Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Efe]

Reason i like magus so much is that with by making every attack a touch attack you basically cannot miss. Meaning you can stack a lot of penalty to attack and still land them.

you do the opposite. you take touch attacks and turn them into weapon attacks.
you can add brilliant energy to igore armor but thats it

 

[Lhynn]

Isn't that pool point per round or enduring blade works with it???

For a whole minute. As long as you set up that effect.
Useless against undead tho.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Isn't that pool point per round or enduring blade works with it???

For a whole minute. As long as you set up that effect.
Useless against undead tho.

You mean Brilliant Energy? That should work with Enduring Blade and stay 1 minute per level. It takes 4 of your Enchant pool points though which is kind of a lot.
Dimension Strike lets you target Touch AC too but only for one turn.

 

[Lhynn]

As far as I remember it takes just 1 point. But eats a +4 of the +5 you can pick from possible enchantments.

 

[Lawntoilet]

As far as I remember it takes just 1 point. But eats a +4 of the +5 you can pick from possible enchantments.

Yeah, that was what I meant by "Enchant pool" as opposed to Arcane Point pool, could've been more clear.
But if you have Enduring Blade it takes 2 Arcane pool points to make it 1 minute per level instead of 1 minute.

 

[Lhynn]

Well. The difference isn't that big, you get to keep natural armor against brilliant energy. Losing armor + shield is yuge.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Well. The difference isn't that big, you get to keep natural armor against brilliant energy. Losing armor + shield is yuge.

It's close for a lot of enemies but the difference is very big on monsters with tons of Natural AC, like Illuthiak. Dimension Strike on the other hand drops his AC to like 8.

 

[ArchAngel]

Mostly good advice. But from what I've read so far about Seize the Moment, is that it overlaps with Outflank and you only get 1 AoO from a crit on flanked enemy (Seize the Moment also works for ranged, but... meh). So unless it was changed in 1.1, Seize the Moment is likely not worth it (as you have Outflank anyway already).

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads up.

What you got here loses 4 BAB. You better get 4 attack bonus back from other abilities of these classes if you want this character to hit stuff in melee...

But..but..I can Demoralize! I see what you mean. Maybe it's better if I switch off Power Attack (+18) and don't forget I use Archaeologist's Luck a lot which gives me +2 to attack rolls, damage rolls and more (+20). So that kind of makes up for the difference, maybe?

Edit - And Jaethal has Greater Heroism (+4 to attack rolls I believe) which stacks with my Luck bonus from Arch's Luck. So I should be alright. What do you think?

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

Dragon disciple in that build is not the problem because he gives more attack bonus than he has levels. Bard gives too little. I would rather take ranger (freebooter) as it is full bab + bonus but you lose requirement for DD.
Personally I would do barbarian x/bard1/DD rest or something and be full melee. Or replace barbarian with pure fighter that specs in two handed weapons.

 

[ArchAngel]

So I want to play a Druid. Any ideas? Preferably something not melee since I tend to play melee guys generally.

Thanks

Druid kind of work as summoners in early game until you can get best spells.
But they are best as buffers for their animal companion
They are not good as ranged characters. You need precise shot for that but that feat is not very useful later.
At lvl 5 you will get Call Lightning and that will be your ranged attack.
Max wisdom, take the version that fights fey and combine companion with summons and then later you take Natural Spell, go around in elemental form and cast Call Lightning and Flame Strike at everyone.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

Yeah, the +4 STR helps. I'll keep BAB in mind. For some reason, it seems I get a second attack from the extra 1d6 on my Arcane *Something* Dueling Sword +3. And it is Force damage and also stacks sneak attack damage. I have to look at the combat log closer but he seems to be doing good damage so far.

Dragon disciple in that build is not the problem because he gives more attack bonus than he has levels. Bard gives too little. I would rather take ranger (freebooter) as it is full bab + bonus but you lose requirement for DD.
Personally I would do barbarian x/bard1/DD rest or something and be full melee. Or replace barbarian with pure fighter that specs in two handed weapons.

