Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Haplo]

A magus is a caster... but maybe lets not go there.

+6-7 may not be the be all/end all, but it's pretty significant in my book. And costs half as much as Dimension Strike (where for many enemies you can get most of the effect with Brilliant Energy for minutes per level).

 

[Yosharian]

Also, using arcane accuracy is a bad deal. It is +3 to attack roll for ONE TURN for one 1 AP. That point is better invested as always to get weapon enhance.

My Scion will eventually have +10 Charisma bonus.

 

[Yosharian]

A 6 or a 7, is quite low compared to what a touch attack is at high levels, frankly, that is when the high BAB kicks in when used in tandem with Power attack. That is at least how I do it. Also, I put my high int/cha items on the casters to get the extra DC boosts there.

Is it possible to actually see some AC breakdowns on some lategame and/or boss enemies to actually analyse that? Because my Scion will have +10 Charisma bonus guaranteed by end-game, and so I'd like to actually do a cost analysis on what Dimension Strike gives vs Arcane Accuracy. Yes obviously doing your attacks as Touch effectively grants a huge bonus, but how much exactly?

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, true. But I'd still autocast Touch of Fatigue and just disable it when I want to use Shocking Grasp/Frigid/Vampiric Touch.
It doesn't matter for other spells, as he won't hold them when failing.

You should not, if he casts it every round first he spends 3s casting it and not attacking.

Doesn't matter unless you want to move that round. A round has 6 s. It's still an extra cast & free attack with Spellstrike. You'll still do your iterative attacks that round afterwards - unless you move. Or unless you turn off Spell Combat / use a two-hander.
Of course it does reduce Accuracy by 2 AB and you can provoke AoOs if you fail Concentration for Defensive Casting.

You seem to confuse this game with a TB one. 3s means a lot. I means you hit that enemy and kill him now before he gets to attack you back. You get to hit that mage and kill him now before he gets to disable you all. It also means you can kill that enemy and run away if the situation warrants it (and I had those situations when suddenly more dangerous enemies showed up).

 

[Haplo]

Iterative attacks are spread over 6 s. anyway. So this makes a big difference only if you attack once (where with Spell Combat that could be 2 attacks)?

 

[ArchAngel]

A 6 or a 7, is quite low compared to what a touch attack is at high levels, frankly, that is when the high BAB kicks in when used in tandem with Power attack. That is at least how I do it. Also, I put my high int/cha items on the casters to get the extra DC boosts there.

Is it possible to actually see some AC breakdowns on some lategame and/or boss enemies to actually analyse that? Because my Scion will have +10 Charisma bonus guaranteed by end-game, and so I'd like to actually do a cost analysis on what Dimension Strike gives vs Arcane Accuracy. Yes obviously doing your attacks as Touch effectively grants a huge bonus, but how much exactly?

vs a lot of enemies it lets you turn on Power Attack (if you have it) and still hit them 95% of the time.

 

[Haplo]

A 6 or a 7, is quite low compared to what a touch attack is at high levels, frankly, that is when the high BAB kicks in when used in tandem with Power attack. That is at least how I do it. Also, I put my high int/cha items on the casters to get the extra DC boosts there.

Is it possible to actually see some AC breakdowns on some lategame and/or boss enemies to actually analyse that? Because my Scion will have +10 Charisma bonus guaranteed by end-game, and so I'd like to actually do a cost analysis on what Dimension Strike gives vs Arcane Accuracy. Yes obviously doing your attacks as Touch effectively grants a huge bonus, but how much exactly?

vs a lot of enemies it lets you turn on Power Attack (if you have it) and still hit them 95% of the time.

Even on your 3rd/4th attack?

 

[ArchAngel]

Iterative attacks are spread over 6 s. anyway. So this makes a big difference only if you attack once (where with Spell Combat that could be 2 attacks)?

I am not talking about iterative attacks, I am talking how the game is designed. Weapon attack always happen at start of your round, while casters always cast for 3s and then do the effect of that cast (unless you quicken).
My Reg can deal good damage with improved crit scimitar with arcane strike on, even if just using touch of fatigue that does not give bonus damage it is worth it to maximize his action economy so he gets that early hit on that in combination with others can kill enemies before they get a chance to deal damage.

 

[ArchAngel]

A 6 or a 7, is quite low compared to what a touch attack is at high levels, frankly, that is when the high BAB kicks in when used in tandem with Power attack. That is at least how I do it. Also, I put my high int/cha items on the casters to get the extra DC boosts there.

