Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Ramnozack]

Turns out going full out chaotic neutral in the matters of state (this is the land of freedom, no taxes for anyone) actually saves your kingdom. Kingdom was already troubled, but now everyone is back to serene.

So, the way to success is to establish Anarcho-Capitalism?

Different people feel differently about same things. Like how people in EU look at Americans as savage brutes because of their gun freedom stupidity.

No we view them as savage brutes because they go around the world like savage brutes causing problems left and right that directly fall onto our lap while they have a sea to keep ill effects of their savagery away. That and its practically third world country outside of larger population centers.

Eurofags are being awfully prickly today. They're just jealous of our turkey.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Charisma is her advisor stat

I never realized advisor skill depends on stats?? Holy shit.

Quoting myself here to bring this topic up again. Yes, you may call me out for being a dum-dum and I certainly feel like one for not realizing the this.
However, it raises quite a few problems. First of all, it means that companions are not created equal regarding their roles on the council APART from alignment. Second, it means you have to keep the entire group on your level which basically invalidates the "only active party receives XP" option. Unless you want to waste even more time training them up later, in a game where time is very much precious. Third, it means you have to hand them stat boosting items whenever you can. Items which I have sold in the past to make mo' money fo' dem programz money to invest into my barony and better items. I know how fucking expensive shit gets once you reach Rushlight.

Well, sort of. Turning off XP sharing isn't really necessary, especially if the advisor stat isn't the character's primary stat (like Cha for Valerie or Octavia), and you get a ton of stat boosting items (although it is nice to get cash for BP from your fat loot). You can also do stuff like, if you don't use Regongar, level him up as a Dragon Disciple strictly for the free Strength.
Training your NPC advisors is really effective, if you do all their training they'll almost definitely be better at their role than your companions are, so you can get away with only doing some training.
Ultimately, your advisor bonuses from Kingdom stats matter much more than your advisor's personal stat bonus in the mid-late game

 

[ArchAngel]

Turns out going full out chaotic neutral in the matters of state (this is the land of freedom, no taxes for anyone) actually saves your kingdom. Kingdom was already troubled, but now everyone is back to serene.

So, the way to success is to establish Anarcho-Capitalism?

Different people feel differently about same things. Like how people in EU look at Americans as savage brutes because of their gun freedom stupidity.

No we view them as savage brutes because they go around the world like savage brutes causing problems left and right that directly fall onto our lap while they have a sea to keep ill effects of their savagery away. That and its practically third world country outside of larger population centers.

Eurofags are being awfully prickly today. They're just jealous of our turkey.

I didn't even register it was your holiday today until this post LOL. You think too highly of yourself.

 

[Chippy]

Damn - they went for the NWN special effects on the weapons that make it look like you're swinging big sticks of candy floss about. It'd be nice to turn the effects off as a feature.

 

[Thonius]

Well during stream they told twitch that they trying to reach people who gave negative for bugs. I mean they ask them to play new version and change review.

 

[ga♥]

New hotfix broke the stash. Can't order items anymore (oldest to newest, weight...)

 

[thesheeep]

New hotfix broke the stash. Can't order items anymore (oldest to newest, weight...)

It never gets boring, that's for sure.

 

[Chippy]

New hotfix broke the stash. Can't order items anymore (oldest to newest, weight...)

My game was doing that, seems to have worked itself out now. It just updated a minute ago if that's relevant/any help.

 

[TT1]

So, how to win that Bald Hilltop fight with a lot of fuckers spamming fear and immobilizing my party?

 

[ga♥]

So, how to win that Bald Hilltop fight with a lot of fuckers spamming fear and immobilizing my party?

Spoiler

git gud

 

[golgepapaz]

So, how to win that Bald Hilltop fight with a lot of fuckers spamming fear and immobilizing my party?

Spoiler

Freedom of movement from equipment, spell, scroll etc . Don't remember fear tbh

 

[Draugir101]

After a month's break I decided to give the game a try again, with the big patch 1.1
Seems 2 new bugs have been added act 1.

 

[Cael]

You forgot the "I descend from a unbroken lines of Pathfinder DMs, and Owlbears are not supposed to be CR(x). "type

I have seen that a lot during the early reviews,like it meant anything.

Cael , comment?

I don't play pathfinder because retarded fanbois, several of whom my previous comment revealed. As i said before: They squeal practically on request.

 

[Thonius]

Game is great but those lantern puzzles are... frustrating.

 

[cw8]

God bless whoever invented Sirocco. Big, small, good, evil, solo, swarms? Into Sirocco it goes. I'm gonna name my first kid Sirocco.