Yeah, I wasn't powergaming or anything, just picked Archaeologist as a roleplaying thing and branched out. Wasn't going for a min/max build but just something fun and half-decent.

 

[ArchAngel]

well you picked a dex/cha class(bard), combined it with Dex/Int class (rogue) and added a strenght/cha prestige class.. you see where I am going here?!

Pure bard archer works well in pathfinder. Archeologist might even work better as he get to use swift action for his ability from the start.

 

[Lawntoilet]

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

Yeah, the +4 STR helps. I'll keep BAB in mind. For some reason, it seems I get a second attack from the extra 1d6 on my Arcane *Something* Dueling Sword +3. And it is Force damage and also stacks sneak attack damage. I have to look at the combat log closer but he seems to be doing good damage so far.

Dragon disciple in that build is not the problem because he gives more attack bonus than he has levels. Bard gives too little. I would rather take ranger (freebooter) as it is full bab + bonus but you lose requirement for DD.
Personally I would do barbarian x/bard1/DD rest or something and be full melee. Or replace barbarian with pure fighter that specs in two handed weapons.

Yeah, I wasn't powergaming or anything, just picked Archaeologist as a roleplaying thing and branched out. Wasn't going for a min/max build but just something fun and half-decent.

Oh yeah that's a bug. That sword is supposed to do the extra 1d6 damage, but Sneak attack is triggering on extra dice added to attacks (except for elemental enchants on weapons). The Corrosive Gauntlets (?) that add 1d6 acid damage and Endless War do the same thing.

 

[Efe]

also either i dont get weapon enchantment of magus correctly or its bugged since release.
with +5 pool, i can do frost(1) fire(1) shock(1), brilliant energy (4) and bane (1). spending 8 point total. so you get 5d6 dmg dice
but just using brilliant energy correctly gives +1 enchantment to weapon.

 

[Lawntoilet]

also either i dont get weapon enchantment of magus correctly or its bugged since release.
with +5 pool, i can do frost(1) fire(1) shock(1), brilliant energy (4) and bane (1). spending 8 point total. so you get 5d6 dmg dice
but just using brilliant energy correctly gives +1 enchantment to weapon.

You shouldn't be able to add Brilliant Energy in that case. I might be wrong but don't think Bane uses up your available enchantment, though, it is applied when you enchant your weapon, but it is outside the +5 limit. Instead, it costs 2 extra arcane points from your pool.
So, you should be able to add frost, fire, shock, Holy, and Bane. Or Brilliant Energy, Bane, and frost or shock or fire.

 

[hell bovine]

Druid kind of work as summoners in early game until you can get best spells.
But they are best as buffers for their animal companion
They are not good as ranged characters. You need precise shot for that but that feat is not very useful later.
At lvl 5 you will get Call Lightning and that will be your ranged attack.
Max wisdom, take the version that fights fey and combine companion with summons and then later you take Natural Spell, go around in elemental form and cast Call Lightning and Flame Strike at everyone.

Call lightning is quite weak in my opinion, while flamestrike is only so-so. I've tested both and frankly, with the buffs you get as a druid & that lovely longbow from chapter two, bows were just better early game, until you switch to mass aoe. The good spells start with vinetrap, followed by the sirocco & tar pool combination. Summoning I rarely bother with due to how spontaneous summoning works (you always get only one summon). It's somewhat useful once you can summon mastodons, since they make very good doorstoppers due to their sheer size.

Honestly, if you want to spam offensive spells while hiding behind your pet, go for sylvan sorcerer instead. They get all the good pet buffing spells except barkskin, and you can get that from an alchemist.

