Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[vazha]

Just found a very useful dip for BAM (or for any class that relies on fighting unarmored for that matter)

Spoiler

Somewhere in midgame you'll find an excellent robe (+5 DODGE (!) AC) that only lawful good monks can wear. Dip a Sensei for BAM, get a wisdom item +1 Wisdom increase on lvl up (+6 circlet is the obvious choice), bam-bam, suddenly you have +5 dodge AC, +5 Bracers AC, +5 wis to ac bonus from monk and unlimited dex bonus from being an archer. Gets you like 40-42 AC in no time unbuffed). Now imagine what would that robe do for a Sword Saint, who would also get a minimum of +3 Int Ac increase from the circlet.

 

[Jarpie]

What's BAM?

 

[vazha]

What's BAM?

Black Archer Man, also known as the Hero of Wakanda, the black overlord, and Ekun for his friends. Owlcat's answer to Marvel's black Heimdall.

 

[panda]

#1 mistake is using piranha strike. What kind of moron would rather get +8 to damage than a 20% more chance to do 9d8...
piranha strike is for duelists and dex melee fighters.

They are seriously discussing lvl20 char
This is #1 bullshit detector regarding people suggesting builds.
If you see someone actively suggesting others lvl20 character build for non solo playthrough, you'd better just close browser tab and not waste your time. Because it is obvious that such "theorycrafter" has near zero knowledge about the actual game.

E.g. i've seen shitload of crane wing monk suggestions for kensai while in reality ^^ robe and stat boosters helm/belt will give more than enough AC just for monk level alone.
Meaning 60 AC from just stats/items. And 62, maybe 64 is highest you'll ever need i think.
But congratulations if you listend to guru, who made suggestions without finishing game at least once, and wasted 3 feats for nothing on a feat starved character.

 

[vazha]

#1 mistake is using piranha strike. What kind of moron would rather get +8 to damage than a 20% more chance to do 9d8...
piranha strike is for duelists and dex melee fighters.

They are seriously discussing lvl20 char

Not lvl 20, but a Jack of All trades build could go all the way up to 17-18 perhaps. One guy who'd be in charge of persuasion, trickery, all the two of the more profitable knowledge/lores (1st arcana and then either world or religion) + moblity. A dex based sword saint would be an obvious choice for it.

 

[Serus]

rangers always suck ass. Fighter-types always end up being better at ranged combat than the ranger-type, and the ranger-types other abilities, whatever they may be (usually spells or an animal companion) end up being completely useless by mid-game. The class itself just doens't translate well to the combat-heavy nature of a computer RPG.

Fake news in this case. They are solid in P:K. Pets are good, some even say a bit too good. And the favoured enemy should work relatively well in this campaign. They have a few spells as well. So overall, if you count the damage output of the pet a ranger should out-damage a ranged fighter while providing more utility and a body for the frontline at the same time.

 

[panda]

Not lvl 20, but a Jack of All trades build could go all the way up to 17-18 perhaps. One guy who'd be in charge of persuasion, trickery, all the two of the more profitable knowledge/lores (1st arcana and then either world or religion) + moblity. A dex based sword saint would be an obvious choice for it.

No offense, but do you even read?

Could someone explain to me what we get with like 4KM/16viv vs pure KM ? do we get more dmg or what?

 

[vazha]

I do read. I even do selective reading. You might have noticed I quoted only a part of your post.

 

[Shadenuat]

This is #1 bullshit detector regarding people suggesting builds

PK release persuaded me more than ever that metagame and what people believe meta is or "good" is nothing but superstition created by years of their flawed experiences on what "works". Talking to some people about what is good to play feels like arguing with medieval peasant on what is a good sacrifice to Old Gods.

And I Was DM For 20 Years are worse than casuals in that sense, because casuals at least eventually have to face them being bad at game and adapt. Although some of them do fall into "if you play with story companions, you must be playing on Storymode" category. For these character building is a crutch for their poor party/strategic play, and "all story companions are bad" yet another way of saying that "I am too bad to play without using cheat engine to turn everyone into 30 point buy vivisectionists".

