Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Haplo]

Also "Hold" type spells (paralysis effects) cause flat-footed. Stunned (like from monk stunning fist or sonic effects) might also.
And I think a character might be considered flat footed when he does not see the attacker (either due to invisibility or blindness).

But yeah, Shatter Defenses should be pretty great on non-undead, non-construct, non-insect, intelligent enemies.

I definately plan to get it on my Sword Saint (and pretty much all other melee characters, considering how easy it is to aoe mass shaken all enemies).

 

[aweigh]

Yeah, carry limits will fuck you up in this game too. I spent like 15 minutes poring over my Sword Saint's character sheet trying to find where and how I was receiving some maluses and negative effects on my character, i was just about ready to come bitch about a "new bug" too when I realized my min/maxed munchkin Sword Saint character with a STR of 7 was overburdened and had a bunch of maluses because of that.

keke

 

[Haplo]

Well, a Vivisectionist "werewolf" type character does seem very potent indeed. 3 max bab attacks per round at level 2, lots of bonus sneak damage (including sneak attack from cloak of winter wolf bite cold bonus, though that is certainly a bug), large mutagen strength and natural armor bonuses (later also dex and con), shield spell and a rich suite of self-buffs (which you could share with infusion discovery).

But the interaction with a monk dip seems buggy. After drinking mutagen, you get claws and bite, but with monk the claws seem to soon (before I finish buffing) randomly revert to fists. The combat animations are obviously very different as well. No big deal, I still get the max BAB bite (with cloak trip and extra cold sneak amplified damage) and also I think the extra flurry attack. Hm, 4 max BAB attacks at level 4, each with 2d6 sneak, free trip attempt on bite and another 3d6 cold damage?

I wonder if vivi feral mutagen with monk dip and progressively better amulet of mighty fists isn't actually end-game worthy. Sure, twf get more attacks late game... But with AB penalties . Not having the secondary attack AB penalty on the free bite (which trips with the cloak) sure is nice. I now wonder if I even need the Fauchard. If anything, it'll be late game before the sneak feral monk combo can be beaten using weapon attacks.

 

[ga♥]

Late game I rarely missed (against Wild Hunts, on hard, so they had +4AC) with my TWF ranger tbqh. So the penalty on the additional attacks shouldn't be a worry. Real problem in my case was not getting hit since my AC was sheeeeet, but with a DEX build this would be better I guess.
I could even pull a power attack, after Pitax IMHO, but I didn't, mostly because feat starved.
Also there's a Sai that's perfect for off hand since it gives +2 attacks per round at full BAB (speding a feat for it sucks, but worth it).

 

[ga♥]

I also wish the game would tell you how many attacks/round you have

 

[Haplo]

I wonder if changing the claws back into fists is a bug and, if so, if might be fixed.
Otherwise could be nice to invest in Dragon Style on this char for 2x/1,5x Str damage on unarmed attacks (with up to +16 Str mod end game).

 

[Haplo]

Okay, so I narrowed it down to changing the natural attacks to unarmed (blunt) attacks when I try to use stunning fist. Also I still seem to attack 3 times per round (but Bite gets full attack, doesn't become secondary). Probably not worth building around this, as it might be patched later.

 

[Yosharian]

Okay, so I narrowed it down to changing the natural attacks to unarmed (blunt) attacks when I try to use stunning fist. Also I still seem to attack 3 times per round (but Bite gets full attack, doesn't become secondary). Probably not worth building around this, as it might be patched later.

Natural attacks and unarmed strike are completely incompatible, it's not surprising

 

[Haplo]

They can be compatible, sorta, with Feral Training, or whatsitcalled. Anyway, the feat is not in the game.
But the interactions between feral attacks and monk unarmed attacks are a little fishy. Got Claw attacks changed to unarmed again, without invoking Stunning Fist btw., so it seems its not that.

 

[Cael]

They can be compatible, sorta, with Feral Training, or whatsitcalled. Anyway, the feat is not in the game.
But the interactions between feral attacks and monk unarmed attacks are a little fishy. Got Claw attacks changed to unarmed again, without invoking Stunning Fist btw., so it seems its not that.

