Yosharian
Arcane
Yeah that one artisan is the only source I know of for good Sai.
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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread
- Thread starter Ruchy
- Start date
Deleted Member 16721
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Can I get some honest feedback on this build I made so far? Level 13 so still have a ways to go, but I call it the Dragon Archaeologist.
5 Archaeologist / 4 Rogue / 4 Dragon Disciple
Melee build with some supplemental casting (Heroism, Good Hope, Mirror Image). Attack currently with Power Attack enabled is +16 for 17-24 damage, 18-20(x2) critical with a Dueling Sword Proficiency. Some key feats are Outflank, Shield Wall, Improved Initiative, Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Power Attack, Intimidating Prowess. Stats with gear equipped are:
STR 24
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 22
WIS 16
CHA 22
AC 30
Fortitude Save 8
Reflex Save 13
Will Save 10
Skills:
Stealth 30
Perception 30
Magic Device 20
Persuasion 30
Arcana 25
Gets a Bite attack per round (wearing Amulet of Fists +2 to get a +2 roll bonus on natural attacks). Also can use Archaeologist's Luck for a +2 to attack and damage rolls, skill checks and more. Using Arrowguard buckler, no Arcane penalty since I'm in light armor. That's about it - any hope for this one? First time Pathfinder player and just was mucking around on my second run in the game to come up with this. Will probably use all following levels to continue leveling Dragon Disciple. Also have Breath Weapon.
5 Archaeologist / 4 Rogue / 4 Dragon Disciple
Melee build with some supplemental casting (Heroism, Good Hope, Mirror Image). Attack currently with Power Attack enabled is +16 for 17-24 damage, 18-20(x2) critical with a Dueling Sword Proficiency. Some key feats are Outflank, Shield Wall, Improved Initiative, Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Power Attack, Intimidating Prowess. Stats with gear equipped are:
STR 24
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 22
WIS 16
CHA 22
AC 30
Fortitude Save 8
Reflex Save 13
Will Save 10
Skills:
Stealth 30
Perception 30
Magic Device 20
Persuasion 30
Arcana 25
Gets a Bite attack per round (wearing Amulet of Fists +2 to get a +2 roll bonus on natural attacks). Also can use Archaeologist's Luck for a +2 to attack and damage rolls, skill checks and more. Using Arrowguard buckler, no Arcane penalty since I'm in light armor. That's about it - any hope for this one? First time Pathfinder player and just was mucking around on my second run in the game to come up with this. Will probably use all following levels to continue leveling Dragon Disciple. Also have Breath Weapon.
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Looks pretty 
+16 seems like you probably don't want Power Attack on all the time, so as long as you know when to toggle it off that's OK. Your AC is a little low, but with Mirror Image and Shield Wall that's OK too.
No subclass on the Rogue? Because you have good Cha and good Str, Intimidating Presence, and took Rogue levels anyway, it would likely be better as a Thug. Then you could take Cornball Smash to get frighten AoOs (which are much more manageable on one enemy at a time than the Fear AoE from a Thug with Dreadful Carnage meme, which in my experience just sends mobs running away until they aggro the whole map, and drags the fight out). Shatter Defenses would be good too in that case to get attacks vs flat-footed, pretty much always.
You do have Sense Vitals, right?
+16 seems like you probably don't want Power Attack on all the time, so as long as you know when to toggle it off that's OK. Your AC is a little low, but with Mirror Image and Shield Wall that's OK too.
No subclass on the Rogue? Because you have good Cha and good Str, Intimidating Presence, and took Rogue levels anyway, it would likely be better as a Thug. Then you could take Cornball Smash to get frighten AoOs (which are much more manageable on one enemy at a time than the Fear AoE from a Thug with Dreadful Carnage meme, which in my experience just sends mobs running away until they aggro the whole map, and drags the fight out). Shatter Defenses would be good too in that case to get attacks vs flat-footed, pretty much always.
You do have Sense Vitals, right?
Deleted Member 16721
Guest
Looks pretty
+16 seems like you probably don't want Power Attack on all the time, so as long as you know when to toggle it off that's OK. Your AC is a little low, but with Mirror Image and Shield Wall that's OK too.
No subclass on the Rogue? Because you have good Cha and good Str, Intimidating Presence, and took Rogue levels anyway, it would likely be better as a Thug. Then you could take Cornball Smash to get frighten AoOs (which are much more manageable on one enemy at a time than the Fear AoE from a Thug with Dreadful Carnage meme, which in my experience just sends mobs running away until they aggro the whole map, and drags the fight out). Shatter Defenses would be good too in that case to get attacks vs flat-footed, pretty much always.
