Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Lawntoilet]

Looks pretty
+16 seems like you probably don't want Power Attack on all the time, so as long as you know when to toggle it off that's OK. Your AC is a little low, but with Mirror Image and Shield Wall that's OK too.
No subclass on the Rogue? Because you have good Cha and good Str, Intimidating Presence, and took Rogue levels anyway, it would likely be better as a Thug. Then you could take Cornball Smash to get frighten AoOs (which are much more manageable on one enemy at a time than the Fear AoE from a Thug with Dreadful Carnage meme, which in my experience just sends mobs running away until they aggro the whole map, and drags the fight out). Shatter Defenses would be good too in that case to get attacks vs flat-footed, pretty much always.
You do have Sense Vitals, right?

Thanks for the response! I don't have Sense Vitals, no. I guess I can pick it up next level. I was going to take Cornugon Smash but it seemed like weird micromanaging, I have to wait until I land a hit and then Demoralize, right? I will consider it for level 15, if it's not too late to be useful then. Intimidating Prowess also works on Intimidate checks in dialogue, which helps here and there, and I should use Demoralize in general more since I could probably demoralize most characters I fight now with these stats.

I also have Linzi I believe with Displacement, so she can cast it on me. I can Heroism or have Jaethal cast Greater Heroism, and toggle my Luck skill so my +16 is actually +18 (I use Arch's Luck a lot when a fight looks like it will be tougher). The AC is low but in my playthrough it's actually 2nd highest on the team, which is weird, maybe I'm not equipping my guys properly (Valerie, my Stalwart Defender has a 40 AC. And actually Nok-Nok with the Bracers of Armor +5 has 33, so mine is 3rd highest). That is why I got Mirror Image though.

Thanks again for looking it over. Weird I didn't subclass on the Rogue, not sure my motives at the time but maybe I didn't like any of the subclasses then. I guess I didn't want to be a Thug and more of a nice guy killer.

No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said )

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said )

Ah, man. Wish I would have brought this up earlier! I would have taken Cornugon Smash for sure if I knew it auto-activated. It seemed like the Magus stuff which required micromanagement. Ah well. Level 15 I'll probably grab that, and Sense Vitals when I can (is that available for Bards?) And while I'm asking, how does the Magus class work? Do you have to make an attack and then select a spell to cast?

 

[Steezus]

Hey guys, I'm probably going to play the campaign on and off during work downtime, which means that I don't really want to invest much time in coming up with a build myself. I think I want to play a human Knife Master, but I can't find a decent guide on it on the internet. What is the stat distribution I should aim for, besides maxing out dexterity? I usually like to play face characters, but I'm not sure how viable it is to invest in charisma and/or persuasion in this game. What are the must have feats?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Efe]

normally whenever you cast a spell, you try to hit a touch attack with that spell.
magus using spellstrike casts the spell then makes an attack with weapon. with spell combat he makes full attack. you only click on spell. rest is automatic (both abilities are toggles like power attack)
you don't have to micromanage your magus more than your rogue. you can just pop an enduring flaming/frost/shock blade (all of them together if you want) and keep doing auto attacks.
paladins and inquisitors get very little uses of similar abilities and magus can just clear whole maps while keeping them active. spell casts are for dealing that extra damage on bosses/big guys or when you want to tank with your magus and need to buff up.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can I get some honest feedback on this build I made so far? Level 13 so still have a ways to go, but I call it the Dragon Archaeologist.

5 Archaeologist / 4 Rogue / 4 Dragon Disciple

Melee build with some supplemental casting (Heroism, Good Hope, Mirror Image). Attack currently with Power Attack enabled is +16 for 17-24 damage, 18-20(x2) critical with a Dueling Sword Proficiency. Some key feats are Outflank, Shield Wall, Improved Initiative, Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Power Attack, Intimidating Prowess. Stats with gear equipped are:

STR 24
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 22
WIS 16
CHA 22

AC 30
Fortitude Save 8
Reflex Save 13
Will Save 10

Skills:
Stealth 30
Perception 30
Magic Device 20
Persuasion 30
Arcana 25

Gets a Bite attack per round (wearing Amulet of Fists +2 to get a +2 roll bonus on natural attacks). Also can use Archaeologist's Luck for a +2 to attack and damage rolls, skill checks and more. Using Arrowguard buckler, no Arcane penalty since I'm in light armor. That's about it - any hope for this one? First time Pathfinder player and just was mucking around on my second run in the game to come up with this. Will probably use all following levels to continue leveling Dragon Disciple. Also have Breath Weapon.

