Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Cael]

Not really, as it's at -2 AB

But I currently have two characters that finished Chapter 1, can't really decide on which I shall focus and (maybe) finish the game.

1. Strenght based tripping Oni-Spawn Tiefling Vivisectionist (with monk dip for AC and sword-saint dip for fauchard prof. and focus) and
2. Dex based human scimitar Sword Saint (with monk dip for AC)

Both will have shatter defenses for easier hitting of enemies (in case of Vivi also for easy sneaks - even when not flanking). Neither will take Power Attack/Piranha Strike.

Vivisectionist will have worse accuracy but much higher damage per hit. And will eventually greater trip almost anyone, disabling primary threats and causing lots of AoOs. Low HPs with moderate AC are a problem, but perhaps weak-ish Will save even moreso.

Sword Saint will have great AC (and defensive buffs!) and accuracy plus burst damage capability when needed. Better party synergy too, as he can main-tank, so much more freedom in companion choices. Therefore I am leaning towards the latter.

Sword Saint. Survivability for the main character is a must unless you love save-scumming.

 

[Haplo]

That's what I've been thinking also.

Although.. there is something nice in towering over other characters in the enlarged form, attacking 3x per round in act 1, each time for 20-40 damage (more on crit). And late game becoming even more epic via legendary proportions and laughing at puny mortals you crush under your feet.

But yes, surviving is probably more important... and spellstrike SS amplified crits should be quite rewarding also.

 

[Cael]

That's what I've been thinking also.

Although.. there is something nice in towering over other characters in the enlarged form, attacking 3x per round in act 1, each time for 20-40 damage (more on crit). And late game becoming even more epic via legendary proportions and laughing at puny mortals you crush under your feet.

But yes, surviving is probably more important... and spellstrike SS amplified crits should be quite rewarding also.

Play a Cleric if you want that kind of mayhem. Righteous Might and Divine Power combo is pretty broken even without Legendary Proportions.

 

[Haplo]

Cleric doesn't deal sufficiently consistent damage for me in P:K. Power spikes worth rounds per level are not enough for me right now.

Plus as a Cleric, you don't really have feats to spare to spend on all the greater trip supporting feats.

Sure, had lots of fun with clerics in NWNs (even more with druids), but I really like the magus and vivisectionist flavors here. The new classes offer so many opportunities, I'd be a shame not to try them out.

I really like that they are capable of almost sustained operation, dealing reliable damage on par with the martials, while also tapping into powefull buffs and even offensive spells.

 

[Cael]

Cleric doesn't deal sufficiently consistent damage for me in P:K. Power spikes worth rounds per level are not enough for me right now.

Sure, had lots of fun with clerics in NWNs (even more with druids), but I really like the magus and vivisectionist flavors here. The new classes offer so many opportunities, I'd be a shame not to try them out.

I really like that they are capable of almost sustained operation, dealing reliable damage on par with the martials, while also tapping into powefull buffs and even offensive spells.

You haven't played mayhem until you have a played a Cleric based, Bear variant, Weretouched Master in Eberron. Pre-Errata. Divine Power + Righteous Might + Weretouched Master shifting = +30 Str + Huge size (+ a bunch of other things including Con and Dex bonus, DR, and Fighter BAB). Fun for the whole family.

 

[Haplo]

So Archaeologist Bards get Uncanny dodge at level 2? An interesting option with unrestricted alignment for multiclasses with monk, which don't want to sacrifice too many class levels.

 

[Ent]

I just found this +5 dueling sword called bloodhound and I want to make a swordsaint now. I've restarted this shit way too many times.

 

[Yosharian]

I just found this +5 dueling sword called bloodhound and I want to make a swordsaint now. I've restarted this shit way too many times.

If only there was a list of weapons somewhere...

 

[hell bovine]

There is a craft item mod available (still being worked on, so I'd call it a beta, but then again, so is the game ), scrolls, potions and weaponry included:
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/54?tab=description

 

[rusty_shackleford]

are strength builds as worthless in the pnp as in this game?

seems like a glaring oversight to have dex effectively be both offense and defense

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

So Archaeologist Bards get Uncanny dodge at level 2? An interesting option with unrestricted alignment for multiclasses with monk, which don't want to sacrifice too many class levels.

