/get new spell levels slower then a pure caster.

Also, "not the strongest"?
I mean, there are many strong classes in Pathfinder. Kinda a nice balance in unbalance feel to it. And especially pure casters do some things better. Kineticists get some outright broken abilities eventually.
Still, I'd be hard pressed to find a class that is clearly superior to a Sword Saint...

 

[Haplo]

Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.

Bro I'm level 7 right now and I'm already clearing out the barrow ready to abuse the shit out of Dimension Door and Invisibility, please

Man up and beat Farnirras fair and square

 

[Yosharian]

Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.

Bro I'm level 7 right now and I'm already clearing out the barrow ready to abuse the shit out of Dimension Door and Invisibility, please

Man up and beat Farnirras fair and square

Oh he's going to get beat like Jay Z in an elevator, but I need Icy Prison for that

In the meantime, he doesn't need that chest of valuable magical items, I'll have those

 

[Haplo]

Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.

Bro I'm level 7 right now and I'm already clearing out the barrow ready to abuse the shit out of Dimension Door and Invisibility, please

Man up and beat Farnirras fair and square

Oh he's going to get beat like Jay Z in an elevator, but I need Icy Prison for that

In the meantime, he doesn't need that chest of valuable magical items, I'll have those

Vinetrap is also nice (and Divine, so can spam that CC).
Not to mention Chains of Light.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah, it's much easier to boost the DC on Icy Prison though, and I'm playing with Insane monster stats so his Reflex save probably won't low enough for Vinetrap/CoL to work, we'll see

 

[Bloodeyes]

You don't need Combat Casting because:
1. A Sword Saint should not get hit. I mean its skillset sets it up to be the best tank in the game.

Monk or monk dip is better because it's not capped by class level. Still it's pretty goddamn good and if someone really loved AC they could monk dip it too. I don't see why it wouldn't stack. I'm not going to but a person could do that if what they wanted to do was tank. Monk dipped, dex based ecclesithiurge probably beats this for AC but this definitely beats the cleric on hitting back.

2. Your odds of passing Concentration checks generally increase with levels. Even moreso that you don't get access to highest level spells/get new spell levels slower then a pure caster.

Yeah I'm not taking it. The in game description of what concentration checks do doesn't match the implemented gameplay mechanics. I've read up on them on the Owlcat forums now and looked at them in game and I get how it works. It's an ok early game feat that becomes irrelevant later, especially to me who will mainly use my spellstrike with level 1 and 2 spells until quite late when I have the spell slots and feats to use metamagic empower + maximize.

Also, "not the strongest"?
I mean, there are many strong classes in Pathfinder. Kinda a nice balance in unbalance feel to it. And especially pure casters do some things better. Kineticists get some outright broken abilities eventually.
Still, I'd be hard pressed to find a class that is clearly superior to a Sword Saint...

Yeah that was a moronic statement on my part and I'm embarrassed to have said it. I was lead to believe this class is not highly regarded by a video some Russian guy made on the magus where he said disparaging things about it (I forget which Russian RPG youtuber it was, I watch a few). I need to learn to not listen to opinions on this game, only information. Discourse around pathfinder Kingmaker is highly opinionated and rife with polemic. In other words opinions are like assholes: everyone has 'em and they all stink.

I should just test shit for myself before judging it really. Sword Saint is fucking amazing. It's like this class was hand crafted for me to play Lematte in, before I even thought of him. It's destiny. Well it would be if the saint got a pet leopard but you can't have it all.

 

[Haplo]

Yep, a level 1 Traditional Monk dip is a very good investment...

 

[Yosharian]

Scaled Fist master race reporting in

 

[Bloodeyes]

Here's a support character I'm going to make as a mercenary, mocked up as a level 10 main character respec. Probably loads of mistakes in this build, I made it very quickly. I'll look over it more carefully before I make him for real. No dip for this guy, just a bow and a place on the back line casting debuffs. Screenshot has him with rapid shot and clustered shots. The real build probably won't take that. The bow is just so he has something to do when enemies are too weak to deserve his spells.

1. Necromancy focus + Martial weapons proficiency

3. Greater necromancy focus

5. Point blank shot + (Crusader bonus) Weapon focus ray

7. Precise shot

9. Metamagic - reach spell

10. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray focus

11. Metamagic - empower spell

13. Improved critical ray

15. Spell penetration + (Crusader bonus) Ray specialization

17. Metamagic heighten spell

19. Greater spell penetration

20. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray specialization

I had the idea today when a Russian youtuber (not the same one I think) said you can crit with enervation. That's just... beautiful.

 

[razvedchiki]

i wanna respec octavia to a scroll savant, should i keep her rogue lvl?

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

i wanna respec octavia to a scroll savant, should i keep her rogue lvl?