But at least casuals who whine are closer to finishing the game than others.

It reminds me somewhat of what PopeAmole pointed out - everyone knows everything, and is stuck in their ways. Instead of embracing game as a whole and having all the Fun, people only look at the game and its mechanics from a single, one, narrow perspective that suits their position of being correct and right.

 

[aweigh]

Hey, is there any overpowered cheesiness to be found with Inquisitors and their ability to receive Teamwork Feat benefits without having to have the ally also buy them?

Seems like something one could cheese with if combined with Manuever bullshit or sneak attack bullshit, I dunno.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Nah, any teamwork feat that is good for one member is going to also be good for at least one more. Maybe that one that gives a bonus to saves, if it's basically adding a party member for free?

Honestly I just turned the difficulty back down to normal and filled my party with leopards. They're murdering everything. Considering my bajillion sources of healing I could stand to do this another notch up but I can't be bothered to spend the extra time resting.

On paper I thought the animal mob would be a decent meatshield for some ranged damage, but in reality they gain a shitton of free feats and stats out of nowhere so they're honestly better fighters than the companions themselves would be. Like I'm 95% sure a level 4 druid with 3 in every stat would win vs any of the stock companions at level 4. And even if you're trying to minimax them the leopard is probably still going to kick their gimped asses. Also, this made it easy enough that I gave everyone the necessary levels in barbarian/travel domain so the lowest speed in the party is now 40. Feels good. Makes me tempted to try something like a solo druid run and just be a frigging cheetah all day. Also, having 5 extra party members rolling perception checks makes it pretty easy to find frigging everything.

 

[vazha]

Honestly I just turned the difficulty back down to normal .

why would you do that? From lvl 8-9 on the game becomes trivially easy even unfair. I just upped my unfair difficulty manually (much tougher enemies, 3 times damage to the party).

 

[Haplo]

Hey, is there any overpowered cheesiness to be found with Inquisitors and their ability to receive Teamwork Feat benefits without having to have the ally also buy them?

Seems like something one could cheese with if combined with Manuever bullshit or sneak attack bullshit, I dunno.

Would not say overpowered. Although I guess there is some interesting potential with Monster Tactician subclass, which shares the feats with his summons - and animal companion with the Animal domain.
Share stuff like Seize the Moment and have a high crit threat range for free attacks for your horde whenever you (or they) score a crit. Or Tandem Trip to significantly raise the chance for automatic bite trips for your animal companion with trip (leopard, wolf, dog). Maybe even spec for trip yourself.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Because the game isn't balanced the way something like KotC was. Enemies spawn surrounding you or even right in the middle of your party from triggers. Shit that is waaay too fucking strong (and offers no real reward) shows up at complete random. And the effect of the difficulty slider is insane- +4 to hit, AC and damage from a single tier. Le fuck? That turns a goblin into something more akin to an ogre. Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit. The combat isn't interesting anyways. I'm not playing this so I can micromanage an encounter with skeletons or bugs and then spend 5 minutes of real time to heal up after gaining 200 xp because something rolled a 20 or a 1.

 

[Elex]

Because the game isn't balanced the way something like KotC was. Enemies spawn surrounding you or even right in the middle of your party from triggers. Shit that is waaay too fucking strong (and offers no real reward) shows up at complete random. And the effect of the difficulty slider is insane- +4 to hit, AC and damage from a single tier. Le fuck? That turns a goblin into something more akin to an ogre. Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit. The combat isn't interesting anyways. I'm not playing this so I can micromanage an encounter with skeletons or bugs and then spend 5 minutes of real time to heal up after gaining 200 xp because something rolled a 20 or a 1.

and still you can murder that overpower monsters by prebuff select all and click on the enemy, with story companion, levelled up on their main classes.

no secret cheesy tactic, no strange mix maxing, just stuff like "octavia with invisilbility", jubilost auotcasting bombs, enlarged ekun with sense vitals.

 

[rashiakas]

Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit.

Thats how the rules work. If you dont suprise your oponents (which you can if you start attacking witout being noticed) you are flatfooted till your initiative comes up. Nothing retarded here.