What you got here loses 4 BAB. You better get 4 attack bonus back from other abilities of these classes if you want this character to hit stuff in melee...

 

[Lawntoilet]

No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said )

Ah, man. Wish I would have brought this up earlier! I would have taken Cornugon Smash for sure if I knew it auto-activated. It seemed like the Magus stuff which required micromanagement. Ah well. Level 15 I'll probably grab that, and Sense Vitals when I can (is that available for Bards?) And while I'm asking, how does the Magus class work? Do you have to make an attack and then select a spell to cast?

Unless there's some weird Archaeologist thing, you should have access to Sense Vitals.

Spoiler

Linzi does did

Magus is backwards actually, as long as you have a free hand and Spellstrike/Spell Combat active. It goes:
Cast Spell > Full Attack at -2AB
or
Cast Touch Spell ("charges" your weapon) > Free attack to deliver touch spell at -2AB> Full attack (which can also deliver touch spell if your free attack missed) at -2AB.
It is still quite micro-heavy but not as much as a lot of people seem to imply and they are pretty versatile, too.

Hey guys, I'm probably going to play the campaign on and off during work downtime, which means that I don't really want to invest much time in coming up with a build myself. I think I want to play a human Knife Master, but I can't find a decent guide on it on the internet. What is the stat distribution I should aim for, besides maxing out dexterity? I usually like to play face characters, but I'm not sure how viable it is to invest in charisma and/or persuasion in this game. What are the must have feats?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm not an expert on Knife Master, but:
Max Dex, yes. Probably Dex > Int > Wis > Con, to get lots of skills and keep your Will/Fort saves looking OK. If you only want a couple of skills though, you can dump Int.
Investing in Charisma isn't necessary to be good at Persuasion, you can leave it at 8 as long as you max Persuasion skill every level. Persuasion is definitely worth it, the game has shared skill checks most of the time but the most important solo checks are usually Persuasion.
Take Daggers and Kukris as your free Rogue Finesse weapons obviously. Daggers first, since you'll find magic daggers before magic kukris (although there are both in Chapter 1).
Obviously you want TWF feats. Everyone in your party who is in melee half the time or more should have Outflank. It's very good, and to capitalize on it, you should get Combat Reflexes too IMO, and probably Seize the Moment eventually.
Crippling Strike and Opportunist are good Advanced Talents.
You'll also want Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Skill Focus (Persuasion) if you really want to be a good face. You will likely want Blind Fight for the late game but it's not necessary early on at all.
1 level of Vivisectionist is good too for the extra Sneak Attack and buffs from Mutagen and spells.

 

[Steezus]

Sweet, thanks.

One question though. I know that the game uses charisma as a modifier for persuasion checks, but are there any pure charisma checks at all? Or is the stat more or less just the intelligence equivalent for paladins and bards and kinda useless for everybody else?

 

[Haplo]

No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said )

Ah, man. Wish I would have brought this up earlier! I would have taken Cornugon Smash for sure if I knew it auto-activated. It seemed like the Magus stuff which required micromanagement. Ah well. Level 15 I'll probably grab that, and Sense Vitals when I can (is that available for Bards?) And while I'm asking, how does the Magus class work? Do you have to make an attack and then select a spell to cast?

Unless there's some weird Archaeologist thing, you should have access to Sense Vitals.

Spoiler

Linzi does did

Magus is backwards actually, as long as you have a free hand and Spellstrike/Spell Combat active. It goes:
Cast Spell > Full Attack at -2AB
or
Cast Touch Spell ("charges" your weapon) > Free attack to deliver touch spell at -2AB> Full attack (which can also deliver touch spell if your free attack missed) at -2AB.
It is still quite micro-heavy but not as much as a lot of people seem to imply and they are pretty versatile, too.

Hey guys, I'm probably going to play the campaign on and off during work downtime, which means that I don't really want to invest much time in coming up with a build myself. I think I want to play a human Knife Master, but I can't find a decent guide on it on the internet. What is the stat distribution I should aim for, besides maxing out dexterity? I usually like to play face characters, but I'm not sure how viable it is to invest in charisma and/or persuasion in this game. What are the must have feats?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm not an expert on Knife Master, but:
Max Dex, yes. Probably Dex > Int > Wis > Con, to get lots of skills and keep your Will/Fort saves looking OK. If you only want a couple of skills though, you can dump Int.
Investing in Charisma isn't necessary to be good at Persuasion, you can leave it at 8 as long as you max Persuasion skill every level. Persuasion is definitely worth it, the game has shared skill checks most of the time but the most important solo checks are usually Persuasion.
Take Daggers and Kukris as your free Rogue Finesse weapons obviously. Daggers first, since you'll find magic daggers before magic kukris (although there are both in Chapter 1).
Obviously you want TWF feats. Everyone in your party who is in melee half the time or more should have Outflank. It's very good, and to capitalize on it, you should get Combat Reflexes too IMO, and probably Seize the Moment eventually.
Crippling Strike and Opportunist are good Advanced Talents.
You'll also want Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Skill Focus (Persuasion) if you really want to be a good face. You will likely want Blind Fight for the late game but it's not necessary early on at all.
1 level of Vivisectionist is good too for the extra Sneak Attack and buffs from Mutagen and spells.