 

[ArchAngel]

Druid kind of work as summoners in early game until you can get best spells.
But they are best as buffers for their animal companion
They are not good as ranged characters. You need precise shot for that but that feat is not very useful later.
At lvl 5 you will get Call Lightning and that will be your ranged attack.
Max wisdom, take the version that fights fey and combine companion with summons and then later you take Natural Spell, go around in elemental form and cast Call Lightning and Flame Strike at everyone.

Call lightning is quite weak in my opinion, while flamestrike is only so-so. I've tested both and frankly, with the buffs you get as a druid & that lovely longbow from chapter two, bows were just better early game, until you switch to mass aoe. The good spells start with vinetrap, followed by the sirocco & tar pool combination. Summoning I rarely bother with due to how spontaneous summoning works (you always get only one summon). It's somewhat useful once you can summon mastodons, since they make very good doorstoppers due to their sheer size.

Honestly, if you want to spam offensive spells while hiding behind your pet, go for sylvan sorcerer instead. They get all the good pet buffing spells except barkskin, and you can get that from an alchemist.

Call Lightning is good enough considering its duration. Don't forget that at lvl 5 you actually get 5x3d6 (and 5x3d10 if outside and it is raining or stormy weather). 15d6 at lvl 5 is pretty good. Later its damage becomes weak, but so does spells like Fireball at high levels.
Still better to take Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning than Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

 

[hell bovine]

Call Lightning is good enough considering its duration. Don't forget that at lvl 5 you actually get 5x3d6 (and 5x3d10 if outside and it is raining or stormy weather). 15d6 at lvl 5 is pretty good. Later its damage becomes weak, but so does spells like Fireball at high levels.
Still better to take Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning than Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

Not good enough for me, same with fireball. Call lightning competes with communal delay poison and communal resist energy for spell slots, while fireball is a waste of space compared to stinking cloud, slow or haste. At lower levels a druid with a longbow (or rather sling now) and buffs can get more out of his spellbook than the few lightning bolts, subject to reflex save & evasion. And at higher levels there is sirocco. Regarding the feats, at level 5 your one spontaneus summon lasts 5 rounds, which is not long enough to make use of augment summoning. Later levels summons are only good as doorstoppers. If spontaneous summoning would work like memorized spells, the situation would be different, but as it is, clerics with animate dead and monster tactician inquisitors make better summoners.

I like my druid, but frankly, all the lower level offensive spells were a disappointment and the shapeshifting was buggy, which is why I switched him to a bow.

 

[ArchAngel]

Call Lightning is good enough considering its duration. Don't forget that at lvl 5 you actually get 5x3d6 (and 5x3d10 if outside and it is raining or stormy weather). 15d6 at lvl 5 is pretty good. Later its damage becomes weak, but so does spells like Fireball at high levels.
Still better to take Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning than Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

Not good enough for me, same with fireball. Call lightning competes with communal delay poison and communal resist energy for spell slots, while fireball is a waste of space compared to stinking cloud, slow or haste. At lower levels a druid with a longbow (or rather sling now) and buffs can get more out of his spellbook than the few lightning bolts, subject to reflex save & evasion. And at higher levels there is sirocco. Regarding the feats, at level 5 your one spontaneus summon lasts 5 rounds, which is not long enough to make use of augment summoning. Later levels summons are only good as doorstoppers. If spontaneous summoning would work like memorized spells, the situation would be different, but as it is, clerics with animate dead and monster tactician inquisitors make better summoners.

I like my druid, but frankly, all the lower level offensive spells were a disappointment and the shapeshifting was buggy, which is why I switched him to a bow.

No it does not. Druid is not a replacement for a Priest, but an addition to one. You have those spells on a priest.
As for summons, battles that last longer than 5 rounds are pretty rare. Still better than wasting feats on Precise Shot. Bow is like 1d8+3? With a bad attack bonus and one attack per round. I rather attack with 3d6 with save for half (evasion is rare ability on enemies). At least you get certain damage and in some situations you do 3d10.
And I never said Druid is a best summoner, I said that his summons can be used so the druid is more useful during lower levels until he can get to high level spells.

