Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Ent]

Vivisectionist has their dex mutagen giving them the Alchemical Dex bonus and the Alchemic natural armor bonus. After they gain access to lvl 2 (level 4+) spells they also get Barkskin which stacks on the mutagens natural armor bonus because this one is an enchancement bonus. I'm pretty sure a dex vivi can mantain ludicrous amounts of AC even if you don't go for multiclassing and maintain a passable amount of damage due to their attack stat getting really high.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Vivisectionist has their dex mutagen giving them the Alchemical Dex bonus and the Alchemic natural armor bonus. After they gain access to lvl 2 (level 4+) spells they also get Barkskin which stacks on the mutagens natural armor bonus because this one is an enchancement bonus. I'm pretty sure a dex vivi can mantain ludicrous amounts of AC even if you don't go for multiclassing and maintain a passable amount of damage due to their attack stat getting really high.

put some points in CHA and take 1 level in scaled fist(monk) for a big AC bonus
there's also a perk you want to grab with it but I forget what it is tbh

 

[Haplo]

Also you get a full plate within first 5h of the game, you get that +8 bracers of armor and +5 monk robe after 100h of playing it.

Like Yosharian wrote, in Act 1 Mage Armor / Mage armor pots, which are plentiful. In Act 2 you can already find +5 Bracers. Also if you dedicate slots to stack Dex and Wis buffs, at Act 2 you can have +14 bracer/dex/wis AC (I'm calculating base dex 14, more with higher dex) vs +11 full prate +1 dex.
The gap only grows bigger as you majorly benefit from the OP stat boosting items the game throws at you.

 

[ArchAngel]

You forgot Heavy Armor focus feat so that is +1 AC for heavy armor. Also good luck tanking in round one when you are more often flat footed than not (enemies in this game have insane rolls, I am pretty sure RNG code they use is busted) and all the situations where you can also have your Dex denied.
Isn't Int spellcasting stat for Alchemist? Why would you buff up wisdom?

 

[Yosharian]

You forgot Heavy Armor focus feat so that is +1 AC for heavy armor. Also good luck tanking in round one when you are more often flat footed than not (enemies in this game have insane rolls, I am pretty sure RNG code they use is busted) and all the situations where you can also have your Dex denied.
Isn't Int spellcasting stat for Alchemist? Why would you buff up wisdom?

You forgot the Dodge feat, then.

Dex tanking is limited in the first round, but armor tanking is limited against touch attacks.

The situations where Dex is denied can be mitigated.

 

[Incendax]

Vivisectionist is a great class with a lot of strengths. The problem with playing Vivisectionist is that you are playing a vivisectionist again, and are nondescript vivisectionist #438,716.

 

[ArchAngel]

You forgot Heavy Armor focus feat so that is +1 AC for heavy armor. Also good luck tanking in round one when you are more often flat footed than not (enemies in this game have insane rolls, I am pretty sure RNG code they use is busted) and all the situations where you can also have your Dex denied.
Isn't Int spellcasting stat for Alchemist? Why would you buff up wisdom?

You forgot the Dodge feat, then.

Dex tanking is limited in the first round, but armor tanking is limited against touch attacks.

The situations where Dex is denied can be mitigated.

I didn't forget Dodge because it can be taken by both characters so it is not important in this discussion.

Dex thing cannot be mitigated by the proposed Vivi X/Monk2/SS1 build.

Biggest power of Vivi is access to sneak attack and spellcasting, not its defense that is mostly useful in end of the game.
And while that is nice, you solve the end with disable or death spells, not touch AC.

 

[Haplo]

put some points in CHA and take 1 level in scaled fist(monk) for a big AC bonus
there's also a perk you want to grab with it but I forget what it is tbh

You can do this if you want high Charisma for Persuasion checks for example. But your Will save will suffer and Will be roughly 5 points lower. Unless you also dip 2 levels of Paladin for Cha to saves. But then you delay the main class progression a lot (particularly Greater/Grand mutagen and extract progression).

 

[Haplo]

You forgot Heavy Armor focus feat so that is +1 AC for heavy armor. Also good luck tanking in round one when you are more often flat footed than not (enemies in this game have insane rolls, I am pretty sure RNG code they use is busted) and all the situations where you can also have your Dex denied.
Isn't Int spellcasting stat for Alchemist? Why would you buff up wisdom?

Armor Focus is a dedicated tank feat, that's quite expensive for what it offers. If you pick it, it's fine. You've narrowed the dex/wis advantage in act 2 to only 2 AC. End game it's still about 10, not counting the Crane line.
Speaking of which, Crane Style seems to me to be a much better 1 feat investment on a multiclass with a monk dip then the Armor Focus (+1 AC AND +2 AB - when Defensive Fighting, makes the mode much more useful).

As for flat-footed, a Vivisectionist also gets up to +6/8 natural armor. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you're not losing the monk bonus unless immobilized.
Anyway nothing is preventing you from sending a tin can first (if you have one) to draw the initial enemy aggro. That's what I do.

Int governs alchemist extracts, but you don't use any DC spells, just buffs. So theoretically 10 Int wit a +8 Int item (-2 Str mutagen) would be enough to cast all spells. I like to start with 13 for early Combat Expertise & Trip, as well as skills.
Wis offers more: monk AC and Will saves.

 

[Haplo]

Vivisectionist is a great class with a lot of strengths. The problem with playing Vivisectionist is that you are playing a vivisectionist again, and are nondescript vivisectionist #438,716.

Sure, but it does not seem many people are actually playing Strenght based / hybrid Vivisectionists, who are actually pretty awesome.