Mostly good advice. But from what I've read so far about Seize the Moment, is that it overlaps with Outflank and you only get 1 AoO from a crit on flanked enemy (Seize the Moment also works for ranged, but... meh). So unless it was changed in 1.1, Seize the Moment is likely not worth it (as you have Outflank anyway already).

 

[Steezus]

Can I dump str completely? It's basically just carry weight for a Knife Master, right?


Is a stat distribution like 7 20 11 16 13 8 okay'ish?

 

[Efe]

top hat and belts help you go around it easily enough

 

[Serus]

Can I dump str completely? It's basically just carry weight for a Knife Master, right?


Is a stat distribution like 7 20 11 16 13 8 okay'ish?

Never mind, it was a brain fart.

 

[Steezus]

Can I dump str completely? It's basically just carry weight for a Knife Master, right?


Is a stat distribution like 7 20 11 16 13 8 okay'ish?

It's damage as well. Sure it's not your main source of damage but still at 7 you will get flat -2 damage to every attack. Not a huge deal but something to consider. Also why would you want frigging 16 INT on any character that doesn't use INT for cassting? For everyone else it's just 1/2 skill points which is worse than underwhelming.

I thought Knife Masters use dex as damage modifier for daggers, kukris and so on.

Those were pretty much just random numbers, but I went with 16 int according to Lawntoilet's breakdown of stat importance. I played this game for like 2 hours on release and have no other experience with Pathfinder systems. I just thought more int = more skill points = profit.

 

[Serus]

Can I dump str completely? It's basically just carry weight for a Knife Master, right?


Is a stat distribution like 7 20 11 16 13 8 okay'ish?

It's damage as well. Sure it's not your main source of damage but still at 7 you will get flat -2 damage to every attack. Not a huge deal but something to consider. Also why would you want frigging 16 INT on any character that doesn't use INT for cassting? For everyone else it's just 1/2 skill points which is worse than underwhelming.

I thought Knife Masters use dex as damage modifier for daggers, kukris and so on.

Those were pretty much just random numbers, but I went with 16 int according to Lawntoilet's breakdown of stat importance. I played this game for like 2 hours on release and have no other experience with Pathfinder systems. I just thought more int = more skill points = profit.

Sorry you're right, you're using DEX for selected weapon for both attack and damage rolls. A brain fart on my part. Still I'd say CON >>>>> INT for a frontliner.

 

[Lhynn]

If I remember correctly. Even if you get damage with dex, any damage penalty with str should still be there. So I wouldn't drop below 10. Haven't tested it in this game tho.

 

[Steezus]

You don't need all the skills. For a rogue go for Mobility, Trickery, Perception and Persuasion. Maybe arcana. The rest is gravy.

Okay, makes sense then.

What's your reasoning for putting 16 points into charisma? Does it do more than just modifying persuasion checks? Somebody else said that increasing persuasion every level up should be enough.

Oh, and Aasimar heritage is straight up +2 bonuses on two different ability scores, right?

 

[hell bovine]

Can I dump str completely? It's basically just carry weight for a Knife Master, right?


Is a stat distribution like 7 20 11 16 13 8 okay'ish?

Unless you play on hard or higher, you don't need to min-max every stat. Regarding intelligence, keep in mind skills can be further boosted by taking the relevant feats. For example, my druid has persuasive and skill focus: persuasion, both of which give a larger boost if you raise the skill past 10 points. Together with items he now has something like 30 persuasion, which is not bad for a guy with 10 base charisma. And rogues get far more feats to play with.

edit: Alternatively, if you want that high intelligence on your character, then the alchemist vivisectionist might be a better choice, because alchemists use intelligence for their spellcasting extracts, and because they can easily boost their dexterity with mutagens.

 

[Steezus]

16 Charisma + lawful good gives you access to Paladin saves with a 2 level dip and to Scaled fist Cha -> AC with a few free feats that allow you to get crane style. It is a fantastic dip and very useful to a dex based character.