You do have Sense Vitals, right?
Thanks for the response! I don't have Sense Vitals, no. I guess I can pick it up next level. I was going to take Cornugon Smash but it seemed like weird micromanaging, I have to wait until I land a hit and then Demoralize, right? I will consider it for level 15, if it's not too late to be useful then. Intimidating Prowess also works on Intimidate checks in dialogue, which helps here and there, and I should use Demoralize in general more since I could probably demoralize most characters I fight now with these stats.
I also have Linzi I believe with Displacement, so she can cast it on me. I can Heroism or have Jaethal cast Greater Heroism, and toggle my Luck skill so my +16 is actually +18 (I use Arch's Luck a lot when a fight looks like it will be tougher). The AC is low but in my playthrough it's actually 2nd highest on the team, which is weird, maybe I'm not equipping my guys properly (Valerie, my Stalwart Defender has a 40 AC. And actually Nok-Nok with the Bracers of Armor +5 has 33, so mine is 3rd highest). That is why I got Mirror Image though.
Thanks again for looking it over. Weird I didn't subclass on the Rogue, not sure my motives at the time but maybe I didn't like any of the subclasses then. I guess I didn't want to be a Thug and more of a nice guy killer.
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No problem!Looks pretty
+16 seems like you probably don't want Power Attack on all the time, so as long as you know when to toggle it off that's OK. Your AC is a little low, but with Mirror Image and Shield Wall that's OK too.
No subclass on the Rogue? Because you have good Cha and good Str, Intimidating Presence, and took Rogue levels anyway, it would likely be better as a Thug. Then you could take Cornball Smash to get frighten AoOs (which are much more manageable on one enemy at a time than the Fear AoE from a Thug with Dreadful Carnage meme, which in my experience just sends mobs running away until they aggro the whole map, and drags the fight out). Shatter Defenses would be good too in that case to get attacks vs flat-footed, pretty much always.
You do have Sense Vitals, right?
Thanks for the response! I don't have Sense Vitals, no. I guess I can pick it up next level. I was going to take Cornugon Smash but it seemed like weird micromanaging, I have to wait until I land a hit and then Demoralize, right? I will consider it for level 15, if it's not too late to be useful then. Intimidating Prowess also works on Intimidate checks in dialogue, which helps here and there, and I should use Demoralize in general more since I could probably demoralize most characters I fight now with these stats.
I also have Linzi I believe with Displacement, so she can cast it on me. I can Heroism or have Jaethal cast Greater Heroism, and toggle my Luck skill so my +16 is actually +18 (I use Arch's Luck a lot when a fight looks like it will be tougher). The AC is low but in my playthrough it's actually 2nd highest on the team, which is weird, maybe I'm not equipping my guys properly (Valerie, my Stalwart Defender has a 40 AC. And actually Nok-Nok with the Bracers of Armor +5 has 33, so mine is 3rd highest). That is why I got Mirror Image though.
Thanks again for looking it over. Weird I didn't subclass on the Rogue, not sure my motives at the time but maybe I didn't like any of the subclasses then. I guess I didn't want to be a Thug and more of a nice guy killer.
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said
)Deleted Member 16721
Guest
No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said
Ah, man. Wish I would have brought this up earlier! I would have taken Cornugon Smash for sure if I knew it auto-activated. It seemed like the Magus stuff which required micromanagement. Ah well. Level 15 I'll probably grab that, and Sense Vitals when I can (is that available for Bards?) And while I'm asking, how does the Magus class work? Do you have to make an attack and then select a spell to cast?
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Hey guys, I'm probably going to play the campaign on and off during work downtime, which means that I don't really want to invest much time in coming up with a build myself. I think I want to play a human Knife Master, but I can't find a decent guide on it on the internet. What is the stat distribution I should aim for, besides maxing out dexterity? I usually like to play face characters, but I'm not sure how viable it is to invest in charisma and/or persuasion in this game. What are the must have feats?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Efe
Erudite
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normally whenever you cast a spell, you try to hit a touch attack with that spell.
magus using spellstrike casts the spell then makes an attack with weapon. with spell combat he makes full attack. you only click on spell. rest is automatic (both abilities are toggles like power attack)
you don't have to micromanage your magus more than your rogue. you can just pop an enduring flaming/frost/shock blade (all of them together if you want) and keep doing auto attacks.
paladins and inquisitors get very little uses of similar abilities and magus can just clear whole maps while keeping them active. spell casts are for dealing that extra damage on bosses/big guys or when you want to tank with your magus and need to buff up.
magus using spellstrike casts the spell then makes an attack with weapon. with spell combat he makes full attack. you only click on spell. rest is automatic (both abilities are toggles like power attack)
you don't have to micromanage your magus more than your rogue. you can just pop an enduring flaming/frost/shock blade (all of them together if you want) and keep doing auto attacks.
paladins and inquisitors get very little uses of similar abilities and magus can just clear whole maps while keeping them active. spell casts are for dealing that extra damage on bosses/big guys or when you want to tank with your magus and need to buff up.