Worked wonders in Pitax. U can add salt to injury by adding a web spell or movement impairing AE spells on top of it, so those high save rolling dicks will have to roll twice to move.
Wonder what would happen if you cast 2 Siroccos on top of each other..

 

[Fenix]

The Autumn sale gave Kingmaker a nice boost to its review score. Not as good as Deadfire (95% overwhelmingly positive), but it went from 57% mixed to 70% mostly positive.

I actually checked this. And. Its true. 94% positive.
This is such bland, banal shit boring game. With zero innovation and piratey teme done wrong.

What is wrong with people?

Because banal shit boring people don't need masterpiece - it's too much for them, they can't value risk, they value typical clishes and tropes and safe play.
They grew up as mediocrity by a system so everything they can and desaire is medioctiry.
~similar to similar~
dancing mice show

 

[vazha]

Lawntoilet a question for you, or anyone else with enough knowledge

Spoiler

I am doing my 2nd playthrough with the aim of boning Nyrissa. So, I actually have to save Tristian (decline).
I am just afraid that in the House Cucktian will kill Jaethal. How can I avoid this? Possibly, keeping Jaethal evil/undead

Spoiler

Do Jaethal's quest to completion but don't do Saving Grace. Jaethal's Jaethal's quest chain will be more complete than Tristian's and she should kill him in the House, not the other way around.

Is it the only way? I actually wanted to do cucktian quests since i killed him in my first playthorugh. What happens if I just tell him to gtfo with the dialogue in the throne room? does he pop up anyway at the house?

pick the super goodly goodie options in jae s questline (dont kill her daughtah), she ll be gone for quite a while but will eventually return as a jehova witness and cuckdeva wont gib her. This is the only way if you are dead set on completing both questlines

 

[Lawntoilet]

The Autumn sale gave Kingmaker a nice boost to its review score. Not as good as Deadfire (95% overwhelmingly positive), but it went from 57% mixed to 70% mostly positive.

I actually checked this. And. Its true. 94% positive.
This is such bland, banal shit boring game. With zero innovation and piratey teme done wrong.

What is wrong with people?

Because banal shit boring people don't need masterpiece - it's too much for them, they can't value risk, they value typical clishes and tropes and safe play.
They grew up as mediocrity by a system so everything they can and desaire is nedioctiry.
~similar to similar~
dancing mice show

Lazy idiots also don't want to read the rules to the game they're playing, so they say "swarms were too hard with my 7 Cha Sorcerer" and leave a negative review.
Kingmaker is full of "typical cliches and tropes," but it's unpretentious. The writing is almost uniformly smarter than PoE, and it doesn't obfuscate basics with DEEP LORE (the only basics it obfuscates are rules and class options, by being bad at communicating these things ).
I think the reason Kingmaker doesn't need PoE-tier LORE stuff to feel so expansive, incidentally, is because so many things are hinted at that you can't change or effect. Compared to Pillars, "hey everything is uncharted - oh wow you charted it you're so great! First guy ever!" "There's no dragons left - oh hey you found one and killed it anyway!" etc.
Obviously Kingmaker has some things like that, sure, but it really feels like the campaign is taking place in a larger world, and that your actions, however impressive, are still only affecting your immediate surroundings. You even meet your Baron peers early on, who have accomplished just as much as you have. Whereas PoE (especially Deadfire) felt like "hey here is a big map for you to play with, PC! Have fun clearing it!"
I liked Deadfire quite a bit, too, but Kingmaker is just a much more game at its core (except for class/race reactivity which I though Deadfire really did excel at).

 

[Cael]

I liked Deadfire quite a bit, too, but Kingmaker is just a much more game at its core (except for class/race reactivity which I though Deadfire really did excel at).

I don't get the whole race/reactivity thing insofar as NPC reactions are concerned. Surely as a peasant, for example, you would be far more reactive towards the fact the guy is your baron rather than he is a paladin or a mage or a monkey's butt? And unless a particular race is particularly hated or loved, surely a merchont won't give a flying rat's arse if a dwarf or an elf or a child-I mean, halfling is buying his dagger?

I said before that I like Targos from IWD2 as an example of good reactivity. You get a comment if you are drow because drow are so hated and feared. You get the option to bless if you have a cleric in the party. And all that, but no one addresses your class or race directly or even really acknowledge them. If you don't have a cleric in the party, for example, you won't even see the option to bless. It flows.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I liked Deadfire quite a bit, too, but Kingmaker is just a much more game at its core (except for class/race reactivity which I though Deadfire really did excel at).