 

[ArchAngel]

You forgot Heavy Armor focus feat so that is +1 AC for heavy armor. Also good luck tanking in round one when you are more often flat footed than not (enemies in this game have insane rolls, I am pretty sure RNG code they use is busted) and all the situations where you can also have your Dex denied.
Isn't Int spellcasting stat for Alchemist? Why would you buff up wisdom?

Armor Focus is a dedicated tank feat, that's quite expensive for what it offers. If you pick it, it's fine. You've narrowed the dex/wis advantage in act 2 to only 2 AC. End game it's still about 10, not counting the Crane line.
Speaking of which, Crane Style seems to me to be a much better 1 feat investment on a multiclass with a monk dip then the Armor Focus (+1 AC AND +2 AB - when Defensive Fighting, makes the mode much more useful).

As for flat-footed, a Vivisectionist also gets up to +6/8 natural armor. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you're not losing the monk bonus unless immobilized.
Anyway nothing is preventing you from sending a tin can first (if you have one) to draw the initial enemy aggro. That's what I do.

Int governs alchemist extracts, but you don't use any DC spells, just buffs. So theoretically 10 Int wit a +8 Int item (-2 Str mutagen) would be enough to cast all spells. I like to start with 13 for early Combat Expertise & Trip, as well as skills.
Wis offers more: monk AC and Will saves.

Mutagen is only once per rest so not very reliable to use. Crane Style sounds like it reduces your AB for a Dodge boost so it is not a flat bonus to AC (heavy armor tanks can use Combat Expertise as well for this). And if you keep minimum Int for casting you don't get any bonus spellcasting slots.

 

[Hermit]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Haplo]

Well, once per rest is only an issue on tiny maps/random encounters. It lasts very long otherwise. And in those random encounters you don't always absolutely need it.

As for Crane Style, yeah, Defensive Fighting costs 2 AB with it (just 1 AB with all 3 feats). Much better deal then the regular -4 AB though.
As for Combat Expertise, nothing is stopping an unarmored build from using it also. In fact I pick it at level 1 (rarely use it though).

No bonus spell slots, true. But do you really need them, just for buffs? (only self-buffs in my case, but you could take Infusion to buff others too).

 

[Ent]

Mutagen being 10 min per level is more than enough for most dungeons and it becomes 1 hour per level at lvl 14 which is pretty overkill. Also, don't forget that barkskin stacks natural armor with mutagen and also lasts for quite a long time.

 

[Yosharian]

You forgot Heavy Armor focus feat so that is +1 AC for heavy armor. Also good luck tanking in round one when you are more often flat footed than not (enemies in this game have insane rolls, I am pretty sure RNG code they use is busted) and all the situations where you can also have your Dex denied.
Isn't Int spellcasting stat for Alchemist? Why would you buff up wisdom?

You forgot the Dodge feat, then.

Dex tanking is limited in the first round, but armor tanking is limited against touch attacks.

The situations where Dex is denied can be mitigated.

I didn't forget Dodge because it can be taken by both characters so it is not important in this discussion.

Of course it can, my point is that there are +1 AC feats that can be taken by both. It is important in this discussion. Not to mention that Dodge is superior because it leads to other useful feats such as Crane Style.

Congrats, you have ONE feat that a Dex tanker can't use. Guess what, a Dex tanker can keep improving his AC by improving his Dex at a cost of 0 feats, whereas a Heavy Armor tanker can't do that because Heavy Armor limits your Dex bonus to AC severel. Unless he's a fighter, in which case, well, he's a Fighter, end of discussion.

 

[The Avatar]

I'm playing a str-based vivi and it's pretty great walking around gibbing everything in one shot. AC is not as good as Dex based vivi, but damage is a lot more- at least until very late game when dual-wielding sneak attack die gets high enough. I think of the str vivi as a fighter with extra sneak attack damage and some spells.

 

[Haplo]

I'm playing a str-based vivi and it's pretty great walking around gibbing everything in one shot. AC is not as good as Dex based vivi, but damage is a lot more- at least until very late game when dual-wielding sneak attack die gets high enough. I think of the str vivi as a fighter with extra sneak attack damage and some spells.

Let's not forget better defenses and potential crit/sneak/paralysis/cold resistance.

 

[Yosharian]

Mutagen is only once per rest so not very reliable to use. Crane Style sounds like it reduces your AB for a Dodge boost so it is not a flat bonus to AC (heavy armor tanks can use Combat Expertise as well for this). And if you keep minimum Int for casting you don't get any bonus spellcasting slots.

Combat Expertise requires 13 INT, which is absolute shit on most stat arrays for plate users.

 

[Incendax]

Combat Expertise requires 13 INT, which is absolute shit on most stat arrays for plate users.

This is true, but it is FAR more common on the main character who wants the extra skill points.

 

[Ent]

Is the bug which causes bucklers to turn off slashing/fencing grace still occurring?

 

[Yosharian]

Combat Expertise requires 13 INT, which is absolute shit on most stat arrays for plate users.

This is true, but it is FAR more common on the main character who wants the extra skill points.

Pfft 10 or 7 int is optimal.

 

[Funposter]

Is it worth putting a point of INT into Amiri so she can self-cast Enlarge Person and Expeditious Retreat, after taking the level in Vivi?

 

[Incendax]

Pfft 10 or 7 int is optimal.

Optimal for what? You can win every fight, winning every skill check is much harder.
Explorationfag >>>> Combatfag.

 

[Haplo]

Get an item or something. Plus you care so much about 1 minute buffs? Have someone else cast it. If you really want some spells, get True Strike.

 

[Funposter]

Get an item or something. Plus you care so much about 1 minute buffs? Have someone else cast it. If you really want some spells, get True Strike.

Yeah I just found a headband and stuck it on her.