And Shapershiting is not bad lol. At mid levels you get access to big elementals that got natural reach, it lets you attack from safe areas. Stone Elementals gets Strength and attack bonuses, you can buff yourself with Greater Natural Weapon and Bull's Strength and it is a nice support to your melee dudes.

Or you shift into Air Elementals, get lots of Dex and super speed bonus. You can kite stuff alone on the map with Storm Call and Greater Storm call.

 

[Cael]

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

Yeah, the +4 STR helps. I'll keep BAB in mind. For some reason, it seems I get a second attack from the extra 1d6 on my Arcane *Something* Dueling Sword +3. And it is Force damage and also stacks sneak attack damage. I have to look at the combat log closer but he seems to be doing good damage so far.

Dragon disciple in that build is not the problem because he gives more attack bonus than he has levels. Bard gives too little. I would rather take ranger (freebooter) as it is full bab + bonus but you lose requirement for DD.
Personally I would do barbarian x/bard1/DD rest or something and be full melee. Or replace barbarian with pure fighter that specs in two handed weapons.

Yeah, I wasn't powergaming or anything, just picked Archaeologist as a roleplaying thing and branched out. Wasn't going for a min/max build but just something fun and half-decent.

Oh yeah that's a bug. That sword is supposed to do the extra 1d6 damage, but Sneak attack is triggering on extra dice added to attacks (except for elemental enchants on weapons). The Corrosive Gauntlets (?) that add 1d6 acid damage and Endless War do the same thing.

Paizotard fanboi: That's not a bug! It's a feature!!!!

 

[Lawntoilet]

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

Yeah, the +4 STR helps. I'll keep BAB in mind. For some reason, it seems I get a second attack from the extra 1d6 on my Arcane *Something* Dueling Sword +3. And it is Force damage and also stacks sneak attack damage. I have to look at the combat log closer but he seems to be doing good damage so far.

Dragon disciple in that build is not the problem because he gives more attack bonus than he has levels. Bard gives too little. I would rather take ranger (freebooter) as it is full bab + bonus but you lose requirement for DD.
Personally I would do barbarian x/bard1/DD rest or something and be full melee. Or replace barbarian with pure fighter that specs in two handed weapons.

Yeah, I wasn't powergaming or anything, just picked Archaeologist as a roleplaying thing and branched out. Wasn't going for a min/max build but just something fun and half-decent.

Oh yeah that's a bug. That sword is supposed to do the extra 1d6 damage, but Sneak attack is triggering on extra dice added to attacks (except for elemental enchants on weapons). The Corrosive Gauntlets (?) that add 1d6 acid damage and Endless War do the same thing.

Paizotard fanboi: That's not a bug! It's a feature!!!!

It's ironic actually, the only people I've seen defend any bugs in this game were the Paizo designers
On one of the streams, they were telling Owlcat that they love the way Sneak Attack was implemented, referring to it triggering multiple times on multiple rays.
Otherwise, most discussions I see on Reddit are stupid meme shit, and on Steam it is mostly people bitching about the game being too hard (because they clearly didn't read the rules), or shrieking for/against Owlcat adding respec.
The Patch Notes thread is the only one on Steam that isn't pure :autism:

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

well you picked a dex/cha class(bard), combined it with Dex/Int class (rogue) and added a strenght/cha prestige class.. you see where I am going here?!

Pure bard archer works well in pathfinder. Archeologist might even work better as he get to use swift action for his ability from the start.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Funny thing, but my main stats at the start (not realizing what you just mentioned about each class) were STR/CHA/INT. So, it kind of works out in a weird way. The character's far from perfect right now but it's working alright. So far, so good on Challenging difficulty. Probably wouldn't fly on Hard/Unfair, though.