I don't get the whole race/reactivity thing insofar as NPC reactions are concerned. Surely as a peasant, for example, you would be far more reactive towards the fact the guy is your baron rather than he is a paladin or a mage or a monkey's butt? And unless a particular race is particularly hated or loved, surely a merchont won't give a flying rat's arse if a dwarf or an elf or a child-I mean, halfling is buying his dagger?

I said before that I like Targos from IWD2 as an example of good reactivity. You get a comment if you are drow because drow are so hated and feared. You get the option to bless if you have a cleric in the party. And all that, but no one addresses your class or race directly or even really acknowledge them. If you don't have a cleric in the party, for example, you won't even see the option to bless. It flows.

Sure, I don't disagree, but early in the game you're not a baron and nobody acknowledges much about you. You also don't get to talk much to your companions about things you probably should: like if you're a Cleric of the appropriate god, you get little to no interactions with Valerie about Shelyn (she should be rolling her eyes at you all the time), Jaethal about Urgathoa (she doesn't know anything about her goddess, which bothers her), Harrim about Groetus (I don't even know if you get an option to NOT call him an idiot during the part of his quest in the Troll Keep?).
The other thing about Deadfire reactivity I liked (that came from White March) is that you got options popping up in dialogues and book adventures to use class abilities, like casting Chill Fog or Protection from Elements going into a burning house, being able to protect the kid in the duel with a Paladin ability, etc. Not just peasants saying "hi Mr Paladin!"

 

[Cael]

I liked Deadfire quite a bit, too, but Kingmaker is just a much more game at its core (except for class/race reactivity which I though Deadfire really did excel at).

I don't get the whole race/reactivity thing insofar as NPC reactions are concerned. Surely as a peasant, for example, you would be far more reactive towards the fact the guy is your baron rather than he is a paladin or a mage or a monkey's butt? And unless a particular race is particularly hated or loved, surely a merchont won't give a flying rat's arse if a dwarf or an elf or a child-I mean, halfling is buying his dagger?

I said before that I like Targos from IWD2 as an example of good reactivity. You get a comment if you are drow because drow are so hated and feared. You get the option to bless if you have a cleric in the party. And all that, but no one addresses your class or race directly or even really acknowledge them. If you don't have a cleric in the party, for example, you won't even see the option to bless. It flows.

Sure, I don't disagree, but early in the game you're not a baron and nobody acknowledges much about you. You also don't get to talk much to your companions about things you probably should: like if you're a Cleric of the appropriate god, you get little to no interactions with Valerie about Shelyn (she should be rolling her eyes at you all the time), Jaethal about Urgathoa (she doesn't know anything about her goddess, which bothers her), Harrim about Groetus (I don't even know if you get an option to NOT call him an idiot during the part of his quest in the Troll Keep?).
The other thing about Deadfire reactivity I liked (that came from White March) is that you got options popping up in dialogues and book adventures to use class abilities, like casting Chill Fog or Protection from Elements going into a burning house, being able to protect the kid in the duel with a Paladin ability, etc. Not just peasants saying "hi Mr Paladin!"

That is not unusual. Even MotB has about 1 throwaway line from Kaelyn if you are a Kelemvor worshipper, IIRC.

Making reactivity like that is icing on the cake. It is a nice-to-have, not a must-have. But when your cake looks like something sitting in a cow's paddock, no amount of icing is going to help. Instead of moaning about reactivity, I think perhaps you should be a bit more realistic and get the devs to fix the bugs first :D

 

[HoboForEternity]

I think the reason Kingmaker doesn't need PoE-tier LORE stuff to feel so expansive, incidentally, is because so many things are hinted at that you can't change or effect. Compared to Pillars, "hey everything is uncharted - oh wow you charted it you're so great! First guy ever!" "There's no dragons left - oh hey you found one and killed it anyway!" etc.
Obviously Kingmaker has some things like that, sure, but it really feels like the campaign is taking place in a larger world, and that your actions, however impressive, are still only affecting your immediate surroundings. You even meet your Baron peers early on, who have accomplished just as much as you have.

wow this actually sums up my beef with deadfire, especially with the exploration part it doenst feel well executed because of this

 

[Lawntoilet]

I liked Deadfire quite a bit, too, but Kingmaker is just a much more game at its core (except for class/race reactivity which I though Deadfire really did excel at).

I don't get the whole race/reactivity thing insofar as NPC reactions are concerned. Surely as a peasant, for example, you would be far more reactive towards the fact the guy is your baron rather than he is a paladin or a mage or a monkey's butt? And unless a particular race is particularly hated or loved, surely a merchont won't give a flying rat's arse if a dwarf or an elf or a child-I mean, halfling is buying his dagger?