Is it possible to actually see some AC breakdowns on some lategame and/or boss enemies to actually analyse that? Because my Scion will have +10 Charisma bonus guaranteed by end-game, and so I'd like to actually do a cost analysis on what Dimension Strike gives vs Arcane Accuracy. Yes obviously doing your attacks as Touch effectively grants a huge bonus, but how much exactly?

vs a lot of enemies it lets you turn on Power Attack (if you have it) and still hit them 95% of the time.

Even on your 3rd/4th attack?

Magus don't have 4th attack. 3rd attack will probably still hit without power attack. But normally that last attack is always useless vs high AC enemies, it is in the game to help fighters deal with lots of weaker enemies.

 

[Haplo]

A 6 or a 7, is quite low compared to what a touch attack is at high levels, frankly, that is when the high BAB kicks in when used in tandem with Power attack. That is at least how I do it. Also, I put my high int/cha items on the casters to get the extra DC boosts there.

Is it possible to actually see some AC breakdowns on some lategame and/or boss enemies to actually analyse that? Because my Scion will have +10 Charisma bonus guaranteed by end-game, and so I'd like to actually do a cost analysis on what Dimension Strike gives vs Arcane Accuracy. Yes obviously doing your attacks as Touch effectively grants a huge bonus, but how much exactly?

vs a lot of enemies it lets you turn on Power Attack (if you have it) and still hit them 95% of the time.

Even on your 3rd/4th attack?

Magus don't have 4th attack. 3rd attack will probably still hit without power attack. But normally that last attack is always useless vs high AC enemies, it is in the game to help fighters deal with lots of weaker enemies.

He does with Haste or a Speed weapon. Or Transformation for that matter.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

so any good kineticist builds?

 

[ArchAngel]

A 6 or a 7, is quite low compared to what a touch attack is at high levels, frankly, that is when the high BAB kicks in when used in tandem with Power attack. That is at least how I do it. Also, I put my high int/cha items on the casters to get the extra DC boosts there.

Is it possible to actually see some AC breakdowns on some lategame and/or boss enemies to actually analyse that? Because my Scion will have +10 Charisma bonus guaranteed by end-game, and so I'd like to actually do a cost analysis on what Dimension Strike gives vs Arcane Accuracy. Yes obviously doing your attacks as Touch effectively grants a huge bonus, but how much exactly?

vs a lot of enemies it lets you turn on Power Attack (if you have it) and still hit them 95% of the time.

Even on your 3rd/4th attack?

Magus don't have 4th attack. 3rd attack will probably still hit without power attack. But normally that last attack is always useless vs high AC enemies, it is in the game to help fighters deal with lots of weaker enemies.

He does with Haste or a Speed weapon. Or Transformation for that matter.

Haste or Speed weapon give a bonus attack at best bonus so it does not matter for your question. Transformation gives a +5 bonus to all attacks at lvl 20 so it turns 3rd attack into 2nd one previously while adding 4th one into place of 3rd one. In that case my answer is the same. Except a spell like transformation is terrible for a magus since you cannot cast spells when under its effects...

 

[Haplo]

Well, its terrible for a caster magus. But if you want to ignore Spell Combat like some seem to suggest, switch Power Attack on, maybe even two-hand a blade then... why not?

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, its terrible for a caster magus. But if you want to ignore Spell Combat like some seem to suggest, switch Power Attack on, maybe even two-hand a blade then... why not?

If you want to do that, you might as well not play a Magus.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yeah. Eldtritch knight or Arcane trickster is your better bet. If you want a *real* caster-melee go for Druid or Cleric.

I wanted to suggest a Paladin instead. Full BAB, lots of defense and awesome melee boosts. Kind of like Magus but better at just smashing stuff. And does not even need that much hand holding and fucking around like Magus does.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah. Eldtritch knight or Arcane trickster is your better bet. If you want a *real* caster-melee go for Druid or Cleric.

I wanted to suggest a Paladin instead. Full BAB, lots of defense and awesome melee boosts. Kind of like Magus but better at just smashing stuff. And does not even need that much hand holding and fucking around like Magus does.

Pretty shitty AC by this game's standards and no defensive buffs to speak of, though.

Now if you proposed a Paladin/Sorc/RDD/EK....

 

[ArchAngel]

Paladin gets amazing healing yes, but little casting. I thought the idea was to suggest a caster-melee.

Well that was a suggestion for an alternative to transform magus. If you ever feel you need to use a Transform with Magus, you should have made a Paladin.

 

[Incendax]

Sacred Huntsmaster is a beast. I multiclassed Harrim to one and gave him a Mastadon pet. You get the free teamwork feats, the pet companion (the Mastadon is a beast too) and he gets extra casts of spells like Bless/Bane/etc. to bolster his Cleric spells a bit. Very good class indeed.