 

[aweigh]

from reddit:

So, if you look at your attack bonuses, you can see that the game actually implements things like Crane Style as a bonus to hit. Fighting Defensively normally gives you a -4, and Crane Style is supposed to reduce that by 2. The game will break it down as: -4 Fighting Defensively, +2 Crane Style.

If you continue down that line to get Crane Riposte, you reduce the penalty by an additional 1. And if you were to level as an Aldori Defender to pick up Steel Net, it reduces it by an additional 2. You _should_ just have no penalty for fighting defensively, right? Wrong!

I did some testing with this last night, and the net result is: -4 Fighting Defensively, +2 Crane Style, +1 Crane Riposte, +2 Steel Net = +1. Assuming you pick up those feats and abilities, your to-hit goes _up_ when fighting defensively.

;tldr - Crane Style chain + Aldori Defender Steel Net = net bonus to hit when fighting defensively

 

[axedice]

I'm planning to go the evil route for my first game with full companions but I've gone rusty with D&D shenanigans and looking for some advice. Ideal party for me seems to be


- Valerie as maintank against regular mobs. I've read some praise for her no-nonsense approach, possibly worth keeping in the party. What is the most turtlest spec for her?

- Jaethal for being a waifu and immunities. I'm thinking of making her offtank/dps against regular mobs (two-handed) and maintank against level drain/mind control type mobs since they won't be packing as hard a punch. Best build seems to be Maddog since pets are OP, probably with a dip in two-weapon fighter. But how about ditching Valerie completely and speccing Jaethal as the only tank? Or how about leaving her as inq for the spells and judgements? Base Inquisitor seems like a weak class since it's not specialized for anything so I'm not so sure if it can be salvaged with feats only.

- Noknok because Avellone. Besides everyone says knife fighter is stronk. Probably best to dip in some Vivi for mutagen bonuses

- Jubilost since he fits with the party concept and alchemists are also stronk. I assume its best to go pure here just like spellcasters.

- Dwarf Cleric or the Gay Cleric for last spot. I've heard gayling is the better one but uncle doom probably fits with evil playthrough better.


As for the PC, I'm thinking about picking a summoner with CC spells so best bet is wizard or Sorc.

- Abyssal bloodline sorc's summons are pretty OP since they have 5/good DR midgame. Sylvan sorcerer comes with animal companion so that's op too. I haven't considered the dragons since forms come way too late.

- Thassalonian wizards have even more spells than sorcs. Evocation is blocked thats ok but Illusion is also blocked and that could suck.

- Another option is to ditch valerie, turn Jaethal to Maintank and become a Monster Tactician with animal domain, the pet class incarnate. Octavia will then fill the role of CC along with her deadly sneak attacks.


Last option seems very attractive actually, but I'm not sure about Octavia fitting with my evil setup.

 

[Haplo]

Given the feat and level investment, I'm okay with that. A bigger problem is that Crane Style doesn't currently require a free hand (as per the rules).

 

[Damned Registrations]

Because the game isn't balanced the way something like KotC was. Enemies spawn surrounding you or even right in the middle of your party from triggers. Shit that is waaay too fucking strong (and offers no real reward) shows up at complete random. And the effect of the difficulty slider is insane- +4 to hit, AC and damage from a single tier. Le fuck? That turns a goblin into something more akin to an ogre. Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit. The combat isn't interesting anyways. I'm not playing this so I can micromanage an encounter with skeletons or bugs and then spend 5 minutes of real time to heal up after gaining 200 xp because something rolled a 20 or a 1.

and still you can murder that overpower monsters by prebuff select all and click on the enemy, with story companion, levelled up on their main classes.

no secret cheesy tactic, no strange mix maxing, just stuff like "octavia with invisilbility", jubilost auotcasting bombs, enlarged ekun with sense vitals.

I just ran into a pair of mature athachs on the road. I'm level 4. Explain to me how I beat these without cheesy tactics on normal, much less after giving them 8 more AC and to hit.

Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit.