This is due to cRPG unable to programmed in that line in the description that says that Unarmed Strikes need not be a fist. It can be feet, elbows, knees, etc. In fact, it very explicitly stated that you can do Unarmed Strikes with your hands full.

In RAW, you can go full Unarmed Strikes with Flurry and everything, and add natural attacks on top of that as secondary attacks. It is explicitly stated that you can add natural attacks on top of a full attack, assuming the limb was not used in the normal full attack. Therefore, a level 1 half-dragon Monk with TWF can get 3 Unarmed attacks at -4, and 2 claw and 1 bite attacks at -5 (but good luck getting them to connect...!)

 

[Lhynn]

So, the knight kineticist is practically made for valerie. It actually gives her damage and some nifty skills without detracting from her tanking. Earth and Fire seem like the best choice.

 

[Incendax]

So, the knight kineticist is practically made for valerie. It actually gives her damage and some nifty skills without detracting from her tanking. Earth and Fire seem like the best choice.

Air is interesting because you can give her Evasion + Lightning Reflexes + Flameguard (the +3 Reflex and Fire Resistant tower shield). Then she can stand in your fireballs and laugh.

But it does technically detract from her tanking, since you could have gone Knife Master to get AC vs Light Weapons, and sneak attacks with Arcane Protector.

 

[Haplo]

So, the knight kineticist is practically made for valerie. It actually gives her damage and some nifty skills without detracting from her tanking. Earth and Fire seem like the best choice.

This may work well for caster/ranged oriented parties. But won't work that well for parties focused on attacks of opportunity and teamwork combos. Crits 20/x2 mean that a kinetic knight could be on the receiving end of outflank/seize the moment, but would rarely set the combo up.

She could provide weak aoe trips with earth and bouldering whirlwind though.

Edit: supposedly the kinetic blade can't even get attacks of opportunity. So that's really poor for melee oriented combo parties.

I guess I'll pick one kinetic knight level for free access to trip+tandem trip - without 13 Int and combat expertise.

 

[Seari]

Lead blades works with shields for shield bash if anyone was wondering.

 

[Ent]

Has anyone tried out an Elven Curved Blade Rogue build? If you can get 1.5 dex mod damage from using using that it could get pretty silly with sneak attack and power attack.

 

[Lhynn]

So, the knight kineticist is practically made for valerie. It actually gives her damage and some nifty skills without detracting from her tanking. Earth and Fire seem like the best choice.

This may work well for caster/ranged oriented parties. But won't work that well for parties focused on attacks of opportunity and teamwork combos. Crits 20/x2 mean that a kinetic knight could be on the receiving end of outflank/seize the moment, but would rarely set the combo up.

She could provide weak aoe trips with earth and bouldering whirlwind though.

Edit: supposedly the kinetic blade can't even get attacks of opportunity. So that's really poor for melee oriented combo parties.

I guess I'll pick one kinetic knight level for free access to trip+tandem trip - without 13 Int and combat expertise.

The thing about kinetic blade is that it does touch attacks and decent of damage, over 10d6 eventually, so its a really good source for consistent dps, which is what a tank needs to keep the enemy attention on them.
Tremorsense should in theory negate all invisibility.

Also she replaces int with Con for feats, so she could get the expertise feat for example. Water gives her a grease spell and her casting stat is again, Con. the infusions are interesting too, being able to entangle someone for a whole minute or trip with con instead of STR.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Has anyone tried out an Elven Curved Blade Rogue build? If you can get 1.5 dex mod damage from using using that it could get pretty silly with sneak attack and power attack.

Not a Rogue build but I specialized Jaethal in Elven Curve Blades. She's already familiar with Elven weapons and had a decent damage and attack after awhile with one. Her build was a simple Inquisitor build, though, nothing fancy.

 

[Ent]

Inquisitors seem pretty neat. I was thinking of making a heavy armored greatsword inquisitor now that theres a +str +wis racial option to use.