Yeah, I feel like it is the most balanced class in the game. Not balanced as in raw power, but in being generally useful at everything. You’ve got a brutal pet, some buffing and stat restoring spells, favored enemy to rock the primary antagonists, major perception bonuses so you don’t miss secrets and loot, every class skill so you can fill any missing niche, and even true strike spam if you want to rock a giant two hander with power attack on Unfair Difficulty.

I would easily recommend a Huntsmaster for a new player.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah. Eldtritch knight or Arcane trickster is your better bet. If you want a *real* caster-melee go for Druid or Cleric.

I wanted to suggest a Paladin instead. Full BAB, lots of defense and awesome melee boosts. Kind of like Magus but better at just smashing stuff. And does not even need that much hand holding and fucking around like Magus does.

Pretty shitty AC by this game's standards and no defensive buffs to speak of, though.

Now if you proposed a Paladin/Sorc/RDD/EK....

Dragon Disciple is garbage

But yeah, Pally relies on others to buff him, he doesn't bring many buffs to the table. The ones he does bring are all focused on Evil enemies, and they aren't great for AC

That's why in my opinion it's better to go for a Pally/caster hybrid

 

[Cael]

Pal/Sorc was pretty much cookie-cutter fighter/mage. In NWN it was Pal 2/Sorc x. In NWN2, you had the opportunity to add in EK for the extra ommph.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah. Eldtritch knight or Arcane trickster is your better bet. If you want a *real* caster-melee go for Druid or Cleric.

I wanted to suggest a Paladin instead. Full BAB, lots of defense and awesome melee boosts. Kind of like Magus but better at just smashing stuff. And does not even need that much hand holding and fucking around like Magus does.

Pretty shitty AC by this game's standards and no defensive buffs to speak of, though.

Now if you proposed a Paladin/Sorc/RDD/EK....

Dragon Disciple is garbage

It's only garbage if you want to focus on casting. If you just want to swing a big two-hander and maybe even get a free bite (which can mean a free trip), then some 4 levels are quite fine I think.

 

[Cael]

Yeah. Eldtritch knight or Arcane trickster is your better bet. If you want a *real* caster-melee go for Druid or Cleric.

I wanted to suggest a Paladin instead. Full BAB, lots of defense and awesome melee boosts. Kind of like Magus but better at just smashing stuff. And does not even need that much hand holding and fucking around like Magus does.

Pretty shitty AC by this game's standards and no defensive buffs to speak of, though.

Now if you proposed a Paladin/Sorc/RDD/EK....

Dragon Disciple is garbage

It's only garbage if you want to focus on casting. If you just want to swing a big two-hander and maybe even get a free bite (which can mean a free trip), then some 4 levels are quite fine I think.

In NWN, I use TWF for my DD. The +8 Str compensates for the -4 to-hit, and TWF wastes less damage on an already dead target than a 2-hder.

In Kingmaker, it might pa to use a 2-hder and Power Attack combo instead of TWF due to the stat inflation.

 

[Haplo]

Well, I'm not a fan of Power Attack and such. I want to hit as much as possible, maybe even with iteratives, rather then deal more damage per hit.

 

[Cael]

Well, I'm not a fan of Power Attack and such. I want to hit as much as possible, maybe even with iteratives, rather then deal more damage per hit.

Then, TWF is your best friend, triply so if you can add Dex to damage, as having to pump Dex is a major drawback of the TWF path.

 

[Haplo]

Not really, as it's at -2 AB

But I currently have two characters that finished Chapter 1, can't really decide on which I shall focus and (maybe) finish the game.

1. Strenght based tripping Oni-Spawn Tiefling Vivisectionist (with monk dip for AC and sword-saint dip for fauchard prof. and focus) and
2. Dex based human scimitar Sword Saint (with monk dip for AC)

Both will have shatter defenses for easier hitting of enemies (in case of Vivi also for easy sneaks - even when not flanking). Neither will take Power Attack/Piranha Strike.

Vivisectionist will have worse accuracy but much higher damage per hit. And will eventually greater trip almost anyone, disabling primary threats and causing lots of AoOs. Low HPs with moderate AC are a slight problem, but perhaps weak-ish Will save a much bigger one.

Sword Saint will have great AC (and defensive buffs!) and accuracy plus burst damage capability when needed. Less damage per hit, but when you add all the bonus sources (enchantments, spec./greater, arcane strike, int bonus) it'll add up. And with his accuracy, he'll have good chances to land most of his attacks. Better party synergy too, as he can main-tank, so much more freedom in companion choices. Therefore I am leaning towards the latter.