ArchAngel
Arcane
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What you got here loses 4 BAB. You better get 4 attack bonus back from other abilities of these classes if you want this character to hit stuff in melee...
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Unless there's some weird Archaeologist thing, you should have access to Sense Vitals.No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said
Ah, man. Wish I would have brought this up earlier! I would have taken Cornugon Smash for sure if I knew it auto-activated. It seemed like the Magus stuff which required micromanagement. Ah well. Level 15 I'll probably grab that, and Sense Vitals when I can (is that available for Bards?) And while I'm asking, how does the Magus class work? Do you have to make an attack and then select a spell to cast?
Linzi does did 
Cast Spell > Full Attack at -2AB
or
Cast Touch Spell ("charges" your weapon) > Free attack to deliver touch spell at -2AB> Full attack (which can also deliver touch spell if your free attack missed) at -2AB.
It is still quite micro-heavy but not as much as a lot of people seem to imply and they are pretty versatile, too.
I'm not an expert on Knife Master, but:
Max Dex, yes. Probably Dex > Int > Wis > Con, to get lots of skills and keep your Will/Fort saves looking OK. If you only want a couple of skills though, you can dump Int.
Investing in Charisma isn't necessary to be good at Persuasion, you can leave it at 8 as long as you max Persuasion skill every level. Persuasion is definitely worth it, the game has shared skill checks most of the time but the most important solo checks are usually Persuasion.
Take Daggers and Kukris as your free Rogue Finesse weapons obviously. Daggers first, since you'll find magic daggers before magic kukris (although there are both in Chapter 1).
Obviously you want TWF feats. Everyone in your party who is in melee half the time or more should have Outflank. It's very good, and to capitalize on it, you should get Combat Reflexes too IMO, and probably Seize the Moment eventually.
Crippling Strike and Opportunist are good Advanced Talents.
You'll also want Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Skill Focus (Persuasion) if you really want to be a good face. You will likely want Blind Fight for the late game but it's not necessary early on at all.
1 level of Vivisectionist is good too for the extra Sneak Attack and buffs from Mutagen and spells.
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Sweet, thanks.
One question though. I know that the game uses charisma as a modifier for persuasion checks, but are there any pure charisma checks at all? Or is the stat more or less just the intelligence equivalent for paladins and bards and kinda useless for everybody else?
One question though. I know that the game uses charisma as a modifier for persuasion checks, but are there any pure charisma checks at all? Or is the stat more or less just the intelligence equivalent for paladins and bards and kinda useless for everybody else?
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Unless there's some weird Archaeologist thing, you should have access to Sense Vitals.No problem!
Definitely get Sense Vitals the next time you can take a level 2 spell.
You don't have to toggle Demoralize for Corn Smash, it counts as being on whenever Power Attack is active. It triggers whenever you land a Power Attack.
Yeah, Demoralize checks are quite low, Valerie doesn't even have Intimidating Presence (but she does have the +Intimidate helmet) and 17 Cha, but she has quite high success rate with it anyway.
Val's AC seems quite low for level 13, but 40 is a lot compared to 30. You also will probably start picking up a lot more +AC items fairly soon, based on your level.
The build would be more optimized as a Thug in my opinion, but RP is fine - I never give Valerie Thug levels either. I've been giving Regongar Thug 1 and Corn Smash, though, which works pretty well (but I did not like when he AoE'd everyone, like I said
Ah, man. Wish I would have brought this up earlier! I would have taken Cornugon Smash for sure if I knew it auto-activated. It seemed like the Magus stuff which required micromanagement. Ah well. Level 15 I'll probably grab that, and Sense Vitals when I can (is that available for Bards?) And while I'm asking, how does the Magus class work? Do you have to make an attack and then select a spell to cast?Magus is backwards actually, as long as you have a free hand and Spellstrike/Spell Combat active. It goes:Linzidoesdid
Cast Spell > Full Attack at -2AB
or
Cast Touch Spell ("charges" your weapon) > Free attack to deliver touch spell at -2AB> Full attack (which can also deliver touch spell if your free attack missed) at -2AB.