Thats how the rules work. If you dont suprise your oponents (which you can if you start attacking witout being noticed) you are flatfooted till your initiative comes up. Nothing retarded here.

I'm not getting surprise rounds when attacking first. Which is also making charge totally worthless, since the party will stand there waiting for their initiative instead of closing to melee range.

Besides which, if I'm flatfooted, I shouldn't be able to move.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Because the game isn't balanced the way something like KotC was. Enemies spawn surrounding you or even right in the middle of your party from triggers. Shit that is waaay too fucking strong (and offers no real reward) shows up at complete random. And the effect of the difficulty slider is insane- +4 to hit, AC and damage from a single tier. Le fuck? That turns a goblin into something more akin to an ogre. Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit. The combat isn't interesting anyways. I'm not playing this so I can micromanage an encounter with skeletons or bugs and then spend 5 minutes of real time to heal up after gaining 200 xp because something rolled a 20 or a 1.

and still you can murder that overpower monsters by prebuff select all and click on the enemy, with story companion, levelled up on their main classes.

no secret cheesy tactic, no strange mix maxing, just stuff like "octavia with invisilbility", jubilost auotcasting bombs, enlarged ekun with sense vitals.

I just ran into a pair of mature athachs on the road. I'm level 4. Explain to me how I beat these without cheesy tactics on normal, much less after giving them 8 more AC and to hit.

Did I mention how retarded it is that my own party can get caught flatfooted when we're the ones starting combat? Fuck allll that shit.

Thats how the rules work. If you dont suprise your oponents (which you can if you start attacking witout being noticed) you are flatfooted till your initiative comes up. Nothing retarded here.

I'm not getting surprise rounds when attacking first. Which is also making charge totally worthless, since the party will stand there waiting for their initiative instead of closing to melee range.

Besides which, if I'm flatfooted, I shouldn't be able to move.

Dude, just turn down the difficulty.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I did, it's on normal. But those things are insane. And they were ambushing me so I couldn't even buff before the fight. I managed to kill one a few times by focusing on it and it gave out 2000xp. They have like 16ft reach or some shit, I thought they had a vomit attack but they were biting. There's really no reason for those things to be on the encounter table at that stage of the game. You could probably kill them with certain kinds of parties, like using a monster tactician to spam summons while some wizards rained touch attacks on them.

Anyways, took out the stag lord. Didn't get to try sneaking in because I rolled a 2 on an athletics check I didn't even think was us trying to get in. Still a massacre, I think he managed to down a single leopard and forced my leader to heal himself. Utterly insane amount of loot afterwards made me feel like everything I did up to this point was an utter waste of time. I don't get why he was a total bitch compared to all the sidequests and random encounters. I didn't even bother to buff aside from bless + bardsong.

 

[ArchAngel]

from reddit:

So, if you look at your attack bonuses, you can see that the game actually implements things like Crane Style as a bonus to hit. Fighting Defensively normally gives you a -4, and Crane Style is supposed to reduce that by 2. The game will break it down as: -4 Fighting Defensively, +2 Crane Style.

If you continue down that line to get Crane Riposte, you reduce the penalty by an additional 1. And if you were to level as an Aldori Defender to pick up Steel Net, it reduces it by an additional 2. You _should_ just have no penalty for fighting defensively, right? Wrong!

I did some testing with this last night, and the net result is: -4 Fighting Defensively, +2 Crane Style, +1 Crane Riposte, +2 Steel Net = +1. Assuming you pick up those feats and abilities, your to-hit goes _up_ when fighting defensively.

;tldr - Crane Style chain + Aldori Defender Steel Net = net bonus to hit when fighting defensively

Also Halfling has I think a feat that gives +2 AC when fighting defensively :D

 

[aweigh]

Yeah, and you can upgrade it further by picking its upgrade Cautious Fighter.

BTW, who again on the Codex was this guy?


I think it was PopeAmoleII? Well, I can't understand a fucking word he's saying. I hope his speaking here is an "act" for YouTube, because RIP IRL speaking.

 

[Shadenuat]

I am sure your voice is lovely. Record "Japanese blobbers are better than Elex" and we shall judge you fairly.