 

[hell bovine]

No it does not. Druid is not a replacement for a Priest, but an addition to one. You have those spells on a priest.
As for summons, battles that last longer than 5 rounds are pretty rare. Still better than wasting feats on Precise Shot. Bow is like 1d8+3? With a bad attack bonus and one attack per round. I rather attack with 3d6 with save for half (evasion is rare ability on enemies). At least you get certain damage and in some situations you do 3d10.
And I never said Druid is a best summoner, I said that his summons can be used so the druid is more useful during lower levels until he can get to high level spells.

And Shapershiting is not bad lol. At mid levels you get access to big elementals that got natural reach, it lets you attack from safe areas. Stone Elementals gets Strength and attack bonuses, you can buff yourself with Greater Natural Weapon and Bull's Strength and it is a nice support to your melee dudes.

Or you shift into Air Elementals, get lots of Dex and super speed bonus. You can kite stuff alone on the map with Storm Call and Greater Storm call.

That you have have these spells on a priest doesn't make call lightning good. It's about the economy of spellcasting in a game where resting is limited due to time being a valuable resource, and where most battles are mobs. How many call lightnings can your druid even memorize at level 5? And once you've used them up, how is he going to contribute to combat? If my druid covers communal delay poison & resist energy instead, my cleric can memorize animate dead, which is superior to spontaneus summoning, even if you prop that one frog up with augment summoning. Meanwhile you can prop the damage on composite bows a bit by buffing strength, and that chapter two bow has very good stats. I have tested both variants in-game, and never bothered with call lightning again.

Also read what I wrote: shapeshifting wasn't bad when I've tried it, it was buggy, and the original question wasn't about a melee druid build anyway. And if by greater natural weapon you mean magic fang, that one was bugged too and did nothing. (no idea what the current stand on this with hotfixes is)

 

[Elex]

You also have that +4 Str from Dragon Disciple which helps. It's not like you're borked, BAB is just something important to consider in a build.

Yeah, the +4 STR helps. I'll keep BAB in mind. For some reason, it seems I get a second attack from the extra 1d6 on my Arcane *Something* Dueling Sword +3. And it is Force damage and also stacks sneak attack damage. I have to look at the combat log closer but he seems to be doing good damage so far.

Dragon disciple in that build is not the problem because he gives more attack bonus than he has levels. Bard gives too little. I would rather take ranger (freebooter) as it is full bab + bonus but you lose requirement for DD.
Personally I would do barbarian x/bard1/DD rest or something and be full melee. Or replace barbarian with pure fighter that specs in two handed weapons.

Yeah, I wasn't powergaming or anything, just picked Archaeologist as a roleplaying thing and branched out. Wasn't going for a min/max build but just something fun and half-decent.

Oh yeah that's a bug. That sword is supposed to do the extra 1d6 damage, but Sneak attack is triggering on extra dice added to attacks (except for elemental enchants on weapons). The Corrosive Gauntlets (?) that add 1d6 acid damage and Endless War do the same thing.

Paizotard fanboi: That's not a bug! It's a feature!!!!

It's ironic actually, the only people I've seen defend any bugs in this game were the Paizo designers
On one of the streams, they were telling Owlcat that they love the way Sneak Attack was implemented, referring to it triggering multiple times on multiple rays.
Otherwise, most discussions I see on Reddit are stupid meme shit, and on Steam it is mostly people bitching about the game being too hard (because they clearly didn't read the rules), or shrieking for/against Owlcat adding respec.
The Patch Notes thread is the only one on Steam that isn't pure :autism:

WAIT WAT.
so pathfinder is the correct way of use the sneak attack in patfhinder?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

WAIT WAT.
so pathfinder is the correct way of use the sneak attack in patfhinder?

Please tell me it is, so I don't feel like I'm cheating with my Dueling Sword that rolls sneak attack twice.

 

[Lhynn]

WAIT WAT.
so pathfinder is the correct way of use the sneak attack in patfhinder?

Please tell me it is, so I don't feel like I'm cheating with my Dueling Sword that rolls sneak attack twice.

You are cheating you horrible, horrible cheater.