Swap it for a vivisectionist level or go all in scroll savant.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's a support character I'm going to make as a mercenary, mocked up as a level 10 main character respec. Probably loads of mistakes in this build, I made it very quickly. I'll look over it more carefully before I make him for real. No dip for this guy, just a bow and a place on the back line casting debuffs. Screenshot has him with rapid shot and clustered shots. The real build probably won't take that. The bow is just so he has something to do when enemies are too weak to deserve his spells.

1. Necromancy focus + Martial weapons proficiency

3. Greater necromancy focus

5. Point blank shot + (Crusader bonus) Weapon focus ray

7. Precise shot

9. Metamagic - reach spell

10. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray focus

11. Metamagic - empower spell

13. Improved critical ray

15. Spell penetration + (Crusader bonus) Ray specialization

17. Metamagic heighten spell

19. Greater spell penetration

20. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray specialization

I had the idea today when a Russian youtuber (not the same one I think) said you can crit with enervation. That's just... beautiful.

The important thing is Empowering/Maximizing it but yeah there’s no save.

 

[_V_]

5) I know it has been asked before, but I don't remember the answer: Is there any alternative to Fencing Grace that could be used with kamas, estoc or elven curved blade? At the moment I don't see a path towards using dex or int (or wis) as damage modifiers without having to switch to single style rapier and/or sacrificing attacks. Duelist looks meh...IMHO

Agile weapons. So I could check the list of weapons in WotR and meta around that.
Slashing Grace and Dervish Dance. Same limitations as Fencing Grace.
Aldori Swordlord uses dex as dmg for duelling swords. (But the class doesn't speak to me.)
3 dips into rogue for Finesse Training.
Mythic Weapon Finesse. (WotR)
Amulet of Agile Fists (I wish more games took some hints from DDO and gave "enchanted handwraps" for the weapon slot.)

So there are options. But a combination of reach+finessable(+agile) seems unlikely. Unless WotR introduces spiked chains.
I've been fooling around with a solo Pummeling Monk lvl 20 in the endless dungeon and that's really fun.

So I've been reading up a little on WotR and if I eschew a mythic path I can advance to lvl 40 in normal classes (if the game actually provides sufficient xp). That means Vivi 16 + Trad Monk 20 + XX 4 is a possiblity

 

[Bloodeyes]

So is combat reflexes a useless feat? I've been putting it in all my melee builds and I noticed today after more than 1000 hours in the game that it isn't actually functioning like I thought it did. So I reread the description "You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed." "May." Mother fuckers. I swear these rules were written by Jew lawyers. So you don't actually get extra attacks of opportunity. It just lets if do that if, theoretically 5 guys ran past you or you tripped and feared someone at the same time and they got up and ran away. As in shit that basically never happens so it's the single worst feat in the game. Right?

 

[Yosharian]

So is combat reflexes a useless feat? I've been putting it in all my melee builds and I noticed today after more than 1000 hours in the game that it isn't actually functioning like I thought it did. So I reread the description "You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed." "May." Mother fuckers. I swear these rules were written by Jew lawyers. So you don't actually get extra attacks of opportunity. It just lets if do that if, theoretically 5 guys ran past you or you tripped and feared someone at the same time and they got up and ran away. As in shit that basically never happens so it's the single worst feat in the game. Right?

Do you understand what the feat 'outflank' does?

 

[Bloodeyes]

So is combat reflexes a useless feat? I've been putting it in all my melee builds and I noticed today after more than 1000 hours in the game that it isn't actually functioning like I thought it did. So I reread the description "You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed." "May." Mother fuckers. I swear these rules were written by Jew lawyers. So you don't actually get extra attacks of opportunity. It just lets if do that if, theoretically 5 guys ran past you or you tripped and feared someone at the same time and they got up and ran away. As in shit that basically never happens so it's the single worst feat in the game. Right?

Do you understand what the feat 'outflank' does?

I think so. I don't want to claim I understand anything anymore. But I believe it triggers an attack of opportunity from adjacent characters who also have the feat, when you crit. It's one I take on every front liner when I main an inquisitor. I like it. One thing I don't understand about outflank is why one time, when I was fighting the Scythe tree, Lematte critted with his rapier and the 10 or so summoned skeletons all did attacks of opportunity. They don't have the feat. Or is it because Harrim did? That made me question my understanding of outflank and wonder how I could replicate that. I wish I had taken a screenshot.

 

[Desiderius]

You probably Tripped the Tree. Or they got the AoOs from the Inquisitor's Solo Tactics. I think Outflank gives them out and Seize gives them to you? Advanced Rogue Talent Oppostunist triggers on damage not just crit.

As for Combat Reflexes they're good on Divine Guardian obviously but also yeah there are ways (see: Thug) to make shit run around and if you're Enlarged with Reach you can smack them all. This is why Lann in Wrath (who starts with Reflexes) is so good with Greater Snap Shot. It's like permanent Overwatch.

Bottom Line: your general sense is correct, Reflexes is not as high of a priority as most people make it. Ever Ready in Wrath gievs atk/damage bonuses on AoOs so largely obsoletes it.