Eh, I kinda wanna murder some people like that annoying halfling bard child from the intro, so I don't know about lawful good.

Can I dump str completely? It's basically just carry weight for a Knife Master, right?


Is a stat distribution like 7 20 11 16 13 8 okay'ish?

Unless you play on hard or higher, you don't need to min-max every stat. Regarding intelligence, keep in mind skills can be further boosted by taking the relevant feats. For example, my druid has persuasive and skill focus: persuasion, both of which give a larger boost if you raise the skill past 10 points. Together with items he now has something like 30 persuasion, which is not bad for a guy with 10 base charisma. And rogues get far more feats to play with.

edit: Alternatively, if you want that high intelligence on your character, then the alchemist vivisectionist might be a better choice, because alchemists use intelligence for their spellcasting extracts, and because they can easily boost their dexterity with mutagens.

Yeah, I was set on playing on hard mode.

It's not necessarily about wanting a specific stat distribution, but more about an appropriate one for the character I have in mind. Backstabbing and practical rouge type, who can talk his way in or out of certain situations.

I don't want to meta game too much, with picking up paladin and monk levels for the super min maxed elite build and all that jazz, but taking a level in vivisectionist for the buffs seems fitting.

 

[hell bovine]

I don't want to meta game too much, with picking up paladin and monk levels for the super min maxed elite build and all that jazz, but taking a level in vivisectionist for the buffs seems fitting.

It's not just the mutagen (and alchemists get an improved version of it at higher levels) that makes alchemists such good buffers, though. They get a very useful spell extract selection, combined with the various stuff from discoveries.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, arguably pick 4 levels in Knife Master (for d8 sneak damage, weapon finesse, dex to damage, Uncanny Dodge, debilitating injury) and the rest in Vivisectionist (well 1 monk, if you can be lawful). You'll have a much stronger character this way.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

What you got here loses 4 BAB. You better get 4 attack bonus back from other abilities of these classes if you want this character to hit stuff in melee...

But..but..I can Demoralize! I see what you mean. Maybe it's better if I switch off Power Attack (+18) and don't forget I use Archaeologist's Luck a lot which gives me +2 to attack rolls, damage rolls and more (+20). So that kind of makes up for the difference, maybe?

Edit - And Jaethal has Greater Heroism (+4 to attack rolls I believe) which stacks with my Luck bonus from Arch's Luck. So I should be alright. What do you think?

 

[Lawntoilet]

Mostly good advice. But from what I've read so far about Seize the Moment, is that it overlaps with Outflank and you only get 1 AoO from a crit on flanked enemy (Seize the Moment also works for ranged, but... meh). So unless it was changed in 1.1, Seize the Moment is likely not worth it (as you have Outflank anyway already).

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads up.

What you got here loses 4 BAB. You better get 4 attack bonus back from other abilities of these classes if you want this character to hit stuff in melee...

But..but..I can Demoralize! I see what you mean. Maybe it's better if I switch off Power Attack (+18) and don't forget I use Archaeologist's Luck a lot which gives me +2 to attack rolls, damage rolls and more (+20). So that kind of makes up for the difference, maybe?

Edit - And Jaethal has Greater Heroism (+4 to attack rolls I believe) which stacks with my Luck bonus from Arch's Luck. So I should be alright. What do you think?

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah I was pretty disappointed about that as well.

 

[Lhynn]

Reason i like magus so much is that with by making every attack a touch attack you basically cannot miss. Meaning you can stack a lot of penalty to attack and still land them.

 

[pm_675]

So I want to play a Druid. Any ideas? Preferably something not melee since I tend to play melee guys generally.

Thanks

 

[hell bovine]

So I want to play a Druid. Any ideas? Preferably something not melee since I tend to play melee guys generally.

Thanks

Well, now that apparently slings have been added for sale at Oleg's, playing a ranged druid should be easy. Later on you will want to switch to bows, but you don't need a feat for this, because bracers of archery (which you get at the end of chapter one) allow any character to use bows. Buy a sling once at Oleg's, that's it.

Choose a race with bonus to wisdom (or charisma if going for a feyspeaker) and a druid class that gets an animal companion (so basically any but the blight druid), max your casting stat and dexterity, and you're set. Druids get a ranged buff as a level one spell (aspect of the falcon) and a very good tank in the form of the animal companion.

That said, I find the low level offensive druid spells not so good, so until mid levels my druid was basically a buff bot with ranged support. On the plus side, buffing is very useful in this game and a buffed animal companion is a very good tank, so it has been smooth sailing (playing on challenging) so far.