I said before that I like Targos from IWD2 as an example of good reactivity. You get a comment if you are drow because drow are so hated and feared. You get the option to bless if you have a cleric in the party. And all that, but no one addresses your class or race directly or even really acknowledge them. If you don't have a cleric in the party, for example, you won't even see the option to bless. It flows.

Sure, I don't disagree, but early in the game you're not a baron and nobody acknowledges much about you. You also don't get to talk much to your companions about things you probably should: like if you're a Cleric of the appropriate god, you get little to no interactions with Valerie about Shelyn (she should be rolling her eyes at you all the time), Jaethal about Urgathoa (she doesn't know anything about her goddess, which bothers her), Harrim about Groetus (I don't even know if you get an option to NOT call him an idiot during the part of his quest in the Troll Keep?).
The other thing about Deadfire reactivity I liked (that came from White March) is that you got options popping up in dialogues and book adventures to use class abilities, like casting Chill Fog or Protection from Elements going into a burning house, being able to protect the kid in the duel with a Paladin ability, etc. Not just peasants saying "hi Mr Paladin!"

That is not unusual. Even MotB has about 1 throwaway line from Kaelyn if you are a Kelemvor worshipper, IIRC.

Making reactivity like that is icing on the cake. It is a nice-to-have, not a must-have. But when your cake looks like something sitting in a cow's paddock, no amount of icing is going to help. Instead of moaning about reactivity, I think perhaps you should be a bit more realistic and get the devs to fix the bugs first :D

I'd hardly say I was moaning. I just said it was the main thing I thought Deadfire did better than Kingmaker.
In terms of bugginess, I played both games on release, and found Deadfire's bugs to be more annoying - multiple broken quests, and balance went out the window around level 10 when everything became a faceroll even on PotD.
Kingmaker, on the other hand, had lots more little bugs but the only major bug was when it didn't register my choices in the aftermath of Pitax (I got the correct ending slides, though), and combat didn't turn to shit until endgame.
That's not to say the bugs aren't annoying or that I hope they bring things in line with how they're meant to be, like multi-triggering sneak attack.

I think the reason Kingmaker doesn't need PoE-tier LORE stuff to feel so expansive, incidentally, is because so many things are hinted at that you can't change or effect. Compared to Pillars, "hey everything is uncharted - oh wow you charted it you're so great! First guy ever!" "There's no dragons left - oh hey you found one and killed it anyway!" etc.
Obviously Kingmaker has some things like that, sure, but it really feels like the campaign is taking place in a larger world, and that your actions, however impressive, are still only affecting your immediate surroundings. You even meet your Baron peers early on, who have accomplished just as much as you have.

wow this actually sums up my beef with deadfire, especially with the exploration part it doenst feel well executed because of this

It's an advantage of using a tabletop setting because the histories and geographies are so autistically constructed and thorough (whether they're logical or not). Games that aren't based on tabletop are able to do it, too, it's just easier to create that feeling when you have like 100 000 pages of Forgotten Realms or Golarion information to work with.

 

[Cael]

I'd hardly say I was moaning. I just said it was the main thing I thought Deadfire did better than Kingmaker.
In terms of bugginess, I played both games on release, and found Deadfire's bugs to be more annoying - multiple broken quests, and balance went out the window around level 10 when everything became a faceroll even on PotD.
Kingmaker, on the other hand, had lots more little bugs but the only major bug was when it didn't register my choices in the aftermath of Pitax (I got the correct ending slides, though), and combat didn't turn to shit until endgame.
That's not to say the bugs aren't annoying or that I hope they bring things in line with how they're meant to be, like multi-triggering sneak attack.

Better to not talk about it because we don't want them to spend time working on it rather than the bugs. The game has potential, but is badly let down on several different fronts. I'd go so far as to say that it is shaping up to be the biggest "what could have been" of 2018.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I'm just kind of amazed at the amount of content and "stuff" they managed to cram into this thing. Lore books galore, new events in kingdom management all the time including new projects, region upgrades, cool little side upgrades you can make, new buildings that give oddball bonuses like the brothel or black market. Just a lot of interesting little things they keep throwing at you chapter after chapter. I'm in between Act 4 and 5 and it's been a joy, exploring the little side maps for loot and interesting encounters, finding cool loot and stuff to pillage and keeping the kingdom above water while making it better too. I just upgraded to horse-riding ability which I thought was amazing, 20% move speed bonus on the map. Lots of little details added in the game keep it interesting, and there's just tons of content.