Yep, and at level 5 we get Archaeologist's Luck +2, which is a +2 bonus to pretty much everything, including skill checks. My current build is 5 Archaeologist/4 Rogue/6 Dragon Disciple, and isn't doing too bad. That Luck skill is really nice for moderate to tough encounters, he deals a lot of sneak attack damage and gets nice strength buffs and a 2d6 energy damage bite attack from DD. Specialized him in Dueling Swords and he uses a nice buckler and good armor, has plenty of spells to cast (Heroism, Hideous Laughter, etc.) and is a pretty fun character to play so far. Also gave him Imposing Presence or whatever, basically he can intimidate anybody in the game at this point with huge buffs to his persuasion for intimidate, as well as Cornugon Smash for demoralizing (which is also very highly buffed by high STR + CHA stats). In short, might not be optimal but it's definitely fun.

 

[Yosharian]

are strength builds as worthless in the pnp as in this game?

seems like a glaring oversight to have dex effectively be both offense and defense

There are a couple of issues regarding strength vs dex.

1) Dex is more efficient as a rule as long as you are prepared to find 3/4 of the weapons in the game useless for you, since you are effectively limiting yourself to Agile weapons. There are some incredible non-Agile weapons in the game.

2) Str (which usually means 2H) requires almost no feats. Power Attack and you're good to go. Dex on the other hand requires Weapon Finesse to even function.

3) Then you really need the TWF feat line to really start pulling ahead in terms of damage. Power Attack is just straight up better. Unless you have TWF. So that's 4 feats vs 1, and hefty Dex requirements as well.

4) One key PA feat, Furious Focus, is missing from the game. That limits Str builds' effectiveness vs TWF.

5) There are many excellent spells that boost Str as part of their package. Enlarge Person, Legendary Proportions... The Str boosts here are worthless to a Dex character.

6) Str Power Attack builds are superior to TWF builds at beating damage reduction, unless you have enough Enhancement to beat the DR. Then TWF pulls ahead dramatically.

 

[Yosharian]

So Archaeologist Bards get Uncanny dodge at level 2? An interesting option with unrestricted alignment for multiclasses with monk, which don't want to sacrifice too many class levels.

Yep, and at level 5 we get Archaeologist's Luck +2, which is a +2 bonus to pretty much everything, including skill checks. My current build is 5 Archaeologist/4 Rogue/6 Dragon Disciple, and isn't doing too bad. That Luck skill is really nice for moderate to tough encounters, he deals a lot of sneak attack damage and gets nice strength buffs and a 2d6 energy damage bite attack from DD. Specialized him in Dueling Swords and he uses a nice buckler and good armor, has plenty of spells to cast (Heroism, Hideous Laughter, etc.) and is a pretty fun character to play so far. Also gave him Imposing Presence or whatever, basically he can intimidate anybody in the game at this point with huge buffs to his persuasion for intimidate, as well as Cornugon Smash for demoralizing (which is also very highly buffed by high STR + CHA stats). In short, might not be optimal but it's definitely fun.

Wait the bite attack is energy damage?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Wait the bite attack is energy damage?

At level 6 it becomes that, yeah.

 

[deuxhero]

6) Str Power Attack builds are superior to TWF builds at beating damage reduction, unless you have enough Enhancement to beat the DR. Then TWF pulls ahead dramatically.

Or a Paladin's smite. Paladins are, strangely enough, very good dual wielders in PF thanks to damage bonus and bypassing DR. This is normally sword and board or board and board, but two weapons works as well.

 

[Yosharian]

Wait the bite attack is energy damage?

At level 6 it becomes that, yeah.

Wow. That's great. However: what bonuses get added to that damage? Str?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Wow. That's great. However: what bonuses get added to that damage? Str?

STR I believe, yeah. Same bonuses that would apply to a bite attack. My Strength modifier is +7 so it's nice to have an extra attack for free that does 2d6 energy damage. Combined with the Arch's Luck +2, I'm hitting things a lot more often with it than most would.