It is still quite micro-heavy but not as much as a lot of people seem to imply and they are pretty versatile, too.
I'm not an expert on Knife Master, but:
Max Dex, yes. Probably Dex > Int > Wis > Con, to get lots of skills and keep your Will/Fort saves looking OK. If you only want a couple of skills though, you can dump Int.
Investing in Charisma isn't necessary to be good at Persuasion, you can leave it at 8 as long as you max Persuasion skill every level. Persuasion is definitely worth it, the game has shared skill checks most of the time but the most important solo checks are usually Persuasion.
Take Daggers and Kukris as your free Rogue Finesse weapons obviously. Daggers first, since you'll find magic daggers before magic kukris (although there are both in Chapter 1).
Obviously you want TWF feats. Everyone in your party who is in melee half the time or more should have Outflank. It's very good, and to capitalize on it, you should get Combat Reflexes too IMO, and probably Seize the Moment eventually.
Crippling Strike and Opportunist are good Advanced Talents.
You'll also want Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Skill Focus (Persuasion) if you really want to be a good face. You will likely want Blind Fight for the late game but it's not necessary early on at all.
1 level of Vivisectionist is good too for the extra Sneak Attack and buffs from Mutagen and spells.
Mostly good advice. But from what I've read so far about Seize the Moment, is that it overlaps with Outflank and you only get 1 AoO from a crit on flanked enemy (Seize the Moment also works for ranged, but... meh). So unless it was changed in 1.1, Seize the Moment is likely not worth it (as you have Outflank anyway already).
Never mind, it was a brain fart.
Last edited:
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I thought Knife Masters use dex as damage modifier for daggers, kukris and so on.
Those were pretty much just random numbers, but I went with 16 int according to Lawntoilet's breakdown of stat importance. I played this game for like 2 hours on release and have no other experience with Pathfinder systems. I just thought more int = more skill points = profit.
Sorry you're right, you're using DEX for selected weapon for both attack and damage rolls. A brain fart on my part. Still I'd say CON >>>>> INT for a frontliner.
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Okay, makes sense then.
What's your reasoning for putting 16 points into charisma? Does it do more than just modifying persuasion checks? Somebody else said that increasing persuasion every level up should be enough.
Oh, and Aasimar heritage is straight up +2 bonuses on two different ability scores, right?
hell bovine
Arcane
Unless you play on hard or higher, you don't need to min-max every stat. Regarding intelligence, keep in mind skills can be further boosted by taking the relevant feats. For example, my druid has persuasive and skill focus: persuasion, both of which give a larger boost if you raise the skill past 10 points. Together with items he now has something like 30 persuasion, which is not bad for a guy with 10 base charisma. And rogues get far more feats to play with.
edit: Alternatively, if you want that high intelligence on your character, then the alchemist vivisectionist might be a better choice, because alchemists use intelligence for their
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Eh, I kinda wanna murder some people like that annoying halfling bard child from the intro, so I don't know about lawful good.
Yeah, I was set on playing on hard mode.
It's not necessarily about wanting a specific stat distribution, but more about an appropriate one for the character I have in mind. Backstabbing and practical rouge type, who can talk his way in or out of certain situations.
I don't want to meta game too much, with picking up paladin and monk levels for the super min maxed elite build and all that jazz, but taking a level in vivisectionist for the buffs seems fitting.
hell bovine
Arcane
It's not just the mutagen (and alchemists get an improved version of it at higher levels) that makes alchemists such good buffers, though. They get a very useful
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Yeah, arguably pick 4 levels in Knife Master (for d8 sneak damage, weapon finesse, dex to damage, Uncanny Dodge, debilitating injury) and the rest in Vivisectionist (well 1 monk, if you can be lawful). You'll have a much stronger character this way.
Deleted Member 16721
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But..but..I can Demoralize!
I see what you mean. Maybe it's better if I switch off Power Attack (+18) and don't forget I use Archaeologist's Luck a lot which gives me +2 to attack rolls, damage rolls and more (+20). So that kind of makes up for the difference, maybe?Edit - And Jaethal has Greater Heroism (+4 to attack rolls I believe) which stacks with my Luck bonus from Arch's Luck. So I should be alright. What do you think?
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I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads up.
You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.
But..but..I can Demoralize!
Edit - And Jaethal has Greater Heroism (+4 to attack rolls I believe) which stacks with my Luck bonus from Arch's Luck. So I should be alright. What do you think?
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