 

[Yosharian]

If you're using Dex, you really ought to dual wield

 

[Ent]

You are probably right - the game basically throws fancy kukris and daggers at you. I'm thinking about doing a knifemaster/monk and building around some of these fancy magical sais I have but I have little to no knowledge on the monk class itself. Is the traditional monk just swapping powers for full will defense? Are the monk powers worth it on their own? Are any of the fancy style strike moves usable if I am dual wielding sais?

 

[Haplo]

I don't think flurry of blows is supposed to work with dual-wielding. Therefore a monk probably shouldn't dual wield.

Flurry is arguably better, as it provides extra attacks at max Attack Bonus (rather then at -5/-10).

 

[Cael]

I don't think flurry of blows is supposed to work with dual-wielding. Therefore a monk probably shouldn't dual wield.

Flurry is arguably better, as it provides extra attacks at max Attack Bonus (rather then at -5/-10).

It works as long as all of the weapons used are Monk weapons. The penalties stack, though, and with a 3/4 BAB, doing that is basically asking for trouble. Flurry only gets the penalties removed at level 11 or so. On top of that, you need a very high Dex to get TWF in the first place, which is bad because a Dex-based Monk is a trap for young players. Generally, you want Wis for the Stunning Fist or Str for general mayhem. Monks are best used as living sniper bullets, tumbling past the frontline to whack the mage in the rear. They are geared that way: extra speed, tumble as a class skill, Stunning Fist that mages are vulnerable to, and later on, SR in case the mage survived the fist. Very rarely would a Monk stand and deliver, and if they do that AND try all those attacks, well, we call it Flurry of Misses.

 

[Maculo]

Am I missing something or does the level 1 spell Grease seem to outperform many disable/crowd-control spells by a large margin? I have a low level Enchanter Wizard (level 6), and Grease seems to consistently knock over enemies and lasts for a considerable duration. In contrast, Hypnotism seems hit-or-miss and short-lived in duration, even with several enchantment+ feats. Hideous Laughter seems decent, but it is single target.

 

[Cael]

Am I missing something or does the level 1 spell Grease seem to outperform many disable/crowd-control spells by a large margin? I have a low level Enchanter Wizard (level 6), and Grease seems to consistently knock over enemies and lasts for a considerable duration. In contrast, Hypnotism seems hit-or-miss and short-lived in duration, even with several enchantment+ feats. Hideous Laughter seems decent, but it is single target.

You are not. Grease is a horribly broken 1st level spell and has been since the 3.0 days. Let me put it this way:

1. It ignores SR. You cast it on the surface under the guy, not on him.
2. Everyone has to make a Reflex save or fall down.
3. If they made the save, if they want to move or do anything at all, they have to make a Balance check DC10. Fail, and you not only not get to move, you must make another Reflex save or fall over. Fail by more than 5, you just fall over, no save.
4. If you made the check, you move at half speed, which means no 5ft move for you and every move attracts attacks of opportunity. If you are still in the Grease area after the move, you make a Reflex save or fall over.
5. Want to double move to get out of the area? Make two checks instead of one (basically 2 move actions). Fail any of those and down you go.
6. Even after all that, you remain upright, if you don't have 5 ranks of Balance (ranks, not check), you are considered flatfooted. How many monsters do you think have 5 ranks in Balance?
7. Oh, and if you get hit? Balance check again or down you go.
8. A prone character is at -4 to-hit for melee attacks and downright can't use ranged weapons other than a crossbow. Everyone and their mothers can shoot you at -1 to-hit or beat the shit out of you in melee at a +4 bonus to-hit. Getting up triggers attacks of opportunity. In other words, you're fucked.

If you are a arcane caster and do not have Grease at level 1 or whichever lowest level you can get it, play something else.

 

[Incendax]

You are not. Grease is a horribly broken 1st level spell and has been since the 3.0 days. Let me put it this way:

It gets worse. Grease stacks with itself.
Drop 8+ in one spot, and even the biggest boss gets hard locked.