 

[jungl]

all the people complaining about the game being gay and hard at later stages rolling around with dex builds and tanks like Valerie. Fastest way to cheese the game is too up your damage been this way since baldurs gate. Use amiri with that buff that hurts ac and buffs acc and damage. Good hope nice but jubilost puts out more damage then linzi.

 

[ga♥]

You can ez TWF using STR as a ranger (imho human, for the feats). I didn't multi to rogue for the sneak attack but I should have.

 

[ga♥]

Dueling swords aren't considered light weapons Kit Walker, so double the -2 on attack, since I guess your rougue with aldori dip would be TWF, or what were you suggesting?

 

[Ent]

Is an enemy considered flat footed when it is denied its Dex bonus to AC through some sort of status aliment or is flat footed only something that happens at the beginning of a combat?

 

[ga♥]

Dueling swords aren't considered light weapons Kit Walker, so double the -2 on attack, since I guess your rougue with aldori dip would be TWF, or what were you suggesting?

Not a TWF but rather a Finesse rogue. The rogue is the only class that can live off of dex builds because of sneak attacks and how they work in this game. If you really put points in Cha, take two pala levels and 1 Scaled fist level, then you have a terrific build. You get Dex2AC and Cha2AC and all the sneak attack dice from the sneak attack increase feat and the neckless. Use a single dueling sword and get that aldori dueling mastery and have another 2 AC + init. The game provides deflection robes and bracers of armor +8 to fill in AC. This way you have good saves (the biggest problem with the Rogue) and ridiculous damage. If you take the thug route, this becomes even more sickening, quite literally, because the rogue now sickens target on *every* hit.

Seems nice... for a tank though with very nice touch AC, single weapon style can't possibly outdamage a TWF or 2H.
Do you even need the sneak attacks?

 

[Ent]

Knife master 4 / Vivsectionist X is pretty crazy damage wise. Going 4 levels of rogue to get the weapon finesse, martial weapon proficiency for kukris and dex to damage along with that debuff on sneak attacks and then getting the spell utility and and scaling power and tankiness from the mutagen pretty much sets you up for the rest of the game as long as you get some items and feat to cover your poor will save.

Flat footed causes dex to AC not to be applied. That is one of the possible conditions (no dex to AC) for a sneak attack. So as far as a rogue is concerned flat footed and denying dex to AC is similar.

I was wondering if being denied dex to AC from any status effect was also considered being flat footed because the Sword saint gets a feat that adds int to damage on flat footed enemies so I was thinking of a way I could get that consistently through combat.

 

[Ent]

So I did some digging and it seems like you can use dazzlingly display + shatter defenses to apply flat footed on enemies beyond the first turn of combat. This interaction won't come online until lvl 13 but its a nice little side bonus you can build towards.

 

[ArchAngel]

are strength builds as worthless in the pnp as in this game?

seems like a glaring oversight to have dex effectively be both offense and defense

There are a couple of issues regarding strength vs dex.

1) Dex is more efficient as a rule as long as you are prepared to find 3/4 of the weapons in the game useless for you, since you are effectively limiting yourself to Agile weapons. There are some incredible non-Agile weapons in the game.

2) Str (which usually means 2H) requires almost no feats. Power Attack and you're good to go. Dex on the other hand requires Weapon Finesse to even function.

3) Then you really need the TWF feat line to really start pulling ahead in terms of damage. Power Attack is just straight up better. Unless you have TWF. So that's 4 feats vs 1, and hefty Dex requirements as well.

4) One key PA feat, Furious Focus, is missing from the game. That limits Str builds' effectiveness vs TWF.

5) There are many excellent spells that boost Str as part of their package. Enlarge Person, Legendary Proportions... The Str boosts here are worthless to a Dex character.

6) Str Power Attack builds are superior to TWF builds at beating damage reduction, unless you have enough Enhancement to beat the DR. Then TWF pulls ahead dramatically.

Not to mention that in PnP you got to carry your shit yourself and going into encumbered territory fucks up your defences while Str characters don't have such problems. Also breaking down stuff (including webs) is easier with Strength without extra feats. Then you got stuff like Shadows that drain your Strength, they will kill a Dex based character much faster. Also Dex based characters need Uncanny Dodge and Blind Fighting or they use their bonus AC way too often. Strength guys just carry heavy armor and don't care.